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Posted: 4/7/2006 5:41:08 PM EDT
I have come up with a slind designed for use with the new LaRue QD point and a single point QD adapter. I have the materials to make up a few prototypes and am wondering if there is any interest in such a beast.
I'm no high speed guy just a 30yo engineer messing around so I'm just looking for some input. The prototype I have made up is out of 1" webbing using one adjuster, one buckle and two Uncle Mikes QD swivels. I'll have some pics up this weekend. Thanks! |
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You mean for the New Larue QD point and the *ahem* *old* LMT MRP CQB QD point.
I used an IDF sling with Uncle Mike's QD along with an M93B stock for awhile, loved the configuration, but the sling was far from perfect for that setup. SO put me down as interested. |
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comp1911,
I'm interested in one.....and I believe the intereste will grow as more and more of the new LaRue rail get on the market. A couple of suggestions: Use 1 1/4" webbing or 1 1/2" webbing (the standard today being 1 1/4"). The 1 1/2" webbing may be a little more labor intensive as the standard Uncle Mike's QD's that most people are using are 1 1/4". A general rule of thumb, the wider the sling the more comfortable it is (when not wearing armor) and the better it sits / lays (when wearing armor / gear). Another option would be to add a fastex buckle toward the front QD sling swivel, in case the end user needed to get out of the sling quickly (ie. maritime related ops, vehilce ops, etc) Good luck!!! |
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Roger that. I went with 1" because the ITW webbing parts I found were 1" but I also have a sample made with 1 1/2 without the proper adjuster just a slider to adjust the length. I too was thinking the rear attachment would need to be able to fit the different configurations you mentioned. That would not be an issue, just need to source the right parts. At this point I will be able to make up about 7 1" slings with the material I have on hand. I agree with the 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 being better, I'll probably go 1 1/4, I just need to source the parts. Yes, the buckle is just behind the front QD connection. 1" prototype 1.5 Proto without adjuster. |
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Regardless of the QD point on the rail, its nothing that hasn't been done with a regular rail and a mount for years. Is this suddenly going to become popular because Larue put a mount point there? I don't know. I have run a sling that way before, and while its fine, its nothing that really jumped up and did much for me. I do know for a fact that there are some SF guys who like this configuration, because I've dealt with them. I also know for a fact that there are other SF guys who think it horrid, and I've dealt with them as well. comp1911- Give it a try, the worst that happens is that you are out a couple bucks. There are a million slings styles out on the market, yours may be the next great one. There are several other similar designs made, but I can't say as I can even remember who made them. With the advent of Larues "new" design, this could be the next craze, and you may be lucky enough to get in on the ground floor. Goodluck with it! |
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I think you're on the right track here. I tried a normal 3 point but didn't like it because it while it controls the weapon well it controlled the weapon so much that it was in the way. So I switched to a single point and it doesn't get in the way at all which is great, but it also means I pretty much have to hold the weapon in my hands all the time otherwise it flops all around.
In the class I took a few weeks ago, a couple of the instructors pushed 2 point slings as a good alternative so I've been playing around with different options. What I settled on is almost exactly what you've got except that I'm still using the HK hook at the rear. It doesn't get in the way like a 3-point but when I let it hang it is kept under control better than a single point. |
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The biggest problem with a two point sling is the necessity of having it be two lengths at
the same time. To hold the weapon in the proper ready position you need almost no slack. However, to be able to deploy and use the weapon, you need enough slack to be able to shoulder the weapon at the very least on your strong side ( cross shoulder transition would be a huge plus ). Its the 'having your cake and eating it too' syndrome. A sling can't be both short and long at the same time. Other than providing a QD point on a standard two point sling, I don't see much inovation here ( not at all meant in a derogatory way -- just stating the obvious ). But than again, how much innovation is possible with a two point configuration? I think DSG Arms made the most improvement to the two point platform when he approached Ashley from Blue Force Gear and had a custom two point sling made that utilized a 'firing extension'. This showed real innovation and solved the 'having your cake and eating it too' syndrome. Now the two point sling could maintain the weapon at the ready position, and with the flick of a thumb extend the length to provide enough slack to deploy the weapon on the strong side. I am not saying that there isn't a market for your creation. I am sure there are plenty of people willing to shell out some dough for a standard two point that can readily connect to the LaRue QD socket. How you approach it really depends on your goals. If you only plan to make a handful to fill the void while the new LaRue rails become mainsteam, than your work is probably done. However, if you plan to take the plunge ( and its a deep one ), you might want to spend a bit more time innovating to see what areas of the current two point market are lacking and deliver something completely original that improves on feature and/or functionality. Whatever your goals, I wish you the best of luck! And if you find that you are having a hard time sourcing materials / components, don't hesitate to let me know. |
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Thanks for the comments guys. I'll work on getting some samples built and availale for purchase. I'll keep this thread posted.
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comp1911- One thing to think of is how accessible the release buckle is while you're wearing it. Another thought is maybe adding a short loop of heavy bungee cord at some point. Not the entire length, since that seems to make the whole thing bounce around, but maybe a 2-3" loop to allow the sling too give a bit. |
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A friend of mine (an Army guy with lightning bolts and sword on his shoulder patch) uses what I think is the most cobbled together two-point sling, but it works for him.
He uses some spare 1-inch webbing and the adjustable part of a ruck-sack strap. It gives quite a bit of adjustability – keeping tight to the chest when you’re bending over to work and allowing for quick adjustment to a length that you’re able to deploy and maneuver the weapon. He sold me on the two-point concept and I thought about the DSG Israeli type sling. I’m going to try to convert a Wilderness three-point to a two-point. Just some additional ideas. |
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Good thread.
Yes, I didn't think I created some newest and greatest Tacticool sling but I didn't find anything out there that was like it. In fact the 1.5" proto is made from a 3 point Tactical Taylor that I butcherd. |
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Thanks for the good word JTrusty - We liked the IDF Sayaret sling, but the plastic hooks and the velcro on the extension needed imrovement IMO and Ashley came through for us (like always).
I think comp1911 is on the right track. HK style hooks are good for an inexpensive setup, but QD's are a much better solution IMO. We've seen some HSLD units shy away from the snap hook over the last few months... We already have our extendable 2pt and a new single point in production with QD's. Should be out in the next few weeks. On the 2pt we can offer them with rail mounts, receiver mounts (with 3 holes) and buttstock mounts for SOCOM and SOPMOD stocks. Once you have the adapters on your weapon you can run it like comp1911 suggests (which is popular with some shooters) or a std 2pt top carry. Or use 2 of the holes on the DD or new MI 30HD mount for a single point. Easily changed on the fly.
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Ashley seems to keep busy with all sorts of projects, and I think you guys were on track with getting away from the HK style hooks. I've been preaching that for years, but the "HK mentality" is often hard for guys to break out of when they are buying gear. I certainly think there are worse ways to mount up a sling to a weapon, but I feel the days of HK snaps are in decline. Jason made a nice upgrade to his HK style attachments, but I'm not sure there will be an evolution after this for this manner of attachment. |
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No thanks necessary. Its a simple matter of giving credit where credit is due.
Though I agree the H&K snap hooks are the cheaper of the two solutions, I don't necessarily agree that the QD's are a "much better solution". ( This coming from a guy who doesn't often recommend the H&K snap hook mind you. ). The cost is easily two times that of your conventional snap hook and since two would be required you are looking at 30+ for just two endpoints. Coupled with the fact that I have had several SF guys experience failures with the QD's letting go at the most in-opportune moment, I simply can not place my trust in them at this point. I should clarify that I am not pointing fingers at the QD being the culprit. The QD relies on a properly machined socket to work as intended. Until it can be determined that any specific mount functions flawlessly with a QD, I will stick with the webbing/tri-glide combo and snap hook solutions. For the record I should also point out that I don't believe anyone should expect any issues with the LaRue rail socket. It has been my experience that LaRue manufacturers some of the finest parts available for the AR platform. Many of which I run on my own weapon. As has been said many times before, if there is an option, LaRue is the choice.
Field testing and hard use showed that the gate on our existing snap hook was weak. We switched to a stamped steel hook recently to avoid problems down the road. Its the same hook currently in use by Blue Force Gear. comp1911 - The best advice I can give you, regardless what you choose to do with your new two point is to test, test & test some more! If you plan to offer these to the public it is your responsibility to offer a product that will not place your customer in harms way. Once you get your first dozen assembled, give them out to trained professionals who can properly test the product for weakness in components, assembly etc... Keep us updated on your progress. |
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I had a MI QD mount on a old style LaRue set up like that as well. |
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Thanks for the words. At this point I think the few samples I make up with be 1" and come with triglides on the ends w/o the QD. Then they can be adapted to what ever mounting arrangement you want to run. It also eliminates two areas of sewing and a lot of cost associated with the QD swivels. I also have the concern of trusting the QD but we shall see. I just need to determine a length of webbing to make them, get some thread and we should have some samples for you guys to try. |
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i dealt with the problem of needing a 'long and short' two point sling at the same time for cross-shoulder transitions while experimenting with this setup back in 2003:
www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.access.html#mmsm but ever since i switched to a simple strap from the weak side shoulder to my rifle, i haven't used any slings. |
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But haven't we determined we don't like to mount at the "LaRue" point on the fore-end and at the sling plate at the same time? It's almost as sloppy for retention purposes as a single point sling. MM- I've always been a little intrigued by your setup ever since I saw it 2 or so years ago. At that time, I hadn't really played around with slings and didn't know enough about what I wanted to try it. Besides that, your left-handedness in the pictures really screws me up Comp1911- Get crackin' on these things! I'm about ready to cut my BFG sling up even more to make it work and I'd really rather not! |
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I cut the 1" webbing last night, I should have them together by the end of the week. |
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Yea.... like all things AR, its always a work in progress....
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My main beef with the TD mount is how bulky it is. The KAC is nice, but lacks the rear point of the TD. I'd like something as you described for a single point even. |
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