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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:14:16 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: [b]He also told me that the Sept 13th ban of 1994 DID NOT GO INTO EFFECT UNTIL JULY 5TH 1995.[/b] Making any magazine with a date stamp/LEO marking made on or before 7/5/95 is perfectly legal for civilains to own. ... Was he specific to magazines only? |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:16:12 AM EDT
[#2]
They probably investigated you a lil too. since you were part of the case. jeeze a phone # on google can get most peoples address. I figure they can find out anything about you they want. they are the governemnt.
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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:21:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Posting to keep track of this thread.
I would also like to know if the 1995 date pertains to everything. Might be looking for a post ban lower made pre July 1995. |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:23:48 AM EDT
[#4]
He said all firearms and high capacity feeding devices.
If he doesnt call me back in the next few hours, I'll call him again and ask for the fax. I'll keep you all posted! Cody @ Magazine Specialties |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:27:44 AM EDT
[#5]
He said all firearms and high capacity feeding devices. I'm still going to be very skeptical. Otherwise, we wouldn't have to wait 9 years 8 mos to find out that 7/95 is the magical number. |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:28:23 AM EDT
[#6]
BATFE has all of your records and you think it is by accident?
you believe what a field agent says and think that their written word is a good defense? you called them to help you when you got screwed in a deal? you expect that they wont raid your home because they "told you so"? you even think he will call you back? [b]sucker.[/b] |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:29:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Very interesting....
You have a scanner? When he sends you the letter you scan that baby in to this site......[bounce] Might be a good day for us in the interim of the sunset. |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:39:32 AM EDT
[#8]
um, yea i need to watch this unfold.
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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:41:53 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Posting yeah |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:52:34 AM EDT
[#10]
IBTR (In Before The Raid)
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Posted: 6/10/2003 10:55:57 AM EDT
[#11]
marking.
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Posted: 6/10/2003 11:19:06 AM EDT
[#12]
ComputerGuy,
This is what you get for believing anything an agent says over the phone. Just like when you ask folks here, when you call ATF, you get a different response every time... Here's the rest of the story: The law covering AWs and hi-cap mags went into effect on 9/13/94. However, the specific regulations that specify what the markings need to be for both guns and mags was not finalized until July 95. So, while it IS true that "Restricted..." warnings weren't required until 7/95, the ban itself was still in effect since 9/94, and mags made from 10/94 on are still restricted. -Troy |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 11:22:06 AM EDT
[#13]
blinko
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Posted: 6/10/2003 11:49:40 AM EDT
[#14]
shhh...
Big Brother is watching... |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 11:55:26 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: IBTR (In Before The Raid) me too.[ROFL2] |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 11:58:58 AM EDT
[#16]
Did they come to your house yet?
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Posted: 6/10/2003 12:02:25 PM EDT
[#17]
IBTWSITF)
(In Before The Wife Shot In The Face) |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 12:03:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Did they come to your house yet? Well? |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 12:03:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Did they come to your house yet? Not yet, but the mags are disaseembled as for replacement parts at the moment. :-) I did have some officers give me a late night visit about some PREBAN mags before. That didn't go over well, believe me. |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 12:04:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: ComputerGuy, This is what you get for believing anything an agent says over the phone. Just like when you ask folks here, when you call ATF, you get a different response every time... Here's the rest of the story: The law covering AWs and hi-cap mags went into effect on 9/13/94. However, the specific regulations that specify what the markings need to be for both guns and mags was not finalized until July 95. So, while it IS true that "Restricted..." warnings weren't required until 7/95, the ban itself was still in effect since 9/94, and mags made from 10/94 on are still restricted. -Troy If it wasnt finalized until 95, then why don't my 6/2000 mags here have any leo markings on them? |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 12:15:16 PM EDT
[#21]
In to mark for later reading.
Suddenly, a lot of post-bans are actually pre-ban? Most interesting! CJ |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 12:26:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: Did they come to your house yet? Not yet, but the mags are disaseembled as for replacement parts at the moment. :-) I did have some officers give me a late night visit about some PREBAN mags before. That didn't go over well, believe me. Tell me about this visit I am courious. |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 12:52:39 PM EDT
[#23]
mags for export to other countries are not required to be marked restricted.
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Posted: 6/10/2003 12:53:12 PM EDT
[#24]
and yes, do tell of this mysterious visit!
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Posted: 6/10/2003 1:25:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Has Ebay sent agents to your house yet? They make JBTs look like girl scouts.
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Posted: 6/10/2003 2:56:57 PM EDT
[#26]
so..... are there a lot of preban guns made before JULY 5TH 1995 floating arround at cheap postban price?
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Posted: 6/10/2003 3:09:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Ok. I'm going to weigh in with some considered advice here.
1. Whatever the agent told you on the phone doesn't matter. He has no authority to alter the law or grant you special permission. So if he told you that you were complying with the law when you weren't you still go to jail. 2. Magazines marked 9/94 are postban and illegal for civilians to possess. 3. Get rid of the magazines. Immediately. Even if it's at a total loss. Every second you keep them in your house you are committing a felony. You are risking prison as well as your gun ownership privileges for life. You should have gotten rid of them as soon as you realized they were postban. 4. Pursue the guy through normal ebay channels to try and get a refund. 5. You are a complete ass if you did indeed call the ATF as you claimed. The ATF is not your friend. They will be happy to prosecute you for what you seem to think is a temporary lawful possession but to them is 10 years in jail and $100,000 in fines. You should not involve law enforcement agencies in your problems when you are breaking the law. (Officer, I was just mugged of my drugs!) It would be a different story if you had destroyed the magazines (e.g., crushed or burned) and were showing non-functional magazines to the ATF. 6. I strongly suspect a possible [:k] post here. |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 3:12:15 PM EDT
[#28]
I saw a thread about the ATF and ComputerGuy as the original poster, and I thought "oh crap, did he get a no-knock or something? I hope he's gonna be okay."
then I read the post, and it seems everything's gonna be alright. hooah. btw, since you're a magazine dealer, isn't it okay for you to have LEO mags, so long as they're intended for sale to LEOs? |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 3:17:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: since you're a magazine dealer, isn't it okay for you to have LEO mags, so long as they're intended for sale to LEOs? Hooooooo Haaaaaa! You're kidding, right? |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 3:18:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Very interesting thread, I do not think I would ever call the feds. [peep]
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Posted: 6/10/2003 3:53:23 PM EDT
[#31]
If they're not marked "for law enforcement/govt use or export only" how can they be illegal?
Date stamps mean crap! CRC |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 4:04:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: If it wasnt finalized until 95, then why don't my 6/2000 mags here have any leo markings on them? Because they were manufactured by Center Industries, who failed to comply with the labeling requirements until 2001. BATF finally forced them to mark the mags properly, after many complaints, and I *heard* but have [b]not[/b] been able to confirm that Center had to pay a fine for failing to mark the mags properly. Given that they were one of two primary government subcontractors, fixing that problem was a low priority for ATF. Their stated reason was "well, we can tell that they're post-ban by the date stamp on the mag, so it isn't that big a deal." All Centers have always had the production month and year marked on them, along with Center's CAGE code (6P199). You'll note that I've had some information on Center not properly marking their mags in the FAQ for years... -Troy |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 4:19:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: If it wasnt finalized until 95, then why don't my 6/2000 mags here have any leo markings on them? Because they were manufactured by Center Industries, who failed to comply with the labeling requirements until 2001. Troy, I heard a rumor that any mag not marked for LEO/mil use only could be considered pre-ban (despite any date marked), because the law specifically dictates that all post-ban mags must contain such markings. That sounds a little fishy, but I thought I'd ask you because you seem to know quite a bit about this. ComputerGuy, I'd be very interested in hearing about your late night visit over some mags... |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 4:19:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: If they're not marked "for law enforcement/govt use or export only" how can they be illegal? Date stamps mean crap! CRC I hope you don't really believe that... -Troy |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 4:22:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: The next call I made was to the ATF. It [b]sickens[/b] me that you would call the FUCKING ATF! Granted you got fucked, but that is a spineless fucking rat bastard thing to do, Even if the guy that screwed you was a prick! I would surely never do business with anyone who rats to the ATF!! |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 4:29:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: If they're not marked "for law enforcement/govt use or export only" how can they be illegal? Date stamps mean crap! CRC I hope you don't really believe that... -Troy Most people believe that to be post ban it has to be marked "leo/govt" only otherwise it's 100% legal. CRC |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 4:34:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Why don't you warn us about the POS that sold these to you????
Please do. TXL |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 4:34:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Contrived!
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Posted: 6/10/2003 4:39:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: The next call I made was to the ATF. It [b]sickens[/b] me that you would call the FUCKING ATF! Granted you got fucked, but that is a spineless fucking rat bastard thing to do, Even if the guy that screwed you was a prick! Oh, yeah, I was going to say something about that, too. (Maybe not quite as bluntly...) Going to the ATF seems like a bad idea. Always. 1) It draws attention to yourself. 2) It could draw attention to other customers of the guy who screwed you over. Nobody needs that. 3) It validates the ATF and their enforcement of BS laws. 4) Men settle things like men. You took a financial hit. Either settle up with the guy face to face or forget about it. |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 4:39:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: It [b]sickens[/b] me that you would call the FUCKING ATF! Granted you got fucked, but that is a spineless fucking rat bastard thing to do, Even if the guy that screwed you was a prick! I would surely never do business with anyone who rats to the ATF!! The way I read it was he called to ask about the "preban mags" dated 2000, not being LEO marked. Not specificly to "rat" on this guy that sold him obviously contraban materials unbeknownst to him, and thus getting a free ticket to club fed. |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 5:37:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Not yet, but the mags are disaseembled as for replacement parts at the moment. :-) Does not matter if assembled or not. Get rid of them. [img]http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 5:38:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Strip the internals out of the mags for parts,crush the bodies and sell them to the alum. recycler.
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Posted: 6/10/2003 6:10:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: You're kidding, right? |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 6:19:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Please let us know this dealer's ebay user id, because even if these were cheap, I don't think you're going to be dealing with him/her again.
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Posted: 6/10/2003 6:22:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: You're kidding, right? An FFL. |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 6:28:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Damn, isn't it sad to see law bidding Americans turn into criminals just for exercising their rights and freedoms.
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Posted: 6/10/2003 6:36:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: An FFL. |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 6:53:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Chiming in!
That you called the ATF about this clown sending you LEO marked mags is a GOOD thing! Any asshole whose conduct puts YOU in jeopardy with the law by his own callous disregard for it SHOULD be punished, and don't let anyone tell you differently! Some people may believe differently, but I know quite well that most of the agents working for the BATF (now BATFE) are on the side of any citizen who has a desire to abide by the law, and won't give you a problem about it if someone else violates the law and in doing so, puts YOU in violation against your wishes. It comes down to intent. Believe it or not, the ATF should be considered to be our friends in many respects. As for the mag marking issue, by the WRITTEN LETTER OF THE LAW, the most straightforward, unimaginitive interpretation is that a mag isn't illegal to own unless it has the LEO stamping on it, REGARDLESS of any date code stamping! The law as written doesn't say it any other way. This position is consistent with the precise written letter of the law, which is the only thing that an honest judge can concern himself with. CJ |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 7:46:14 PM EDT
[#49]
I'm tired and want to goto bed. Since everyone is speaking of magazine legalities (sp?) -- I am working on a 9mm AR.......I am fond of 25 rd IMI Uzi mags......I got one with my RRA mag block recently and picked up another two on line thru gunbroker or ebay (can't remember)....They are used, stamped with count marks, the #20 on the body above the floor plate and have the star of david on them..My RRA will be a registered SBR and all post ban....can someone tell me
1) can I own these? 2) can I buy more? This post is also to mark thread. thanks to all 1) can I own these |
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Posted: 6/10/2003 7:57:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If they're not marked "for law enforcement/govt use or export only" how can they be illegal? Date stamps mean crap! CRC I hope you don't really believe that... -Troy Most people believe that to be post ban it has to be marked "leo/govt" only otherwise it's 100% legal. CRC Would you care to expound on this beyond what you've posted? I don't know who's right on this, but if there's some law out there that says it has to say "LEO/Govt only" to be illegal, I'd like to see it. I've got some post-ban mags that my LEO brother-in-law is holding on to that I'd love to see back in my possession prior to 9/04. |
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