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Posted: 9/26/2003 8:16:04 AM EDT
I would like to buy a light and it will primarily be used as a hand held unit. I sell real estate and get into a lot of dark attics and basements. I'd also use it for hunting. I saw an advertisement in a hunting mag about a light (surefire maybe?) that had a blue lens cover that was supposed to aid in tracking a deer? Lastly, it would be nice to have the ability to mount it to the FF tube on my AR, although I really doubt I have a need for that. OK, what light would you suggest, what bulb, where to get and how much $$$? I don't need to land airplanes with it , but I want a tough light that is brighter then my mini mag. thanks for your imput-this has been a great board for learning.
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I would go with the new SureFire L4. It is an LED and provides 65 Lumens for over an hour with an additional 3 hours of useful light. It is small, lightweight and rugged.
[url]http://www.surefire.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/1071/sesent/00[/url] C4 [email][email protected][/email] |
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Looks like a nice model, but it's a little more then I was hoping to spend. Is the LED that much better then the standard bulb? I always wondered which was better and from looking at the price, it appears the LED is better?
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Ask this also on [url]www.candlepowerforums.com[/url].
LEDs are the latest in illumination technology, & are getting better & better. You never need to worry about replacing a blown LED, as there's no bulb to blow. Furthermore, the light itself is regulated, & in layman's terms that means the light will be the same brightness/intensity until the batteries are too weak to function, whereas a standard incandescent light will steadily get dimmer as the power of the batteries is used up. The SureFire L4 is probably a very good choice for you, especially the color filter option (available separately, of course.) Sure Fire products are not inexpensive, but I can assure you you'll get what you pay for. I'd also suggest an Arc LS. I EDC an LSH-P that I added a pocket clip to, & it does everything I need & more. I think the Arcs are one of the best kept secrets in handheld illumination tools. Check them out: [url]www.arcflashlight.com[/url]. |
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get your feet wet first.
contact [email protected] and get a [url=http://www.surefire.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/878/sesent/00]Surefire G2[/url] package for $28.50, or so. Buy some extra batteries for $1.25 each. (Brightflashlites is cheaper than buying direct, and offers as good or better service) Buy a keyfob LED light for minor uses. Play with that for awhile. It's a 60 lumen light that runs for 60 minutes, and it's blinding even in daylight. Small, compact, lightweight, pocket sized. Will blow away a 5 cell Maglite. If that works well, start buying parts for shock isolating the bezel, mounting to the weapon, red filter for nighttime, blue filter for tracing blood. When you find you love it, upgrade to a 650 weapon light and stuff the G2 in the car. I haven't used up a set of batteries in several years, so while 60 minutes of runtime doesn't sound as sexy as the hours and hours of an LED, it's not too shabby and they are much more powerful than an LED. |
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G2 sucks for the car. Had a flat pulled mine out and it had dead batteries... no tailcap disable. [:(]
The differences in LEDs vs. incandescents have been discussed on the first page of this section. If you read the first page or evern used the search function you would not have to ask this stuff. |
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#1 - carry an SC1 spares carry w/extra batteries & bulb
#2 - you can buy a lockout tail cap, but at that point just get the 6P |
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McDuff, there are a lot of GOOD solutions to choose from so you're going to have decide which one fits your needs and your budget.
From Surefire - The L4 5 watt LED that C4iGrant mentioned above is a great light and over a longer term would pay for itself due to the long life LED. For an every day carry (EDC) the L4 really would be a good choice. The fact that the LED's are able to use batteries in a more efficient way means that after an hours use (approx.) you won't be left in the dark like with other lights/lamps. General market price range is approx. $135 +/-. There are couple of negatives that should be mentioned with the L4: a.) The L4 is still not capable of matching the longer range illumination of standard lamps such as the P60 & P61 lamps of Surefire 2 cell lights. b.) The L4 shouldn't be considered for weapons mounted use. Next on my list of EDC lights, any of the SF E2E Executive Elites. The E2e's are excellent for EDC due to their smaller, more lightweight design and pocket clip. [i](BTW, the L4 is built of an E2 body.)[/i] The E2e's offer 60 lumens and a runtime of approx. 75 min. The E2e's do not have the option of a higher output lamp. With the E2's you do have the option of adding either a 1 watt Luxeon LED head (KL1) or adding the 5 watt LED head (KL4) head. The E2's shouldn't be considered for weapons mounted use. General market price range depending upon model is approx. $65 & up. Next would be the full size 2 cell SF lights, in this area you have several to choose from. For general use the C2 Centurion, 6P or G2 Nitrolon will cover most needs. For a combat light design, the C2, G2Z, Z2 & the M2 will cover that field. Considering what your intended use is, I'd probably be looking at the 6P, C2 or G2. I won't go into the details on all these but if you'll jump over to SF's site you'll get an indepth overview of all the lights. What the full size lights have in common is a broad assortment of interchangeable parts & configurations. Also, the 6P & G2 can easily be enhanced for mounting on an AR-15. For the 6P, general market price range is approx. $65. For the C2, general market price range is approx. $70 for the black & $80+ for the HA. The G2 Nitrolon is considered their entry level light but offers all the performance comparable SF P60/P61 based lights. Approx. price is $30. (Concerning the non-lockout tailcap, a simple $10 holster can help prevent accidental activation.) Surefire - [url]http://www.san.surefire.com/cgi-bin/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&sesent=0,0&strfnbr=6&pgname=high_performance[/url] I gotta head out for a bit but later I'll try to fill you in on some of the lights from Streamlight that would be good choices and are lower in cost. |
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Now for the Streamlight info -
The first must have is a Streamlight KeyMate LED light!!! These are really great lights and give off a lot more light than most other LED lights of similar size. IMO this light really out performs the ARC AAA. The only down side is the battery type but they can be replaced for under $2 and battery life is rated at up to 96 hrs. This is an excellent keychain or pocket as it only weighs .9 ounces and is 2.36" in length. You have a choice of blue, green or white LED color (white LEDs have a blueish/purple tint light color). Approx. price is $11. For more powerful EDC lights Streamlight has the following lights you should consider: Streamlight Scorpion (two 123A's) - The Scorpions give similar performance as SF P60 based light but is not quite an equal. Where the Scorpion has advantages is its simple, quick push button constant on/off tailcap switch. The rubber covered body is a big help too, especially if you need both hands free are trying to hold the light with your neck & shoulder or holding it with your teeth. The Scorpion also uses a cheaper lamp that's a 1/3 the cost of SF P60 lamp plus the Scorpion comes with a spare lamp contained in the light itself. General market price range is approx. $30. The new Tactical Light TL-2 (two 123A's) - This is new from Streamlight and is a great light. It is rated at 100 lumens but I feel they over shot that rating. The TL-2 (& NF-2) features an adjustable spot-to-flood focus with a non-protruding momentary tailcap switch to decrease the chance of accidental activation. (The tailcap of course rotates for constant on.) The TL-2 has a removable pocket clip, like the Scorpion it comes with a spare bulb contained within the light and it also comes with an adjustable wrist lanyard. General market price range is approx. $50. Though a little large for EDC, there is also the TL-3 which is simply a 3 cell version of the TL-2. The TL-3 is now a favorite of mine, this light has a performance/price ratio that really makes you smile. Though Streamlight hasn't made up their mind on Lumens rating [i](website says 175 but the prod. packaging states 200 lumens)[/i] this light has near equal performance to the SF 3 cell lights that use the high output P91 (200 lumen) lamps. When the TL-3 is focused for best performance it has longer range performance than a P91. But, when it comes to broad illumination it it's nearly equivalent to the SF P91 but is a little less (no more than 8-12% less though). With all that said, the TL-3 is nearly half the cost of a 3 cell SF light equipped with a P91 lamp AND the TL-3 will give approx. 1 hour off a set of batteries vs. 20 minutes. General market price range is approx. $65. There is also a 5 watt LED TL-3 rated at 85-90 Lumens and cost on it is approx. $110. I was supposed to have a few but unfortunately they were wrongly packaged (had std. TL-3's inside) and so I'm still waiting to try one out. Also new from Streamlight are the Twin Task 1L & 2L lights. The 1L uses one 123A cell & the 2L is a two cell light. The TT's feature both LED illumination and high performance xenon lamp illumination. When circumstances require only minimal illumination the LED mode will provide plenty of light but for more demanding needs a simple click of the switch will activate the xenon lamp. The Twin-Task are available in 3AA, 3C, 2D and the 1L & 2L. General market price range is approx. $25 & up depending upon model. For a full details & specs of the above Streamlight models: KeyMate - [url]http://www.streamlight.com/keymate_info.htm[/url] Scorpion - [url]http://www.streamlight.com/scorpion_specifications.htm[/url] TL & NF series - [url]http://www.streamlight.com/tl-nf_info.htm[/url] Twin-Task lights - [url]http://www.streamlight.com/tasklight_info.htm[/url] |
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Just got a couple of the Streamlight TL-3's from BrightFlashlights.
I had been wanting one of the SureFire M3's for a while but the $180 - $200 price range was hard to juggle on my salary. You can buy 3 of the Streamlight TL-3's for that price. Plus, the SureFire doesn't come with an extra bulb ( TL-3 does )which would cost you about $21 for the spare Sufire bulb I am extremely satisfied with the TL-3's performance and design. Especially for the price. |
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Quoted: G2 sucks for the car. Had a flat pulled mine out and it had dead batteries... no tailcap disable. [:(] . View Quote Why not just unscrew the tail cap a couple of turns? Works fine in my glove box. |
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The M3 does come with both the MN10 125Lu/60min and MN11 225Lu/20min High Output Lamp Assembly.
It doesn't have spare built in like some flashlights to. I guess that SureFire figures that if the bulb goes when in use the operator will discard the light and deploy the backup. I don't think it's fair to compare the M3 to the TL-3 though. It seems more reasonable to compare the TL-3 to the 9P. Al |
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Quoted: Quoted: G2 sucks for the car. Had a flat pulled mine out and it had dead batteries... no tailcap disable. [:(] . View Quote Why not just unscrew the tail cap a couple of turns? Works fine in my glove box. View Quote Probably because it does not have a tailcap disable so that wont do jack and when the button gets pressed after being bounced around in the glove box it burns my batteries dead. What you are describing is a tailcap disable. If you reread my post you will see I even mentioned the G2 has no tailcap disable. |
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I've had a G2 for a bit and I like it. But I was peeved at the cost of replacement blubs. I've been waiting for something else to come out to compete with Surefire. I just recently bought the Streamlight TL-2. I really like this light. It came with a belt/pocket clip and a lanyard. It is just as bright as the G2 (as mentioned before, the lumens is overrated). When focused, it has an oblong circle of light in the middle. The Surfire is round, but that doesn't matter to me. Now, with my TL-2 I can buy extra bulbs and batteries and not have to skip eating for a week to afford it! It is a high quality system that can replace any Surefire if you aren't stuck on the brand.
Just my $0.0002 [:D] |
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Have you actually needed the spare P60 yet?
In my experience, just buying an SC1 Spares Carrier, putting an P60 and six SF123As in it will mean you won't need to replace the P60 in ages, years even. I've never had to replace a P60. Al |
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Hey Brightflashlights, do you sell Surfire's? If so, could you post a link (or anyone else for that matter). I've been looking on line and I appreciate your respondses-might as well buy from you. Where can I find you at?
thanks to the rest of you for your advice. I don't know how I shopped before these forums were available! |
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Yes, I sell Surefire & Streamlight both, and both are favorites of mine.
As far as where to find me, well, it's beginning to look my website may be ready sometime this decade (I'm relying on a couple of very busy friends to build it.) so for now the best way is to either contact me direct at: [email][email protected][/email] Or, if you want to take a quick look at a few things first I have an ad over in the Equipment Exchange - [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=25&t=165056[/url] |
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Irecently purchased a flashlight from C4iGrant. I simply explained to him what my needs in a light were, where I thought I'd use it the most.
He suggested the M2 Surefire. I bought it. Happy as a pig in slop so far. Grant will not steer you wrong. |
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Quoted: Probably because it does not have a tailcap disable so that wont do jack and when the button gets pressed after being bounced around in the glove box it burns my batteries dead. What you are describing is a tailcap disable. If you reread my post you will see I even mentioned the G2 has no tailcap disable. View Quote Well, I did read your post and I know the G2 doesn't have the lock out tail cap. What do you want for $30 [;)]? Still, if you loosen the cap to just before it is about to come off, it is almost impossible to turn the light on without screwing it back in. It works for me, YMMV. |
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Quoted: Have you actually needed the spare P60 yet? In my experience, just buying an SC1 Spares Carrier, putting an P60 and six SF123As in it will mean you won't need to replace the P60 in ages, years even. I've never had to replace a P60. Al View Quote I bought a G2 about 2 months ago to use for work. I have replaced the lamp twice. The g2 does not hold up well to being dropped. I didn't buy the combat holster for it and was just using a loop type holster. It fell out the first time and broke the filament. The second time I just plain knocked it off an ATM I was servicing. I now have the right holster. Quoted: Quoted: Probably because it does not have a tailcap disable so that wont do jack and when the button gets pressed after being bounced around in the glove box it burns my batteries dead. What you are describing is a tailcap disable. If you reread my post you will see I even mentioned the G2 has no tailcap disable. View Quote Well, I did read your post and I know the G2 doesn't have the lock out tail cap. What do you want for $30 [;)]? Still, if you loosen the cap to just before it is about to come off, it is almost impossible to turn the light on without screwing it back in. It works for me, YMMV. View Quote I have never had a problem with the light being on. I have the tailcap unscrewed far enough where it won't be accidentally pushed-on. |
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It's interesting to read about your experiences with the G2. My experience of the Nitrolon models such as the G2 is the opposite! The Nitrolon models better protect the bulb against drops compared to the Aluminium models.
Based on reading other people's experiences of the G2, I think you were unlucky with thoses two lamps. Have you contacted SureFire about this? I would expect SureFire to replace them if I had experienced what you have posted. Al |
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I didn't even consider contacting surefire about it as I just figured it was my own stupid fault.I guess mabye I will contact them afterall.
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If you tell them the truth, they may take pity on you if it was your "own stupid fault"!
Al |
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Problems with LED lights is they lack "throw" (range) and even the whitest "white" LEDs have a blue tint, distorting colors.
The G2 is a nice inexpensive light. The Pelican M6 is a steal at $29.95. The Streamlight Twin-Task is a bargain in the $20 - $30.00 range, and combines LED and conventional technology. |
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Quoted: Have you actually needed the spare P60 yet? In my experience, just buying an SC1 Spares Carrier, putting an P60 and six SF123As in it will mean you won't need to replace the P60 in ages, years even. I've never had to replace a P60. Al View Quote I gotta start buying my lamps where you get yours... I replace the lamp in my 6P (off duty carry) and G2Z (On duty Carry) at least a couple times a year, and go through 8 - 12 batteries a month. My M500 Lamp also recently took a dump on me. |
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Quoted: Have you contacted SureFire about this? I would expect SureFire to replace them if I had experienced what you have posted. Al View Quote Surefire doesnt warranty the lamps. They basically told me to pound sand when I asked them about it. You might get ten years of light, or you might get 10 seconds, its luck of the draw. |
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Quite a few people have said that SureFire Customer Service have sent them replacement lamps for free when they explained that the lamp went duff after only a few sets of batteries. They don't have to do this of course. I guess it may depend on who you speak to and what mood they are in?
Al |
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I bought my father a G2 for his birthday last week -- between the two of us, we own a bunch of Mag-Lites of various sizes, and the little Surefire blows them all away.
I especially liked the nice smooth beam; I never could get the Mag-Lites adjusted without a bunch of dark rings and spots. jafager |
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