I thought I wanted either an eotech or a tripower.  Why, I'm not sure, I just did.  But I got a chance to fondle them all today and look through them.  I was really glad I did.

The Acog was a TA31 I believe.  The didn't have it marked on the tag.  It was the chevron 4x with the stadia lines for range estimation.  It was very very very nice.  And they wanted $ 1250.00 for it.  This seems like it would be probably closest to what I wanted if it was like a 2 power or 2.5.  The 4 just seems a little hairy for CQB but with some practice would probably be adequate.  And obviously very good for longer range.  But I am not ready to shell out that kind of money for what for me is mostly a hobby.

The eotech I was really not liking.  I could see why people like it, and I don't know if this one was messed up, but that thing was like looking at a wreath of roses and I just didn't like it.  I could see how it would be fast though.  I wanted to like it because it's more in the price that I could afford.

The tripower was cool but for me that dang chevron looks like 2 chevrons.  I had the same thing with the reflex when I looked through it at a place last week. I don't know if they're supposed to do that or not but it does for me.  And it seems nice but it's not as nice to me as the

Aimpoint.  I didn't want to like it.  But to me it stood out as the lightest, best to look through and fastest one.  And I think I need to eventually get one.  This one was the new one with NV capable (like I care), and the 2 moa dot.  The dot was a hair on the small size but to me but nevertheless I liked it very much.  It seemed like I may like the 4 moa better but this one would probably do fine too.  

I know everyone else has their opinions, and might not be the same as mine.  But if I had a point it would be that before buying, definitely go look at.  It would be really cool if I could shoot with them all before buying and maybe I'll start looking around at the range and asking to try out.  I haven't seen too many acogs at the range though.  The acog is very nice.  But for my current AR my mission is for 0-200 yards being the most used range, and I'm sure the 4x would really help at 200 but it seems it would make it slower at CQB.  

But overall my assumptions of what I would like the most were turned upside down and it was a very helpful visit to the gun store.  See they can be good for something!  So I bought a mag from them.  A used sanchez for $ 20.  They were selling new GI ones for $ 30 and I told them they were high but he said he didn't care.  Oh well, I still bought one.  

Take it for what it's worth

ACOG's BAC needs training to use effectively, I can be pretty fast in CQB with it, but wasn't always as proficient.  If I were to get the new ELCAN or S&B Short Dot, I believe I'd leave it at 4X all the time, in which case I'd just stick with my TA31F.
I have two Aimpoints and an EOTech, none of them see much use, my ACOGs are getting beat up from usage

Good Observations....

I came to the same conclusion years ago. nothing like a plain old simple dot with a long battery life...
I would love a ACOG, but for my needs, it's to much cash and is not the best tool for my needs.

EOtech's are nice, but I thought the same thing with the pixalated reticle and I did not care for it.
Speed between the Aimpoint and EoTech is pointless to argue because the slight difference anyone thinks their are between the two are still smaller then the differnce between shooting skills of individuals. for me it was Battery life and reticle design and speed. That was my criteria that I used along with my operating range.

The rest of the optics I never wasted my time with  because they never exceed  or even equaled the Aimpoint/EOtech's as far as i was concerned. I need a Optic that can put bullets where I want out to 300m with the majority of  that need being in the 50yd range or closer and with great speed. So for me the conclusion was and always has been a Aimpoint.

I always felt that my need was covered by Aimpoints or EOtechs and comes down to individual user preference and experience and nothing else......

"The eotech I was really not liking. I could see why people like it, and I don't know if this one was messed up, but that thing was like looking at a wreath of roses and I just didn't like it. I could see how it would be fast though. I wanted to like it because it's more in the price that I could afford.

The tripower was cool but for me that dang chevron looks like 2 chevrons. I had the same thing with the reflex when I looked through it at a place last week. I don't know if they're supposed to do that or not but it does for me. And it seems nice but it's not as nice to me as the"


Obviously you were focusing on reticles.  If you look at a target 20-50yds away the reticles are clear.  The reason you weren't liking them is common- user error.

To me the simple fact that the Army zeros at 25meters and Aimpoints aren't paralax free to 50 makes the decision simple. You won't get a good aimpoint zero without shooting 50yds which isn't going to happen unless you zero in the field.  

Quoted: "The eotech I was really not liking. I could see why people like it, and I don't know if this one was messed up, but that thing was like looking at a wreath of roses and I just didn't like it. I could see how it would be fast though. I wanted to like it because it's more in the price that I could afford. The tripower was cool but for me that dang chevron looks like 2 chevrons. I had the same thing with the reflex when I looked through it at a place last week. I don't know if they're supposed to do that or not but it does for me. And it seems nice but it's not as nice to me as the" Obviously you were focusing on reticles.  If you look at a target 20-50yds away the reticles are clear.  The reason you weren't liking them is common- user error. To me the simple fact that the Army zeros at 25meters and Aimpoints aren't paralax free to 50 makes the decision simple. You won't get a good aimpoint zero without shooting 50yds which isn't going to happen unless you zero in the field.

Well look, I did look beyond the target.  As I did when I looked at the reflex.  The times that it didn't look crisp is when I was looking at the target not the optic.  With the reflex, if I focused on the reticle, I could get it to clean up.  With the tripower, it was that way always.  You can call it user error.  But the guy at the gun store said he has the same problem with it.  I don't know, but I didn't have that problem with the aimpoint.

Duffy, I think I'd really like an acog with a little bit less magnification.  Like a compact one or even the 3x.  And I could see how someone could be fast with the 4x too.  My big issue with them is price.  And the eye relief seemed pretty short too.  But I do like them very much.

My whole post was about personal preference.  So I'm not trying to say one is better than the other.  They all have upsides and downsides.  The biggest downside to the aimpoint, in my opinion, is no magnification.  But when the mission for the rifle is 0-200, I don't think it's super critical.  And I'm sure you can poke a few out there too from time to time if you want to.  Just as if you had irons.

GreenO, can you explain what you know about the paralax issue to me.  I've never understood what it really means.  I'm interested to know.  However, I think alot of people zero aimpoints at 25 meters and don't see how this can be a problem worth noting.  But, I am open minded if you want to explain.

Paralax by definition is the change of angular position of two stationary points relative to each other as seen by an observer, due to the motion of an observer. Simply put; it is the apparent shift of an object against a background due to a change in observer position.

In laymans terms its the perception of the reticle moving when you  shift you head from side to side or up and down. The Aimpoints like all reflex sights are not completly paralax free. The Aimpoints and EOTechs have some at close range (withing 25m) but is minimal.  When zeroing at 25 meters you want to keep the reticle centered in the tube to minimize it. after that it's "Place dot of death on tgt and press...repeat as needed"

25 meter zero has been killing bad guys for many years and will kill bad guys out to 300meters  with M68'sCCO's

and common user mistake has nothing to do with the pixalated EOTech reticle. it is that way by pure nature of it's  design. One of the reason's I never liked it and still don't.

Quoted: Paralax by definition is the change of angular position of two stationary points relative to each other as seen by an observer, due to the motion of an observer. Simply put; it is the apparent shift of an object against a background due to a change in observer position. In laymans terms its the perception of the reticle moving when you  shift you head from side to side or up and down. The Aimpoints like all reflex sights are not completly paralax free. The Aimpoints and EOTechs have some at close range (withing 25m) but is minimal.  When zeroing at 25 meters you want to keep the reticle centered in the tube to minimize it. after that it's "Place dot of death on tgt and press...repeat as needed" 25 meter zero has been killing bad guys for many years and will kill bad guys out to 300meters  with M68'sCCO's and common user mistake has nothing to do with the pixalated EOTech reticle. it is that way by pure nature of it's  design. One of the reason's I never liked it and still don't.

Thank you, I understand and I fully agree.  At 25 meters the "shift" cannot be so much that it would take you off a torso, no?  Well I'm no expert but it'd have to be a hellofalot to actually pull you off target.  

And yes, that eotech ring was a bunch of little dots no matter how you sliced it.  And the tripower was not clear no matter what I did (looked like 2 reticles).  It's just what I observed.  Like I said, the reflex seemed to not "double" up if I DID focus on the reticle.  I didn't like that one because of that.  And yet I found no evidence of this with the aimpoint.  It wasn't a perfect circle but it was clearer than the rest.  And didn't look like 2 of them.

Rule of thumb I always apply is use what works good for you and stick with it. Aimpoints been working for me for  awhile and I see nothing out there that would cause me to  change based on my presents needs. Wait till the new EOtech with the CR123 batts come out. Guys will be dumping their AA versions like panties in a Sorority house.....
The pixalated reticle is part of the Holographic technology that allows them that type of reticle. With a simple dot it's  not needed.  Their is something to be said about a simple little red dot............ But again, it all boils down to preference. Lot of EOtech users who are happy with them and you don't like the reticle and that's that...

You should try the 1-4X scopes... nice and clear like the ACOG and turn down to 1X to use like the Aimpoint.  I think everyone that likes them has taken the journey through all the optics to come to the realization that you need 1X up close and 4X at a distance and a clear reticle for both.

Quoted: You should try the 1-4X scopes... nice and clear like the ACOG and turn down to 1X to use like the Aimpoint.  I think everyone that likes them has taken the journey through all the optics to come to the realization that you need 1X up close and 4X at a distance and a clear reticle for both.

I hear you.  Aren't those pretty spendy too though??  Which one are ya talking about Devl??  

Quoted: Quoted: You should try the 1-4X scopes... nice and clear like the ACOG and turn down to 1X to use like the Aimpoint.  I think everyone that likes them has taken the journey through all the optics to come to the realization that you need 1X up close and 4X at a distance and a clear reticle for both. I hear you.  Aren't those pretty spendy too though??  Which one are ya talking about Devl??

Trijicon TR 21:  1.5-4x with either an amber or red triangle.  Cost is roughly half of the TA31 you were looking at.  It has BAC and the added bonus of being adjustable to the situation.  Do a search in this forum as there have been many threads (some with pics), but try to handle one in person as well...

Copperhead