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Posted: 9/17/2005 4:35:09 PM EDT
Well, I know I'm probably going to get the proverbial shit kicked out of me for this, but why spend so much extra money on ammo like Federal when you can buy Wolf for so much cheaper? Now I'm not talking about precision shooting/hunting ammo but I know alot of the guys here (and girls I guess
 ) stockpile ammo for SHTF situations. Now if Wolf works good in your rifle, wouldn't it make more sense to buy good mags and followers to avoid jams?
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Posted: 9/17/2005 4:46:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Because under-powedred, poor accuracy, unreliable, non-fragmenting bullets aren't what we want to stock up on?
Just a guess. If all you want is to make a hole somewhere on that paper, knock yourself out. I shoot Wolf when that's what I want to do. But I prefer ammunition that's better than that. Larry |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 5:05:03 PM EDT
[#2]
In a SHTF situation I want every shot to count. No waste. No guessing, just proven ammo.
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Posted: 9/17/2005 5:18:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Cheap ammo in my AR is akin to feeding my kids potato chips and soda at every meal.
 I'd be interested to hear the comments of Colt, Bushmaster, RRA, etc regarding the use of cheap ammo - just for grins. |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 5:22:55 PM EDT
[#4]
I bought a quality rifle, so I want to run quality ammo through it. I'm convinced that steel cased ammo will eventually marr your chamber far more than a brass case will. Not something I want to gamlbe on.
I wouldn't buy a Corvette and buy 87 octane for it. |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 5:36:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Sooooo thats a bad thing?? No wonder protective services keeps taking the kids away...I thought it was some new government thing for forced vacations.....CAUSE IM SOOO STRESSSED!!!! 
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Posted: 9/17/2005 5:39:21 PM EDT
[#6]
,
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Posted: 9/17/2005 8:41:28 PM EDT
[#7]
So your quality rifle "knocks" when you shoot wolf? Maybe you can adjust the compression settings for that.  BTW, do they make an octane booster for ammo? |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 8:48:56 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 9/17/2005 8:56:26 PM EDT
[#9]
As much as I love my ARs if the SHTF I'll leave them behind. If my and my familys life is in danger it's 7.62 all the way. As for Wolf hurting an AR chamber, go to Knob Creek or any other large machinegun shoot and just watch how many people dump mag after mag of Wolf through M16s. Wolf works in all my ARs and seeing how I only punch paper with them why spend more than I have to on ammo.
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Posted: 9/17/2005 9:03:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Or hey heres an idea...load your own ammo, save money and have some killer ammo
 ....plus you load it for what you want to do...ya want precision, you got it. You want zombie killer ammo, no prob. Hunting ammo you know it doooood. My .02 |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 9:12:31 PM EDT
[#11]
you know something, I don't think I would want to be on the receiving end - down range - of Wolf Ammo. I think it's good stuff. Damn good. Of when killed by Wolf it is only 90% as dead as being killed by a Federal round.
 Youre much more dead if killed by a non-wolf bullet. Anyway, I'm planning on Staying UP range. |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 9:24:47 PM EDT
[#12]
I shoot Wolf but I also shoot match ammo. Different ammo for different guns/uses. I would use it for CCW or hunting, or long range target shooting. But for blasting garbage it works great.
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Posted: 9/17/2005 9:49:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Hmmmm.
Lets see. DCM A2 rifle-$250 SS match barrel Recce - $385 Noveske Recon SS match barrel It's kind of like getting a Porsche and running it on kerosene. . . . |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 10:03:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Here's a thought, any bullet can kill. That said, a .22 LR could drop someone like a sack of potatos, or it may take 15+ rounds. Also, a load like Mk262 could drop someone instantly or not as well. The question is which load has the most consistant lethality, accuracy, and reliability. Wolf may be consistant ( I use it all the time), and is no doubt deadly, but is it consistently deadly, and accurate? No. Not as accurate, and based on ballistics info, not as lethal as other rounds out there. And those 7.62 is better folks, what are you packing for such a situation? and how is it better? |
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Posted: 9/17/2005 11:16:05 PM EDT
[#15]
I just tried Wolf in my AR. It worked fine functionally. But I was trying to zero my sights at the time and there was too much scatter with the Wolf even at 50 yds to allow me to zero. It was disapointingly inaccurate. The S&B I was also using at the time gave decently small groups and allowed my to proceded with zeroing.
I'll try Wolf again to see how accurate it is, but it seems to have severe liitations on it's accuracy. Usually when I shoot I like to recheck the zero/accuracy. With Wolf it may be difficult. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 3:16:27 AM EDT
[#16]
Some find Wolf ammo works for them in their ARs.
For me, it doesn't. For the type of shooting I do with my AR15, Wolf doesn't provide the value I want for the money I want to pay. I'm not a blaster, more a semi-serious target shooter, and Wolf just doesn't give me the level of accuracy I want. In addition, my tight-chambered DPMS just doesn't tolerate much of it. FTXs and finally a broken extractor claw was my trade-off for saving money on 500 rounds of ammo. For me, the rifle is the primary focus, and as long as good quality brass-cased ammo is available, I see no point in buying/selling AR15s until I find one that WILL shoot Wolf. My blasting rifles are my SKS and my M44, and they both get Wolf, but then that's the kind of ammo those guns were designed to use. If I ever buy an AK in 5.45 or 5.56 (dumb CT AWB doesn't allow 7.62x39 in Kalashnikovs), it will probably get a diet of Wolf as well, for the same reason. But Baby will get brass-cased. YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 5:59:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Why do I shoot Wolf?
I don't feel like spending 50% - 75% more on ammo. When I go shooting I go to shoot. I dump at least 1k rds each trip. in the 10.7k worth of Wolf that I have fired, I can honestly say that I have had 4 rounds stuck in the chamber (recently, within the last two trips). I upgraded my extractor spring with a Wolff XP spring and my issues have gone away. My BM upper/barrel has not had any signs of extra wear and tear. My BM bolt which I bought with the barrel is still holding up strong at 10.7k. I did have to replace a gas ring a while ago, I bent it by accident. The bolt/Carrier gas ring test passes. I may have to give the gas tube a inspection (under Tweaks recommendation). it seems that 10.7k would be the time to inspect this part, regardless of the brand of ammo. I don't experience short stroking with Wolf and I run the normal buffer spring with h-buffer. The parts that are original and have the actual 10.7k of Wolf are the barrel, bolt and gas tube. I say that for this rifle, Wolf works fine and I will continue to use it. I clean and inspect after every range trip to identify any possible issues or undo wear/tear. This M4orgery is: a BM 14.5 barrel 1/9 with perm Phantom BM A3 upper BM Bolt RRA Carrier Ameetec Lower with BM LPK and a DPMS hammer Vltor stock w/standard carbine spring and H-buffer  That pile of steel/brass is a mix of .223, .30cal carbine and 7.62x39. Me and my step-father had a 2k day. 1k worth of Wolf .223 and a mix of 7.62 and .30cal. w00t! Shoot it up!! edited for spelling |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:18:45 AM EDT
[#18]
I love Wolf so do my Bushy and RRA rifles!!!!!
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Posted: 9/18/2005 8:24:15 AM EDT
[#19]
You also ignore the fact that not all steel has the same hardness. You could form the case with hardened steel. The russians have figured out how to make steel work for cartridge cases, and their steel isn't significantly harder than brass when compared to the chamber of an AR. You will have long eroded the throat of the barrel before you'd get enough chamber wear to be a problem. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 10:05:46 AM EDT
[#20]
I have killed many aluminum cans, milk jugs, horse apples, and all kind of other things, paper and otherwise, with cheap wolf ammo. It seems to shoot plenty well for me. If I am sighting in a gun, I will usually use something more expensive, but if I'm out to play, then I see no reason to make it extra-expensive.
If I could afford an M16, then I probably would still continue to run cheap ammo for playing, because barrels don't cost that much, and if I can drop $10k+ for a gun, I can probably also drop $200-$500 periodically to replace a barrel. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 12:34:41 PM EDT
[#21]
I like Wolf too. It works great in my rifles; it isn't as accurate as Q3131A or M193, but it is still accurate enough to put holes in my targets out on the 300yd stand fairly consistently with irons. (they're all over it, but they're still hits)
HOWEVER Not in a million years would I stockpile Wolf in .223 for defensive use when M193ish ammo can be had for less than twice the cost of Wolf. "Killing" soda cans, milk jugs, and so on, has not a damn thing to do with killing people. As has been mentioned already, Wolf does not fragment the same way as M193-like ammo does. If you use Wolf .223 for defensive ammo, you're turning a rifle that has acceptable performace at close range and mediocre performance at longer ranges, to a rifle that is equally mediocre at all ranges. If you can't afford to get anything better than Wolf for serious use, you probably shouldn't have bought an AR. Now, if you have an SKS or an AK, by all means, stockpile Wolf and other Russian ammo for defensive purposes. (My favorite when I had an AK was the Barnaul soft points.) |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 12:42:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Yes, I should have also included that I would only use wolf to defend myself against cans, ant hills, milk jugs, and the like. There are plenty of good hollow point rounds, or M193-type rounds for defensive use. I prefer something that expands or fragments well over somthing that doesn't when it really counts. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 12:59:13 PM EDT
[#23]
On another note, I reload, so that rules out Wolf altogether IMHO. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 2:08:49 PM EDT
[#24]
I have no problems with Wolf. It functions in both my AR's, it shoots 4" 20 rd groups at 100 yards ( with in my Minute of Torso requirements) I've had one mis fire that I can recall and that wasn't a big deal, I just cycled the gun and it went boom!
And yes it is underpowered (the only time I notice that was while shooting Full Auto, none of which I own  ), compared to 5.56 loads, but it is also 1/2 the cost. I have 2600 rds of 5.56 (1600 XM193 and 1000 XM-855) stored away. But I also have another 4K of 62 gr Wolf on Hand. I'm still buying as the wallet allows, there will be more of both, the 'good stuff' and plenty of Wolf! And if the rumors are true that Wolf is uping the power of their 223 I'll be buying even more!But then again I have 308's for the serious work  |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 4:13:20 PM EDT
[#25]
I have gone round with issue myself, and here's my solution:
For Highpower I shoot BH 68's, my own 69's or Samson 70's. My local CMP match sells win 62's, but those get saved. I bought a fair amount of Q/XM for the rainy day. I will shoot the XM first in practice, because I like the brass for my reloads. All 3 of my rifles like the Q marginally better, so it gets saved until needed. I plink and shoot 3gun with a mix of SA, WOLF, and handloaded 55's - Depending on wheather I can retrieve my brass. Wolf goes to lost brass small matches, SA goes to important lost brass matches, and my handloads get shot when I know I can pick up my brass... That said, you CAN reload Wolf. For grins I took a box of 20 poly wolfs and shot and reloaded them over an afternoon. The first case neck split was after 2 firings, 3 cases lasted 10 shots with no problems. Sizing was effortless, and didn't require any lube, thanks to the polymer. I did not want to crimp but after 2 shots the neck tension went away and I had to. That is want killed most of the cases. The primer pockets started getting loose, but a dab of fingernail polish fixed that. Now, do I save my wolf brass[steel]? No. Would I recommed anyone else trying what I did? No. Is it nice to know that in a pinch [TEOTWAWKI] that I could load wolf if I needed to? Yes. Oh yeah, Lee single stage press and dies, win primers and 55 gr bullets, 1.60 POWDER DIPPER, BL-C(2). For the haters: Don't believe a word I say, and don't try this at home. Trained professional see me and laugh, do not believe or act upon anything I have alegedly done, you have been warned.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 6:23:10 PM EDT
[#26]
I just bought 2 cases of the JHP wolf for $99 a case. Instead of going online and trying to buy Q3131 or Lake City surplus or pull downs I am going to roll my own SD/SHTF ammo.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:00:11 PM EDT
[#27]
I agree, especially if the weather is bad. There is something about having the choice between an AR and an AKheGo ahead and let me have itK |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:05:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Has anyone thought about using Silver Bear since so many people seem to hate Wolf. Its also pretty cheap too. I have seen it for $59 for 500. Great cheap plinkin ammo and it looks cool and you can get FMJ, JHP, and SP in 55 and 62gr.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:11:08 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm waiting for Walmart to start selling Wolf.... Then people here can really get there Ass in a uproar!!!
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:11:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Im trying to figure out why I have to justify to you what I spend my money on.
Oh wait, I dont 
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:16:24 PM EDT
[#31]
I do the same as some others. I load my own for match situations and use plinking ammo for just that.
I guess I just take pride in shooting my own stuff. |
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Posted: 9/20/2005 1:22:43 AM EDT
[#32]
Hey, nice attitude. Are you originally from New York?
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Posted: 9/20/2005 3:47:37 AM EDT
[#33]
Naw, that's just Lumpy: Great pictures, Zero patience, and the occasionial quote that will have you rolling on the floor. He'll make a great "crankey old bastard" when he gets old... |
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Posted: 9/20/2005 9:48:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Lump is the original cranky old bastard but a good shit.
I don't mind shooting Wolf ammo when I can get it. Most of my applications are less than 100 yards. I don't like the 5.56 / .223 for anything past that. Not that it isn't effective, I just like the margin of error that a .308 provides. My next project is a FN/FAL. Once completed, it will be my SHTF goto. I love my AR and I choose it for urban work for the lack of penetration on hard targets it provides. Civil liability being what it is. Besides, the guys I teach have a hard enough time shooting their friggin sidearms worth a shit without having to teach them how to handle a .308 battle rifle. The AR platform gives me something that is easy to train and handle by people who would probably choose to not handle anything at all. I prefer to shoot Federal M193 when I can get it in bulk for practice and the new TAP/FPD looks good as well for "goblin getters". Again, I limit my appplications. I am NOT the best rifle marksman. I'm a handgun guy. Besides, with my stigmatism I have to limit my range anyway. |
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Posted: 9/20/2005 1:50:42 PM EDT
[#35]
"I hold in my hand the names of 57 card-carrying Communists" working in the State Department. "And one nefarious individual who is buying Russkie ammo from Chicom infiltrators." 
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Posted: 9/20/2005 5:34:09 PM EDT
[#36]
How bout this for punching paper:
223 FRANGIBLE U.S.G.I. 50 GRAIN BULLET REDUCED RICOCHET LOW PENETRATION UNITED STATES GOVT. ISSUE. It's on sale on Ammoman.com and I figure it'd be better than running cheaper quality ammo. Thoughts? |
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Posted: 9/20/2005 5:39:16 PM EDT
[#37]
The American Eagle he has is cheaper. |
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Posted: 9/20/2005 6:25:27 PM EDT
[#38]
I typically keep a case or two of Wolf in the ammo locker. While I don't really plink with it I do make sure that every new AR that I buy or build functions properly with it. So far all of my 5.56 rifles seem to eat Wolf just fine.
While I prefer to use M193 and Federal (AE) 55gr FMJBT for practice and training I wouldn't mind shooting up Wolf if it was all I had left. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 9:40:27 AM EDT
[#39]
If you use Wolf .223 for defensive ammo, you're turning a rifle that has acceptable performace at close range and mediocre performance at longer ranges, to a rifle that is equally mediocre at all ranges. If you can't afford to get anything better than Wolf for serious use, you probably shouldn't have bought an AR Huh?
What is acceptable? A .223 is mildly acceptable at any range...wolf or not...especially when a 7.62x51 is available... My RRA performance is stellar when using WOLF at all ranges...at least those acceptable for application of a .223 round... Hell, I can AFFORD any and ALL makes and brands of .223 ammo...I prefer WOLF because it works...all the time/everytime in my RRA M4...I practice with it...I shoot it...I have Wolf ammo in my weapon ALL the time....because I trust it and it shoots WELL in MY rifle. Accurate, reliable and proven... Why would I use another ammo if Wolf (or any other brand, for that matter) works for me? I also shoot the hell out of Wolf .45 acp w/o a problem and I do "carry" it too! Why...because it works...when I want it to work...all the time...just like winchester, remington, federal, etc. Dance with the one who brung ya! And, as always...YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/22/2005 1:02:57 AM EDT
[#40]
I beleive it boils down to this; If TSHTF, would you rather field with Wolf or M193/855?
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Posted: 9/22/2005 6:55:18 AM EDT
[#41]
Train like you'd fight... fight like you've trained |
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Posted: 9/22/2005 9:08:56 AM EDT
[#42]
Well if the Wolf doesn't jam on you. 
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Posted: 9/22/2005 5:18:32 PM EDT
[#43]
my 24" RRA shoots 1 1/2" - 2" 100 yard groups with wolf and my ak loves the stuff too.
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Posted: 9/22/2005 7:35:11 PM EDT
[#44]
I reload for practice ammo. Wolf is nothing but crap I have seen the early stuff do very bad things to AR's.
Pat |
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Posted: 9/22/2005 7:37:56 PM EDT
[#45]
I would use my Colt M4 well before my 7.62 Armalite. The Colt is reliable to the extreem and is a proven design. Its the longest service rifle so far. The 223 will do just fine with good ammo. But people have to take their choice and live with it.
Pat |
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Posted: 9/23/2005 8:09:13 AM EDT
[#46]
I shoot a lot of Wolf but
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Posted: 9/23/2005 9:10:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Had to have been a joke post, nobody is that ignorant.
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Posted: 9/24/2005 5:23:08 AM EDT
[#48]
I think it would depend on what you have on hand at the moment. another thought would be to use what ever you find after you exhaust your SHTF stash. If I was low on my SHTF stash, I would use what ever I found. Wouldn't you? Let's say we were scrounging around for food/water in the zombie waste-lands... we find a sporting good store and go in to look for some camping food or something. We find a pallet of Wolf ammo under a pile of tents or something. I dang sure would take all of it... and any camping supplies as well. just a thought |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 10:33:28 AM EDT
[#50]
All you Wolf lovers, take a box of it outside on the backporch. Now leave it there thru a rainstorm. Now, while it is still covered in water, go shoot half of it. Then, let the other half dry out and get real rusty, go shoot it.
Report back your results. Then decide if your going to stake your life on it.  I shoot some 7.62 Wolf, I would never depend on it to save my life unless that was all I had. |
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