Quoted:
All I can say for sure is that it works for me

Quoted:
I think it is as good as it gets being up a little higher than the irons for good reason. A unity power scope(no magnification like a red dot/ reflex) that are designed to replace irons, need to be where the irons are so you have the irons able to work thru the optic if it fails. That's what the military decided to do after much time in field trials. The magnified optics such as a ACOG are just that, magnified and not used like an iron or unity optic. With an iron you have to peep thru a very small hole and line it up perfectly with a small front sight post way out front, that is where a cheek weld is so much more critical than using the very large ocular rear end of a magnified optic.

[red]This is incorrect.  Looking through magnified optics with your head not in line with the optics induces parallax error.  This shifts the POA relative to POI and causes accuracy degradation.[/red]

If you look at any of the military sniper scopes in use, domestic or foreign, any military you can find, in any generation, they are generally always placed higher than the iron's for good reason.

[red]Yes that good reason is that its a hack job.  This is why you see guys in the field using duct taped cheek rests on M14s converted to M21s in the field.  This is also why you see M24 and M40A1 sniper rifles with adjustable combs.  Anything less is a hack job.[/red]

When a sniper/counter sniper is scanning for targets of opportunity, it is much easier and quicker to engage a target, especially if it is moving, if you have the ability to move faster yourself, and that isn't done as well if you are snuggled too low behind the glass.

[red]personal opinion.  I move well head low or head high.  Head down is how I box too so its natural.[/red]

A magnified glass has a much larger ocular to look into that is much more forgiving than an iron, but you also have a field of view that is limited to more like a tunnel.

[red]No its not MUCH more forgiving because of parallax error which I stated above.  Thats why cheek weld is the mantra of precision shooting [/red]

Since your in more of a tunnel you need to be able to sweep a lot more in search of targets and engagement, especially multiple moving targets. Another thing to be considered by military snipers is retaining the ability to keep his vision of dangerous targets to the left or right from being totaly obscured by his own optic because it is too low and his ever so important peripheral vision is obstructed cause tyhe scope is too low.  

[red]I really have no idea how a low optic harms periferal vision.  That one blows my mind.[/red]


Designated targets are dif. than targets of opportunity. Designated targets are just simply put, something planned, but that is also much like a target bulls eye on a range, target shootin and doesn't have that much in common with targets of opportunity. Targets of opportunity mean not knowing what the distance will ever be, never knowing from where it will appear and or how many. An ACOG is a target of opportunity magnified scope, and not realy used for long range sniping and not generally used for designated targets.

[red]And yet it a designated marksman's rifle scope and is used at long ranges.  Height of the scope has nothing to do with speed of its use... well unless you want to say lower is faster, I could agree with that.[/red]

The ACOG was designed and issued to be in the carry handle and the irons are used under the optic thru the tunnel provided.

[red]Because of the number of A2 receivers this was needed.  Its still a hack job afterthought and not designed correctly[/red]

With the advent of the flat top, the ACOG was lowered by some, but not that much generally speaking, since it still is not best used too low like at the ht. of irons for the reasons listed above.

[red]Seems like the SOPMOD 2 upgrade wanted the optics that low where they SHOULD be instead of where ARMS wanted to put them.[/red]

Trijicon have the irons on top of the ACOG for the purpose of quick reaction to an enemy being too close and not much time to react.

[red]TA31 has the red dot in line with the scope for BAC use.  It will be mounted at the proper height for all the Marine A4s now which is a step in the right direction.[/red]

It is also faster to engage a dangerously close target via irons over the optic, than by peeking thru the carry handle tunnel, but it does not mean to put the scope too low for the other reasons listed above. It is more generally accepted by military users of magnified 4 power scopes whether sniper or not, to keep that type optic up higher than the irons. If you look at the pic's shown on here and various other sources, such as the IDF, they have their ACOGS mounted way higher than the carry handle in the #19 throw lever mounts attached to a dovetail rail.

[red]Again a hack job.  I suppose you think we should drop our rail systems and FF foreends so we can mount our IR lasers on the barrel like the IDF too?  Oh wait thats not a pro ARMS thing to say so you cant say that.[/red]

The British with their 4 power optic's also higher, the Germans, Canada with their Elcan built up with exposed controls to a higher ht. than where the iron center line is.

[red]Actually the G36 uses optics low.  The red dot sight mounted above the optic does not require a good cheekweld because the red dots are parallax free.  Your previous statements are the red dots need to be lower and optics higher.  Seems they did the opposite.[/red]

The militaries of the world have many reasons, some I have just listed. Cheek welds for irons are not necessarily the same for optics with magnification as a general rule in combat aplications, for good reason. For whatever it's worth that's my 2.5 cents worth.
Good shootin, and have a Merry Christmas to all, Jack

[red]Obviosly our own military feels differently.  There are no super high mounts that put the optics way up where the carry handle scopes used to be for the modern flattops.  Not for the M4A1 and Not for the M16A4.  Low rail height was speced for that reason for SOPMOD 2 upgrades and we all know it.  On an optic like the TA31 you have a very small sweet spot to not have some of the optic occluded by the casing.  With a proper iron sight cheek weld you bring the rifle up till your cheek touches the stock and your nose touches the charging handle.  There, your in the perfect spot every time and there is no "learning" or "hunting" for the right spot. This makes the low scope faster not slower.  This is simple physics and ergonomics.  It can be worked around and the end result is VERY small but dont try to tell us the ARMS SIR flaw is a design feature.[/red]

Quoted:
Nuts, I was following a thread where there was
some disagreement over whether or not mounting an ACOG onto a SIR raised the scope too high or not.  I was wanting to find out if that question was ever resolved.  So of course, naturally I've lost the thread.  Anybody know?

Thanks