User Panel
Posted: 9/11/2018 12:36:58 PM EDT
I've always been a big believer in red dot for anything in a self defense/HD/zombie gun, and LPVO for anything you would use for 100-400 yards or so. I'm reconsidering that currently. To my, my HD/bug out rifle is the one that I'll grab if the alarm goes off, looters roll in, etc. But this weekend I had my fold up 300BO SBR with Primary Arms micro dot in a bag for a weekend trip to a lake cabin. There was a deer about 110 yards out, and with the dot there was no way for me to determine if I was holding over vitals or a shoulder, let alone the neck shot everyone claims to make on this site. Since the doe was not a threat I was just looking, but made me really consider switching over to a variable.
I'm thinking I would like to be able to see someone's hands or distinguish what they are holding. It also seems like I would have a better chance at IDing a target if needed. anyone else come to the same conclusion? Coming up with a pros/cons list the major cons I see are weight, and price. Am I missing anything? I already own a Trijicon tr24, but would have to pull it off my 3 gun rifle, thus admitting to myself I don't really compete anymore |
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The TR24 is the ultimate go bag optic. Light weight, very durable and it does not require batteries
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I take heavily into consideration what would constitute justification of lethal force.
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What he said. If you are that far away, you are not justified. Stay with the red dot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Vote: stay w/ dot.
6” MPBR zero to bottom of the dot using lower edge of silhouette target. Flip up rear peep (I prefer the night peep) for traditional markensmanship shooting (vs reflex shooting) to assist dot clarity. Gtg |
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Pretty sure he's plenty justified to shoot a deer at 110 yards. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I take heavily into consideration what would constitute justification of lethal force. If you are that far away, you are not justified. Stay with the red dot. I'm thinking I would like to be able to see someone's hands or distinguish what they are holding. It also seems like I would have a better chance at IDing a target if needed. Really? Sounds to me like an HD use to me unless he wants it to use it in various ways but for HD I prefer a RDS. |
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Coming up with a pros/cons list the major cons I see are weight, and price. Am I missing anything? View Quote battery life |
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Really? Sounds to me like an HD use to me unless he wants it to use it in various ways but for HD I prefer a RDS. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Really? Sounds to me like an HD use to me unless he wants it to use it in various ways but for HD I prefer a RDS. There was a deer about 110 yards out, and with the dot there was no way for me to determine if I was holding over vitals or a shoulder, let alone the neck shot everyone claims to make on this site |
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Quoted: View Quote yes it's texas, there is some wide open space. and pointing a handgun at me at 100 yards would be justified for lethal force. I also don't want to fail at target identifying like a police officer has been in the news for around here recently. |
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while I disagree, I am curious how many times you'll try and sneak it into the thread... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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TA33 is the ultimate general purpose scope available today. Seriously though, no magnification lever to mess with, generous eyebox and eye relief, not enough magnification to impede speed up close but enough for decent use out to medium range. The Leupold D-EVO concept is better, but for now the form factor is a bit lacking. |
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IMO, the 4x ACOGs are better than the TA33. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Limited eye relief and narrow eyebox make them a little more difficult to use up close in my opinion. The wider field of view does make it better at range though. View Quote |
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What he said. If you are that far away, you are not justified. Stay with the red dot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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That’s why the TA11 is better than the 33 or the 31! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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for a true SHTF you can't beat trit/fiber.
All batteries passively self discharge in storage, without battery manufacturers all batteries are going to be dead are going to decay within approximately 10 years or so due to shelf life. One of the trit/fiber LPVs would be a great shtf choice. If you're a bit more richblooded an ACOG with offset/piggyback RMR would also be cool. |
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for a true SHTF you can't beat trit/fiber. All batteries passively self discharge in storage, without battery manufacturers all batteries are going to be dead are going to decay within approximately 10 years or so due to shelf life. One of the trit/fiber LPVs would be a great shtf choice. If you're a bit more richblooded an ACOG with offset/piggyback RMR would also be cool. View Quote |
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I've been in Cartel ravaged parts of Mexico and still found CR2032s and lithium AAs and AAAs. CR123s are scarce down there. I'm not worried about battery availability in SHTF.
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Quoted: True SHTF I don’t think 8 years in you’re thinking about how grateful you are to have tritium. Realistically I think weight, proficiency, and quality are going to get you started well before worrying about your Aimpoint shutting off in three years View Quote If a Vortex Razor 1-6 runs out of battery I still have a completely functional scope, minus a feature. I'm not saying one is better than the other for SHTF, just pointing out a difference. |
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If you survive 3/5/10 years into a period where things are so bad you cannot find batteries, you will have other, larger problems than accurately shooting a rifle.
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sorry all, for me when I say SHTF in this context I'm talking about shorter term. Like a home invader, a coyote stole my child, I'm leaving the house for a hurricane. I'm leaning towards something like my TR24 since it works as a red dot and can zoom like a scope. I don't love the fixed magnification like 3 or 4x. I have tried the "near 1x" like a 1.5 trijicon and I was honestly slower than I was without, it messes my brain up.
I'm thinking what I'm leaning towards doing is a Mini recci? is that right? something under 16" barrel so it's handy but with a 1-x on it so I can zoom if needed. is that the right terminology? |
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If you survive 3/5/10 years into a period where things are so bad you cannot find batteries, you will have other, larger problems than accurately shooting a rifle. View Quote |
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I vote TR24. I have a primary arms red dot, but I question how accurate I can be with astigmatism and no glasses. If I had the money I'd get TR24.
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sorry all, for me when I say SHTF in this context I'm talking about shorter term. Like a home invader, a coyote stole my child, I'm leaving the house for a hurricane. I'm leaning towards something like my TR24 since it works as a red dot and can zoom like a scope. I don't love the fixed magnification like 3 or 4x. I have tried the "near 1x" like a 1.5 trijicon and I was honestly slower than I was without, it messes my brain up. I'm thinking what I'm leaning towards doing is a Mini recci? is that right? something under 16" barrel so it's handy but with a 1-x on it so I can zoom if needed. is that the right terminology? View Quote |
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Target engagement liability and target identification are two different things.
Even if I were not justified in shooting a man at 100 yards, being able to see what is in his hands, or see him at all if he's using some concealment, justifies the magnification. |
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Or just run a 3x-6x magnifier with a fts mount. I use a Vortex UH-1 with a G33 and couldn't be happier.
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Not terribly heavy,23 oz. Less than a Razor 1-6 with a mount. Magnifier can be removed for HD and thrown on for longer shots etc. Since Photobucket went down I don't know how to upload pics.
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I prefer lpvo with a Battery illuminated reticle over red dots and tritium for my go to rifles.
With regards to Battery life the lvpo doesn’t require batteries to function. Plus a red dot on a medium setting to achieve a 50k Battery life gets washed out indoors when you activate a weapons light. Lvpo do not have a bluish tint on the lenses. This makes shooting at low light easier. With regards to parallax and awkward shooting postions. Watch the sage dynamics video. Inside of a 100 yards it’s not that much off. When it comes to batteries vs tritium. Batteries have a shelf life 10 years. Tritium has a half life of 12 years. So if a major long term event happens tomorrow I have 10 years of Battery in theory. A tr24 tr33 tr31 will have about 12 years that is of the optic was purchased the day before and was manufactured a few months prior. Now if the that optic sat on the shelf for a year and was purchased 5 years ago the tritium life is shorter. What happens if your acog is at Trijicon getting the tritium replaced when you need it. The one thing acog is still king of is durability well next to iron sights that is. I just like that I can shoot upclose as fast as a red dot and throw a lever and shoot accurately at distance if needed. Plus the field of view is better than a red dot as has a better reticle |
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EXPS-3 for me. doesn't have the astigmatism issues that the T-1/2 give me, and I can still passively aim through the sight with a PVS14. If I need magnification, Ill add a magnifier behind it, but my priority with all optics for the last 5 years has been compatibility with my NV.
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Not terribly heavy,23 oz. Less than a Razor 1-6 with a mount. Magnifier can be removed for HD and thrown on for longer shots etc. Since Photobucket went down I don't know how to upload pics. View Quote |
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Quoted: Pics? That's a combo I haven't heard people talk about much, but given the reticle design, seems reasonable. Kinda heavy though, eh? View Quote http://imgur.com/gallery/28n8yMc http://imgur.com/gallery/5KvOziT http://imgur.com/gallery/GIT2Ds5 |
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Right around what most LPVOs weigh in a mount too. I liked my Eotech + G33 setup which came out to be only 22 oz, but I found myself wanting holdover markers. View Quote |
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Right around what most LPVOs weigh in a mount too. I liked my Eotech + G33 setup which came out to be only 22 oz, but I found myself wanting holdover markers. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Not terribly heavy,23 oz. Less than a Razor 1-6 with a mount. Magnifier can be removed for HD and thrown on for longer shots etc. Since Photobucket went down I don't know how to upload pics. |
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Quoted: I think the Leupold D-EVO is the best solution to the problem in that regard. Not having to move your head,adjust cheekweld,or rotate a power ring are all positives. View Quote I'm wondering if Leupold is thinking about making a dual optic type thing with the devo and a red dot. |
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I had my eyes adjusted to 20/15 with LASIK. I mean my eyes are damn good. That is the best $3k I ever spent.
I can see so well that for any self defense purpose I cannot imagine needing any magnification at all. |
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I like my Vortex Razor 1x6.
On 1x with the illuminated dot on the reticle cross hairs I can shoot two eyes open just like a red dot. Amazing what you can hit at distance on 6x I have red dots on a few firearms but on my AR for serious work, from 3gun to defense to hunting, I like a 1x6 with illuminated reticle. It's good for anything from room distance to 600 yards. For me a dedicated red dot covers too much of a target beyond 50 yards for accuracy work. |
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I've always been a big believer in red dot for anything in a self defense/HD/zombie gun, and LPVO for anything you would use for 100-400 yards or so. I'm reconsidering that currently. To my, my HD/bug out rifle is the one that I'll grab if the alarm goes off, looters roll in, etc. But this weekend I had my fold up 300BO SBR with Primary Arms micro dot in a bag for a weekend trip to a lake cabin. There was a deer about 110 yards out, and with the dot there was no way for me to determine if I was holding over vitals or a shoulder, let alone the neck shot everyone claims to make on this site. Since the doe was not a threat I was just looking, but made me really consider switching over to a variable. I'm thinking I would like to be able to see someone's hands or distinguish what they are holding. It also seems like I would have a better chance at IDing a target if needed. anyone else come to the same conclusion? Coming up with a pros/cons list the major cons I see are weight, and price. Am I missing anything? I already own a Trijicon tr24, but would have to pull it off my 3 gun rifle, thus admitting to myself I don't really compete anymore View Quote Optics are personal. Buy quality and buy what you like, are my only two lines of advice given what you're telling me. |
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TA33 is the ultimate general purpose scope available today. View Quote Aimpoint has that distinction... |
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