User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:01:39 PM EDT
I will start by saying this... ive been a HUGE Hornady supporter since day 1. I use their duty ammo on duty, their bullets for reloading, and their factory ammo for most calibers I run. I had decent luck with the Frontier ammo in the past, so I ordered 500 rounds of the 75 Gr OTM Match 223 for my Knights LPR. I had 5 other kinds of ammo out with me that day as well, so I only brought a box of each to see what the rifle liked best... When I opened the Hornady box, I was a bit annoyed to find two FMJ rounds stuck in the box with 18 OTM rounds. I contacted Hornady, they basically said ammo is fine, go shoot it. Obviously I figured it was safe to shoot, however I was more concerned with spending $14 a box and receiving $6 a box ammo mixed in. After emailing my concerns, they agreed to send me a box of comparable ammo, which was fine.
Fast forward to today, retesting with some new ammo I received recently, so I grabbed 2 more boxes of Frontier from my 500 round case. Sure enough, both boxes had FMJ mixed in. One box had 3 rounds, The other had 2 rounds. Now im a bit angry that quality control is complete crap. All from the same lot number, same brass, same looking crimp, etc. So after shooting today, I got home and opened up all the boxes. Of the 25 boxes, only THREE had all OTM rounds. The rest had between 1-6 FMJ rounds mixed in. If my 500 rounds had that many in there, im sure the whole lot (and who knows if others) are affected as well. I emailed Hornady today, so we will see if they want it all back and replace it, or just replace the total number of FMJ rounds. Total I found was 65 FMJ rounds, and one random soft point. Thats over 13% mismatched. I figured id at least notify people looking to save a few bucks on match ammo... you get what you pay for. Thankfully the 73 and 75 gr match ammo actually labeled Hornady were all the correct rounds.        
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:12:48 PM EDT
[#1]
So they loaded the wrong projectile. Yet another reason to run from Frontier.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:15:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: So they loaded the wrong projectile. Yet another reason to run from Frontier. I learned my lesson... prior to this, in thousands of rounds purchased, and thousands of projectiles loaded, the only issue I had was a 338 cal bullet in one of my 30 cal boxes, which they sent me another box of projectiles for it. Customer service is great from them, but I think this is a bit ridiculous. Anyone else with that LOT number should be checking their boxes. Who knows how many rounds per LOT there are. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:25:38 PM EDT
[#3]
What's the weight on the FMJ? What a weird deal.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:26:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks, OP.
They has only been one sorta report about kabooms for Frontier 75gr on here. Most are about the 55gr flavor. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:33:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Isnt frontier ammo the stuff that was kabooming ars cause they were loaded to hot?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:38:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Not sure on the bullet weight, I stopped reloading 2 years ago so I dont have a scale anymore.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:45:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azmp5: Isnt frontier ammo the stuff that was kabooming ars cause they were loaded to hot? I didn't see any bad stuff on the 75 gr match when I was researching it... Most said it was the T2 bullet in hornady brass and above average accuracy. My MR556 loved it, the KAC shot about 1 inch with it and preferred FGMM. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:45:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isnt frontier ammo the stuff that was kabooming ars cause they were loaded to hot? Yes it was. Stay away from it, if you know what's good. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:48:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Would be interesting to know if
1. They put a fmj bullet (i guess its lighter than 75gr) with a 75gr bullet powder load 2. Or that’s a complete fmj load with proper bullet/powder combo. Would option 1. be safe to shoot? I’m also wondering how many 55/62gr ammo with a 75gr bullet are out there.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:53:16 PM EDT
[#10]
At least it did not kaboom your gun OP.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:54:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Frens: Would be interesting to know if 1. They put a fmj bullet (i guess its lighter than 75gr) with a 75gr bullet powder load 2. Or that’s a complete fmj load with proper bullet/powder combo. Would option 1. be safe to shoot? I’m also wondering how many 55/62gr ammo with a 75gr bullet are out there.. I did find one lone soft point as well, so who knows what sort of variety pack people are getting. If I still had a bullet puller and scale, id tear a few boxes down just for fun to measure consistency across powder charges, bullet weights, etc. It seemed to shoot similar to the regular Hornady Match 75 gr from both rifles so *Most* of it is as it should be. I didn't shoot any of the FMJ stuff or the soft point round in case Hornady wants them back for testing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 6:57:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tigwelder1971: At least it did not kaboom your gun OP. Id be quite a bit more angry if I lost my MR556 or Knights SR15 LPR due to piss poor quality control of their ammo... thankfully I think the 75 gr stuff really cant be too overloaded due to case capacity/loading to magazine OAL, and id see some crazy ejection patterns to clue me in to stop shooting it. The two boxes (minus 5 rounds of FMJ) I went through today shot fine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 7:01:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Frens: Would be interesting to know if 1. They put a fmj bullet (i guess its lighter than 75gr) with a 75gr bullet powder load 2. Or that’s a complete fmj load with proper bullet/powder combo. Would option 1. be safe to shoot? I’m also wondering how many 55/62gr ammo with a 75gr bullet are out there.. Fron the reloading aspect, the heavier the bullet the less powder. Assuming they use the same powder for these 77s and 55/62gr stuff, say its 23gr of powder for the 77 vs 25gr for 55 fmj. So 23gr powder with a 55 fmj will still shoot fine, but velocity will be very low. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 7:02:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Holy shit.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 7:11:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Yeah stay away from Frontier as a whole.
Shitty, because I reload that 75gr bullet and I love it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 7:34:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Crap, a I have couple hundred rounds of that stuff. I will have to check it some point.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 8:00:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: Crap, a I have couple hundred rounds of that stuff. I will have to check it some point. I was going to just wait it out and check each box as I went, but after 3 straight boxes with mixed ammo, the OCD took over and I had to open them all and separate it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 8:58:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burnsy87: Yeah stay away from Frontier as a whole. My thoughts as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 9:07:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah stay away from Frontier as a whole. Shitty, because I reload that 75gr bullet and I love it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 10:58:26 PM EDT
[#20]
You made me go check. I bought a case of 500 a couple months ago to add to my stash of FR320. Turns out it's the same lot number as yours. I opened two boxes at random and they are all the correct OTM bullet.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 11:05:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: you get what you pay for. In this case you didn't even get that. Pretty sure that's fraud. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 11:26:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChrisM516: In this case you didn't even get that. Pretty sure that's fraud. Well, Fraud would have to include intent to commit a crime... in this case its just incompetence. When I emailed them about the first box, they insisted it was just my one box and not the whole lot, so while they are wrong (and likely didn't do any research or care the slightest), it would still be tough to even prove negligence. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 11:28:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Styer: You made me go check. I bought a case of 500 a couple months ago to add to my stash of FR320. Turns out it's the same lot number as yours. I opened two boxes at random and they are all the correct OTM bullet. Well, 3 boxes out of 25 were perfect for me 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2020 11:39:09 PM EDT
[#24]
pulled two bullets out... definitely not the same. I got tired of people insisting the hollow point was just crushed.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 1:38:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Is the entire Frontier line loaded at Lake City ?
That SMQ lot number is just like Fed. LC loaded ammo. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 1:42:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06: Is the entire Frontier line loaded at Lake City ? That SMQ lot number is just like Fed. LC loaded ammo. That's how I understand the partnership for the Frontier line, all loaded at LC |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 1:49:51 PM EDT
[#27]
After their kabooms from when they first came out I have continued to avoid it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 2:13:13 PM EDT
[#28]
I think I have on box of that stuff.
Anybody want to speculate on whether it will all be correct when I check it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 4:35:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: So they loaded the wrong projectile. Yet another reason to run from Frontier. The more likely event is that someone put loaded 75 gr. rounds in a bin that had loaded 55 gr. rounds still in it and sent it to the packaging department. If you look at how cases and loaded rounds are moved about in an ammunition plant, it is in large bins and tubs. On the loading line, I would expect QC rejects from the 20 gr. weight difference between the two projectiles. Weighing the powder charges of these two loads should answer the question of if the wrong projectiles were loaded, or if two different loaded rounds were mixed together. In either instance, a serious QC fuck-up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 4:41:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holy shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 4:46:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRW: what will a 55 gr FMJ do with a powder charge for a 75 gr bullet? Be slower. Less powder in the case for 75gr |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 5:26:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Lake City is absolutely fucking up Hornady's good name in the ammunition and reloading community!
 People are swearing off of a company that has had an impeccable record in the past for producing quality ammunition and reloading components for over 70 years. What concerns me is not the quality of just the Hornady branded ammunition, but all the other ammo Lake City is contracting out like the Norma and Winchester. Is it as shitty as these batches of Hornady? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 6:01:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Lake City is absolutely fucking up Hornady's good name in the ammunition and reloading community! People are swearing off of a company that has had an impeccable record in the past for producing quality ammunition and reloading components for over 70 years. What concerns me is not the quality of just the Hornady branded ammunition, but all the other ammo Lake City is contracting out like the Norma and Winchester. Is it as shitty as these batches of Hornady? I don’t know if anyone swearing off hornady most specifically mention frontier. There’s a reason they gave it it’s own name. There have been bad batches from everyone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 6:05:19 PM EDT
[#34]
I've heard nothing but horror stories on Frontier ammo. What gets me is how a company like Hornady can produce something so inconsistent. It makes me scratch my head.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 6:09:56 PM EDT
[#35]
(Remington says hold my beer...I've had 9x19mm Golden Sabre with no powder, 00 Buck that had pellets mashed together so it would fit in the mag tube, but jam chambering, plus all sorts of other things)
I do think this is mostly a LCAAP issue with Frontier 5.56. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 6:12:43 PM EDT
[#36]
After hearing this ammo didn’t have the kablooie issues and knowing it’s a bullet at a good price. I bought 500 rounds last week. Off to check it I guess
I have the lot after yours OP (008). I opened 10 boxes and upon visual inspection all have the proper bullet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 6:15:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After hearing this ammo didn't have the kablooie issues and knowing it's a bullet at a good price. I bought 500 rounds last week. Off to check it I guess |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 6:23:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: Rather than pulling them down, you could probably weigh them fast and detect a difference in bullet. Not planning on pulling. Just visually inspecting to see if any FMJ were floating around. I’m not too worried about it as this is more of a backup hunting/SD/SHTF stash. Still have plenty of other stuff and am planning a 1k purchase of either MK318, Pine Valley 77 OTM or Pine Valley Gold Dot ASAP. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 6:31:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Those case necks look like crap too.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 7:35:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Devildog: The more likely event is that someone put loaded 75 gr. rounds in a bin that had loaded 55 gr. rounds still in it and sent it to the packaging department. If you look at how cases and loaded rounds are moved about in an ammunition plant, it is in large bins and tubs. On the loading line, I would expect QC rejects from the 20 gr. weight difference between the two projectiles. Weighing the powder charges of these two loads should answer the question of if the wrong projectiles were loaded, or if two different loaded rounds were mixed together. In either instance, a serious QC fuck-up. I believe this is what happened. On the two I pulled, the 75 gr had visually less powder (lower height inside the case). That isn't scientific since I dont have a powder scale anymore, but if I had to guess, someone mixed them somehow (never been inside an ammo plant) and loaded rounds from three batches were combined (I did find that random soft point as well). I have enough quality match 5.56 now where I dont need this anymore, but we will see what Hornady does to make it right. Hopefully it includes ammo stamped Hornady, and not more Frontier stuff. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 9:05:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sgthoskins: I've heard nothing but horror stories on Frontier ammo. What gets me is how a company like Hornady can produce something so inconsistent. It makes me scratch my head. That's the thing. Hornady is NOT producing this ammo. It is made in Lake City possibly using Hornady supplied bullets and they are stamping the brass with a Frontier headstamp and putting it in a Hornady box. This is Lake City's fuckup and it's going to cost Hornady marketshare, and confidence from shooters. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2020 10:53:18 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigHunt: That's the thing. Hornady is NOT producing this ammo. It is made in Lake City possibly using Hornady supplied bullets and they are stamping the brass with a Frontier headstamp and putting it in a Hornady box. This is Lake City's fuckup and it's going to cost Hornady marketshare, and confidence from shooters. Yes, Hornady bullets and brand. May be a case of sabotage. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2020 12:11:03 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigHunt: That's the thing. Hornady is NOT producing this ammo. It is made in Lake City possibly using Hornady supplied bullets and they are stamping the brass with a Frontier headstamp and putting it in a Hornady box. This is Lake City's fuckup and it's going to cost Hornady marketshare, and confidence from shooters. Actually, its Hornadys fuck up... When I had my business and hired a shitty contractor, I didnt just tell the customer "well, wasn't my fault, the guy we hired to do it because we cant make enough money doing it internally did the shitty job", I sucked it up and dealt with it. If Hornady did this to cut production costs and take advantage of a lower market, then they have to accept the consequences of using someone else's quality control. I dont blame them for doing so, however thats the cost of doing business. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2020 6:10:37 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burnsy87: Be slower. Less powder in the case for 75gr Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burnsy87: Originally Posted By MRW: what will a 55 gr FMJ do with a powder charge for a 75 gr bullet? Be slower. Less powder in the case for 75gr True, Unless it’s the other way around.. All 55gr loads with wrong 75gr bullets in it 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2020 8:40:06 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FenixMike: Actually, its Hornadys fuck up... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2020 9:21:35 AM EDT
[#46]
How does something like this happen?
I worked in a production line factory for a while, and for each specific item it was a straight line from start to finish. Product from line 1 never got close to product from line 2. How could bullets from one line get mixed in with those from another? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2020 9:22:03 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FenixMike: Actually, its Hornadys fuck up... When I had my business and hired a shitty contractor, I didnt just tell the customer "well, wasn't my fault, the guy we hired to do it because we cant make enough money doing it internally did the shitty job", I sucked it up and dealt with it. If Hornady did this to cut production costs and take advantage of a lower market, then they have to accept the consequences of using someone else's quality control. I dont blame them for doing so, however thats the cost of doing business. True. They should ultimately be responsible for what gets their brand name stamped on the box. They were prepared to take the glory if the Frontier line had been a success and they have to own it when it turns out to be a turd. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2020 9:26:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azmp5: Fron the reloading aspect, the heavier the bullet the less powder. Assuming they use the same powder for these 77s and 55/62gr stuff, say its 23gr of powder for the 77 vs 25gr for 55 fmj. So 23gr powder with a 55 fmj will still shoot fine, but velocity will be very low. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azmp5: Originally Posted By Frens: Would be interesting to know if 1. They put a fmj bullet (i guess its lighter than 75gr) with a 75gr bullet powder load 2. Or that’s a complete fmj load with proper bullet/powder combo. Would option 1. be safe to shoot? I’m also wondering how many 55/62gr ammo with a 75gr bullet are out there.. Fron the reloading aspect, the heavier the bullet the less powder. Assuming they use the same powder for these 77s and 55/62gr stuff, say its 23gr of powder for the 77 vs 25gr for 55 fmj. So 23gr powder with a 55 fmj will still shoot fine, but velocity will be very low. This, slipping a light projectile in the wrong load run is not dangerous, just shitty. What will not be good is a run of light projectile loads with a few heavy bullets in the mix. Proof loads! Absolutely no excuse for this quality in this day and age. Were they still stalling the guys with blown up guns from their ammo? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2020 9:30:20 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRW: what will a 55 gr FMJ do with a powder charge for a 75 gr bullet? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRW: Originally Posted By FightingHellfish: Holy shit. Fall short. A heavy bullet has a lighter charge to stay under max pressure. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2020 9:34:05 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: (Remington says hold my beer...I've had 9x19mm Golden Sabre with no powder, 00 Buck that had pellets mashed together so it would fit in the mag tube, but jam chambering, plus all sorts of other things) I do think this is mostly a LCAAP issue with Frontier 5.56. Yep at work Winchester USA line of 5.56 has come through with missing primers, reversed primers, bent necks, folded case mouths. Similar issues with the .40 call fmj practice ammo. The ranger duty ammo looked good though. Remington also puts out rejects in their cheap lines. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
