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Posted: 4/17/2020 11:28:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Aimpoint
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Posted: 4/17/2020 11:29:59 AM EDT
[#2]
Why cheap out? Buy quality and cry once.
Trijicon or Aimpoint. |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 11:35:58 AM EDT
[#3]
Used MRO
Used AP PRO or ACO. That’s about all that comes to mind. Can’t really think of a Romeo/Holo equivalents |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 11:37:00 AM EDT
[#4]
Burris XTS if you can still find them:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1008722390?pid=664830 They were made in Korea. Not sure if another company sells them now. They were also sold under the SPOT brand IIRC. There was a good torture test here back in the early 2000's on the SPOT branded model. EDIT: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-S-P-O-T-Mk-III-Review-Torture-Test-Battery-test-stuff/18-253934/?page=1 They do go through batteries faster than aimpoint but it's a solid design. |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 12:13:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Ultradot is made in Japan I believe.
May not fit your definition of affordable. Ultradot (jdtbone link) |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 12:23:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Why do people buy $200 red dots from China when you can get an Aimpoint for $350-$400?
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Posted: 4/17/2020 12:24:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why cheap out? Buy quality and cry once. OP - The Nikon P-Tactical Superdot is made in the Philippines and has some good reviews. They are also out there cheaper than Cabelas. https://www.cabelas.com/product/NIKON-P-TACTICAL-SUPERDOT/2843524.uts |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 12:30:22 PM EDT
[#8]
I hear you. I'd grab an MRO.
I've only got one China optic left. A PA red dot w/rotary knobs. Going to sale it and get another MRO. It's been solid, but I think I'm done with China. At least things I can avoid easily(Didn't care much before all this went down). I've got a Holosun 507k coming, but tempted to cancel. Wish Trijicon would have made a damn RMRk for the P365, G43, Shields etc. |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 4:30:12 PM EDT
[#9]
If you want American, you could always buy a Leupold RDS.
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Posted: 4/17/2020 4:42:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Vortex UH1. It's a holographic sight, but it's made in the states. Can be found used for right around $350.
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Posted: 4/17/2020 6:12:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do people buy $200 red dots from China when you can get an Aimpoint for $350-$400? Because some guns are just for fun. It's hard to beat the features of a $200 Holosun with even the cheapest Aimpoint. I like my Aimpoints too, but many find it hard to justify the price, especially when outfitting multiple firearms. |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 6:16:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want American, you could always buy a Leupold RDS. I just stumbled across this in the last day as I was looking around for a replacement red dot. Leupold Freedom, $279 (including mount), made in USA 
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Posted: 4/17/2020 7:31:11 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just stumbled across this in the last day as I was looking around for a replacement red dot. Leupold Freedom, $279 (including mount), made in USA https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81tT7cWl9GL._AC_SL1500_.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you want American, you could always buy a Leupold RDS. I just stumbled across this in the last day as I was looking around for a replacement red dot. Leupold Freedom, $279 (including mount), made in USA https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81tT7cWl9GL._AC_SL1500_.jpg That 1000 hour-ish battery life though |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 7:59:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Bushnell Mini Cannon $139.49 + shipping at NatchezSS https://www.natchezss.com/bushnell-tac-optics-mini-cannon-red-dot-sight-1x23mm-multi-4-reticle-hi-rise-box-5l.html South Korea listed as country of origin on Bushnell website. 30,000 + hr battery life claimed here https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/bushnells-new-trs-26-the-next-low-cost-red-dot-contender/. I'm not aware of any torture testing, etc. on it and haven't personally tried one. Just tossing it in as a possible option that I've considered due to its multiple reticles and current low cost.
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Posted: 4/17/2020 8:11:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Thanks all, lots of good suggestions
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Posted: 4/17/2020 8:27:00 PM EDT
[#16]
No one is going to mention the Trijicon RMR? You can grab one off of the EE for under $400 these days depending on which version you grab.
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Posted: 4/17/2020 9:56:01 PM EDT
[#17]
The new primary arms advanced red dot with the dial is supposedly Philippine.
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Posted: 4/17/2020 10:47:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do people buy $200 red dots from China when you can get an Aimpoint for $350-$400? Because you’re quoting new Chinese red dot vs used Aimpoint prices. Micro vs micro. Can’t really compare a big Aimpoint to a Micro Chinese. Make both used and it’s $100. I’ve bought 3 lnib holosuns for $100 apiece. Aimpoint h1s are 4x that. That said. I like my DI optical red dot. South Korean and seems durable. Picked it up for $150 lnib. I personally am opposed to bushnell. Their stuff seems mediocre and they can’t keep their lines in one configuration more than a year or two. The Nikon Pdot is a decent choice. As is the leupold freedom dot. A NOTE: vortex and many others have stated. Chinese stuff is everywhere. Even in other nations. Even many other optics made in Japan, phillipines,etc use Chinese components assembled their. Like the leupold freedoms? Assembled in US with components sourced from Asia......wanna bet where? If it was Japan or phillipines try would have said so. |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 11:35:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bushnell Mini Cannon $139.49 + shipping at NatchezSS https://www.natchezss.com/bushnell-tac-optics-mini-cannon-red-dot-sight-1x23mm-multi-4-reticle-hi-rise-box-5l.html South Korea listed as country of origin on Bushnell website. 30,000 + hr battery life claimed here https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/bushnells-new-trs-26-the-next-low-cost-red-dot-contender/. I'm not aware of any torture testing, etc. on it and haven't personally tried one. Just tossing it in as a possible option that I've considered due to its multiple reticles and current low cost. Bushnell mini Canon might be the way to go if you don't mind sk |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 11:40:22 PM EDT
[#20]
save more money and buy american. fuck the chicoms.
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Posted: 4/18/2020 12:07:17 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do people buy $200 red dots from China when you can get an Aimpoint for $350-$400? Oh idk maybe because money is a finite resource and we like to use this resource on more than just one thing at a time. Oh and also the $200 red dot from china out performs the 400 dollar Aimpoint and has more desirable features. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if aimpoint uses chineese components Then we can spend the other $200 dollars on an American company that is actually innovative and makes a superior product |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 12:29:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Affordable.
I personally think every red dot made in the USA is more affordable than any and all Chinese. A MRO can be had for $400 new vs say a $125 Sig Romeo. I am losing a lot more than $275 a day then that one time purchase. Many here have watched their retirements tank or out right lost their jobs. I’d rather use open sights then anything 100% China. It will take a long time to shake their cheap crap but it has to start at some point. Save up a little more or cheap out it’s a little more complicated these days. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 12:39:32 AM EDT
[#23]
I making a similar move by replacing an Olight (that I like) with a Surefire on my HD rifle, but I'm having a hard time finding something to replace my PA Cyclops 1x prism.
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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:04:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Besides Holosun (and I suppose the companies that brand them like PA and SIG), there's nothing with 50K hours battery life that weighs 4-6 ounces and seems to survive torture tests as well as the venerable Aimpoint Micro. Chinese optic quality improved so much in the last 20 years--and maybe it was American companies like Primary Arms that helped drive that market. I feel like they're the best value, and what's more American than getting the most for your money (Capitalism isn't about spending more for less!). :)
Affordable dots not made in China are usually one or more of: bigger, heavier, less robust, with a shorter battery life. But I went from being a "the Aimpoint T2 is the only way to go" guy, to owning 4 Holosuns (my HD gun has a 512C). So far, I feel like I get 95% of the optic for 23% of the price...and I get things I prefer like motion-detection-on/off (which saves the emitter and makes batteries last maybe 100K hours or more while left on). I do lose things like scuba diving with the gun, but I'm not into scuba. VORTEX: short battery life and/or heavy and/or too much tint. Most other brands: too bulky and/or short battery life. The "affordable" Aimpoints: too bulky/heavy The "affordable" Trijicon: too much tint/distortion (for me). |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:46:57 AM EDT
[#25]
The original post doesn't state it has to be a micro dot, so not sure why people are up in arms over the ACO or PRO. Besides, if 3 ounces or whatever more an ACO weighs over a T1 makes or breaks your weight requirements, you might need to rethink your approach to your entire rifle.
I get that some people want to squeeze every bit of value out of their dollar, but to go as far as saying Aimpoints use Chinese internals, or $100 isn't a big deal but $150 is, sounds like grasping. You have a budget red dot that fits your needs and that's great. But the cost difference gap has closed considerably the past few years and if you specifically don't want a Chinese budget optic, you don't have to pay near as much as you used to. Impatience is the number one cause of failure. Save for another paycheck if you have to. Join one of the many online stores that have layaway or installments. Hell, even Amazon will spot you a good optic for $100 a month these days. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 3:49:24 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just stumbled across this in the last day as I was looking around for a replacement red dot. Leupold Freedom, $279 (including mount), made in USA https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81tT7cWl9GL._AC_SL1500_.jpg @Trollslayer Thanks for the link man, I had no idea this thing existed. I may sell my Romeo 7 and fo |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 11:39:46 AM EDT
[#27]
Good info all around. Just bought a few T2s recently but could use some Cheap Japanese Nikon products. I am done with Chicom.
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Posted: 4/18/2020 1:40:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I making a similar move by replacing an Olight (that I like) with a Surefire on my HD rifle, but I'm having a hard time finding something to replace my PA Cyclops 1x prism. Vortex has one with a circle dot reticle. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 1:49:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That 1000 hour-ish battery life though I do not understand why so many people get so hung up on battery life. In this unit, the battery last 1,000 hours when it is on at medium brightness. It also has auto-off and shake awake. So, if you put the rifle down, after 5 minutes it shuts itself off. Any movement causes the sight to turn on at the last brightness setting. So, sitting in the safe (or under your pillow  ), the battery should last a looonng time. Now, if you are constantly, continuously playing with it 24 hours a day,... you have a problem and should get some help. Finally, replace your batteries on a regular schedule, even if they are only lightly used. Always have a fresh, spare battery with the rifle, ALWAYS. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 1:57:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Vortex has one with a circle dot reticle. I'll double check, but I thought I read that their 1x Spitfire was made in Gina. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:04:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Trollslayer Thanks for the link man, I had no idea this thing existed. I may sell my Romeo 7 and fo Thanks for that. I'll add Romeo7 to the list of options for my next purchase. I'm finding it difficult to find real-world reviews of most optics. So much of what's out there as a "review" just rehashes the hype put out by the marketeers. One thing I like about Leupold is their lifetime, no BS warranty. I have heard enough to know they really do stand behind their products. To me, that is HUGE! |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:05:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll double check, but I thought I read that their 1x Spitfire was made in Gina. Is it? I wouldn't know. Is that true of all Vortex products? If so, they are off my list. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:16:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it? I wouldn't know. Is that true of all Vortex products? If so, they are off my list. I think some are made in Japan and maybe Taiwan or S. Korea. Unfortunately, the spitfire isn't one of them. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:28:36 PM EDT
[#34]
More On Battery Life
If battery life is 1,000 hours, let's see what that means in terms of use. If you pick up the rifle and drill with it every day for one hour (yeah, right!), then, the battery lasts 1,000 days. That's almost 3 years. I replace batteries at least annually, so my regimen avoids an issue. If you drive to the range and use the rifle for a total of 10 hours, then the battery lasts for 100 trips. Going daily (dream on!), the battery lasts 3 months. Going once a month, the battery lasts 8 years. Going once a week, the battery lasts 2 years. Now, if you actually have the discipline to actually turn the damned thing off when not in use, all the above lifetimes get extended - they are already long but will get longer. Let's recap what 1,000 hours of battery life means - 1 hour/day, every day = 3 years 10 hours/day, every day = 3 months 10 hours/week = 2 years 10 hours/month = 8 years My mixed use - 1 hour/month for maintenance + 10 hours/ 2 months at the range = 6 hours/month average =>> battery life = 13 years |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:40:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Used, buy used.
EE is where you will find them. Aimpoint M2s should be cheap enough. Military tough, battery good for 1 year if left on. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:44:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it? I wouldn't know. Is that true of all Vortex products? If so, they are off my list. Not all but most. There higher end stuff usually isn't China. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 8:58:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Ultradots are made in Japan. Tough little sights in a variety of models.
http://www.ultradotusa.com/ JDJ used to recommend them for use on their hard-recoiling hand cannons. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 9:29:27 PM EDT
[#38]
FPNI
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Posted: 4/18/2020 10:29:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ultradots are made in Japan. Tough little sights in a variety of models. http://www.ultradotusa.com/ JDJ used to recommend them for use on their hard-recoiling hand cannons. These are also very light in weight - 3.9 to 5.3 ounces. UltraDot 6 Offers 6 reticles: 2, 4, 6, 8 MOA dot, a circle dot and a circle dot with cross hairs Specifications: Tube Diameter: 30mm Field of View: Unlimited Windage/Elevation Adjustments: 1/2 MOA per click Dot Size: 2, 4, 6, 8 MOA / 2 Reticles Dot Brightness Adjustment: 11 Settings / Click Length: 5.1 Inches Battery: 3v Lithium CR2032 Battery Life: 20 - 4,000 Hours Weight: 5.3oz Parallax Free @ 50m |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 5:06:11 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not understand why so many people get so hung up on battery life. In this unit, the battery last 1,000 hours when it is on at medium brightness. It also has auto-off and shake awake. So, if you put the rifle down, after 5 minutes it shuts itself off. Any movement causes the sight to turn on at the last brightness setting. So, sitting in the safe (or under your pillow ), the battery should last a looonng time. Now, if you are constantly, continuously playing with it 24 hours a day,... you have a problem and should get some help. Finally, replace your batteries on a regular schedule, even if they are only lightly used. Always have a fresh, spare battery with the rifle, ALWAYS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That 1000 hour-ish battery life though I do not understand why so many people get so hung up on battery life. In this unit, the battery last 1,000 hours when it is on at medium brightness. It also has auto-off and shake awake. So, if you put the rifle down, after 5 minutes it shuts itself off. Any movement causes the sight to turn on at the last brightness setting. So, sitting in the safe (or under your pillow ), the battery should last a looonng time. Now, if you are constantly, continuously playing with it 24 hours a day,... you have a problem and should get some help. Finally, replace your batteries on a regular schedule, even if they are only lightly used. Always have a fresh, spare battery with the rifle, ALWAYS. -1000 Hour Battery life for a 1 MOA red dot is out-dated and archaic. -Might work for home defense, but Auto shutoff/auto on won't matter if it's on a truck gun. It mind as well be always on. If I'm going to drop money on something that is worth 70% of an Aimpoint Pro, you bet I want modernized and innovative features such as a battery life over 10,000+ hours at least. If it can't compete with a 20 year old Comp M2's specs, I don't want it. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 5:11:32 AM EDT
[#41]
The Bushnell Tac Optic Red Dot is MSRP at $300. Bushnell has it marked down to $150 with free fedex ground, and Natchez has it cheaper *but $10 shipping*.
It does indeed seem to be made in Korea, and look at the mount too it looks heavy duty. Nice crossbolt instead of a wimpy bolt seen on Holosun/Vortex/Older Primary Arms mounts   Its supposed to have a T1 Base, but seems sturdy enough, huge plus that it's durable out of the box. Also looks like the diameter is 23mm, a MRO is 25 in the front as a comparison. Should be between a t1 and MRO BUSHNELL TAC OPTICS RED DOT - Mini Cannon - 1X25 • (4) reticle options at a push of a button • 1 MOA click value • Extended battery life (over 30000 hrs.) • (8) Adjustable brightness settings • Waterproof & shockproof • Wt.: 7.4 oz. • Length: 3" Ah hell, ordered one. Will report when it arrives. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 5:11:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Bushnell Tac Optic Red Dot is MSRP at $300. Bushnell has it marked down to $150 with free fedex ground, and Natchez has it cheaper *but $10 shipping*. It does indeed seem to be made in Korea, and look at the mount too it looks heavy duty. Nice crossbolt instead of a wimpy bolt seen on Holosun/Vortex/Older Primary Arms mounts https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/74EAAOSwqMteUu7I/s-l1600.jpg https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-rk4zcah9rr/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/6939/11269/b3__40133.1541452425.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on Its supposed to have a T1 Base, but seems sturdy enough, huge plus that it's durable out of the box. Also looks like the diameter is 23mm, a MRO is 25 in the front as a comparison. Should be between a t1 and MRO Ah hell, ordered one. Will report when it arrives. Quote HistoryQuoted: The Bushnell Tac Optic Red Dot is MSRP at $300. Bushnell has it marked down to $150 with free fedex ground, and Natchez has it cheaper *but $10 shipping*. It does indeed seem to be made in Korea, and look at the mount too it looks heavy duty. Nice crossbolt instead of a wimpy bolt seen on Holosun/Vortex/Older Primary Arms mounts https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/74EAAOSwqMteUu7I/s-l1600.jpg https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-rk4zcah9rr/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/6939/11269/b3__40133.1541452425.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on Its supposed to have a T1 Base, but seems sturdy enough, huge plus that it's durable out of the box. Also looks like the diameter is 23mm, a MRO is 25 in the front as a comparison. Should be between a t1 and MRO BUSHNELL TAC OPTICS RED DOT - Mini Cannon - 1X25 • (4) reticle options at a push of a button • 1 MOA click value • Extended battery life (over 30000 hrs.) • (8) Adjustable brightness settings • Waterproof & shockproof • Wt.: 7.4 oz. • Length: 3" Ah hell, ordered one. Will report when it arrives. Best I recall, the MRO is 35mm... |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 6:04:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Best I recall, the MRO is 35mm... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Bushnell Tac Optic Red Dot is MSRP at $300. Bushnell has it marked down to $150 with free fedex ground, and Natchez has it cheaper *but $10 shipping*. It does indeed seem to be made in Korea, and look at the mount too it looks heavy duty. Nice crossbolt instead of a wimpy bolt seen on Holosun/Vortex/Older Primary Arms mounts https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/74EAAOSwqMteUu7I/s-l1600.jpg https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-rk4zcah9rr/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/6939/11269/b3__40133.1541452425.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on Its supposed to have a T1 Base, but seems sturdy enough, huge plus that it's durable out of the box. Also looks like the diameter is 23mm, a MRO is 25 in the front as a comparison. Should be between a t1 and MRO BUSHNELL TAC OPTICS RED DOT - Mini Cannon - 1X25 • (4) reticle options at a push of a button • 1 MOA click value • Extended battery life (over 30000 hrs.) • (8) Adjustable brightness settings • Waterproof & shockproof • Wt.: 7.4 oz. • Length: 3" Ah hell, ordered one. Will report when it arrives. Best I recall, the MRO is 35mm... Ah I searched on Google, it said the Objective was 25. I don't remember it being huge as 35mm. Coulda swore it was 25mm front, 20mm rear ocular? Also maybe it's just me, but it sorta looks like the body on the Bushnell might be forged. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 10:03:46 PM EDT
[#44]
I was goin to buy holosun for my my pistol build but #&@# that. I'll buy another trijicon before I fund a china company.
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Posted: 4/19/2020 10:41:08 PM EDT
[#45]
I was looking into the Bushnell more, and the resemblance to the Korean made DI Optical SP1 is uncanny, atleast the mount and battery cover look exactly the same.
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Posted: 4/19/2020 11:10:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Meprolight is Israeli I believe.
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Posted: 4/19/2020 11:41:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was looking into the Bushnell more, and the resemblance to the Korean made DI Optical SP1 is uncanny, atleast the mount and battery cover look exactly the same. Been considering the DI Optical prism dot, but man the reviews seem to be all over the place. No matter where I look I see no decent replacement for the Cyclops 1x prism other than the Spitfire, which is also China made. May have to either see about getting my astigmatism fixed with Lasik (which scares me)w, or just make the Cyclops my one exception to my new rule. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 11:50:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Been considering the DI Optical prism dot, but man the reviews seem to be all over the place. No matter where I look I see no decent replacement for the Cyclops 1x prism other than the Spitfire, which is also China made. May have to either see about getting my astigmatism fixed with Lasik (which scares me)w, or just make the Cyclops my one exception to my new rule. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was looking into the Bushnell more, and the resemblance to the Korean made DI Optical SP1 is uncanny, atleast the mount and battery cover look exactly the same. Been considering the DI Optical prism dot, but man the reviews seem to be all over the place. No matter where I look I see no decent replacement for the Cyclops 1x prism other than the Spitfire, which is also China made. May have to either see about getting my astigmatism fixed with Lasik (which scares me)w, or just make the Cyclops my one exception to my new rule. DI Optical seems to have bailed from the U.S. Market. I don't think they did too well with advertising. Theres also the name "Dongs In Optical"  Everythings outa stock/discontinued. The products were pretty nice, there just wasnt much presence and customer service.
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Posted: 4/19/2020 11:55:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Anyone know if the US Optics DRS is made in China or just components?
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:14:21 AM EDT
[#50]
My Meprolight RDS PRO V2 is made in Israel. Good enough for the IDF is good enough for me. It has an Eotech type reticle as well.
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