Is this sketchy? I feel taken advantage of...

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is this sketchy? I feel taken advantage of... (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:34:47 AM EDT

Hey guys, I have had some bad dealings with the place I got my first custom build from, and now have concerns over the quality of the rifle that I have spent quite a bit of money on. Sorry it's a bit of a read, any input is much appreciated! I'll have to post this in a few parts because of the 2000 character limit. Sorry!

Last year I bought my first AR15, a custom build from a local shop that appeared to have a good reputation. I know many people suggest to build them yourself, but at the time I didn't know too much about AR internals/brands and wanted a free float rail which seemed to be a bit more complicated to install vs a standard delta ring/handguard. I also didn't have any of the required tools. I decided that I'd just buy the custom build from the shop, figuring they knew what they were doing. I got it for around $700 and it had a free float keymod handguard (I shoulda gotten the Mlok version!). The gun store itself seemed good, they have a lot of SBRs, suppressors, and they seem to have a good amount of equipment for gunsmithing.

Well, I got it home and realized that the stock was stuck (it was stuck on the buffer tube threading when fully collapsed). I didn't want to force anything, so I took it back down the road to the shop and showed it to them. The guy working the counter pulled it off and showed me that it was just stuck on the threads and that I just had to yank it off. Okay, no big deal. A while later I decided to get a Magpul CTR stock for $60 (which I also got from them!) thinking that might fix the stuck stock issue... well, it didn't. It was getting pretty annoying, and at some point in the future when I went there to buy some stuff, I told the one guy working there about it and he said it was because of the threads, and that they could sand down the threads so it didn't do that anymore, and that they would do it for free because it was their custom build and because I got it from them.

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:35:35 AM EDT

[#1]

Well, I brought it to them a day or two later and the owner who I assume does most of the gunsmithing work (and who initially sold me the rifle) was at the counter this time (he tends to have an arrogant attitude that I don't like, I've noticed it before but I assumed he knew what he was doing and just gets annoyed by customers being stupid/asking for stupid things or something - should have been a red flag from the get go). The other guy working there (not the owner) took another look at it and confirmed it was an issue. I said I was told they would fix it by sanding down the threads, but now the owner started insisting that he could just lightly sand the inside of my CTR stock and it would be fine. I voiced some concerns that sanding the stock would cause the stock to become wobbly, something I specifically got the Magpul CTR to prevent because of it's friction lock. I was assured it wouldn't be noticeable, and figured (again) that it would be fine. Even the guy working the counter seemed like he was a bit hesitant, but the owner seemed busy and kept insisting I set it on the counter and that they'd take care of it.

Well a few days later I pick it up and it turns out the stock was (of course) quite a bit more wobbly than before. However, it did not stick on the threads and I knew that if I complained about the job that they did for free that they were going to give me shit for it. I was in a bit of a rush, so I took it home and decided I'd take a longer look at it to see what was up.

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:36:14 AM EDT

[#2]

Well, it turns out the standard M4 style stock it came with was even tighter than the CTR now, even with the friction lock engaged! At this point I'm quite frustrated, but I have quite a big feeling that no matter how much I argue with them, they'll just tell me "You asked us to do something, we did it for free, and it fixed the problem". Unfortunately this means that instead of replacing the buffer tube for $30, I now wasted $60 on a stock I bought at THEIR store, that is now shitty in ADDITION to still having an out of spec buffer tube. Now I'm out $90. Unfortunately, at the time I didn't have the required tools and know-how to remove the castle nut (I do now) and replace the buffer tube, that's why I took it back to them in the first place...

Now it's around a year later, and I just read on the forums here of someone else dealing with the same gun store. They took two barrels there to pin & weld warcomp flash hiders, and they COMPLETELY mangled it. They didn't even pin it, they literally just welded the flash hider directly on to the barrel in one spot, leaving an ugly-as-hell lump. ATF laws dont even consider that to be "permanently attached"! They refused to pay for the barrels they mangled and even refused to refund him the money! Gave him the same attitude that I've seen them give many others.

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:37:02 AM EDT

[#3]

To my question - I will no longer buy anything from that store, however I now am starting to question the quality of my rifle now that it appears their gunsmithing work is trash. Every single part other than the marked Anderson lower is completely unmarked. A while back when I went in I asked about what brands were used, (specifically the upper receiver) and was told that they "made" the upper receiver. I forget exactly what was told to me, but I think the gist was that they buy their parts from manufacturers with no labels to avoid licensing fees or something. They were apparently waiting on some OEM license (I think? maybe it was something else - sorry, I don't know all of the laws) so they couldn't put their branding on it either... In short, they wouldn't tell me and basically there's no way to know who made any of the parts other than the stamped lower (I know Anderson is known to be budget, but I also know they hold up well/are durable, just ugly). I haven't had any issues with the gun other than the buffer tube threading issue, but I wish I knew what the quality of the parts were.

Throughout the last year, I have obtained quite a bit more knowledge on what brands are good, and how to assemble things properly, but I feel like I was taken advantage of at the time. When I first bought the rifle, I was assured by the owner that I could tie it to the back of a pickup truck and drag it home and it would hold up. But I don't take anything this idiot says at face value anymore. FWIW, I do have an aero buffer kit coming in the mail, as well as an ACS stock to replace the CTR they screwed up.

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:37:43 AM EDT

[#4]

Is it still possible that the gun is made from high quality parts? I had hoped that the custom build was made with "durable budget" parts (like Anderson for example) that may not be pretty but are very durable, which would leave me with a good durable foundation that I could modify later if I wanted, and was still good for the price. When they said they "made" the upper, is it safe to assume they didn't actually make it, but just assembled it?

Are all Anderson lowers forged? Is it common for "custom" builds to consist of unmarked parts to avoid licensing and deliver a cheaper rifle? Last thing, many of the parts have a keyhole stamp in them, including the barrel. Could this be an indication of one of the brands used? Thanks guys. Sorry for the long story, but I figured I needed some backstory for my questions.

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:46:23 AM EDT

[#5]

Confused on what you mean stuck on the threads. I kinda got to the TL:DR after that. I have never had a stock that would get hung up on threads.

I have some that are a shit load tighter and many that are a shit load looser. My SBA4 brace is by far the most tight one I have. Compared to my SBA3 braces that slide on and off with ease the SBA4 is to the point set it and forget it cause that shit is to much pain in the ass to adjust.

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:47:14 AM EDT

[#6]

So... how does it shoot?

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:50:13 AM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:
So... how does it shoot?

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After reading everything this is the main question. I have never had any issues with any Poverty Ponies and I have a lot of them. Uppers I have many different brands and they all work the same. Barrels and triggers is what really makes an AR. BCG's somewhat. FYI this is for the newbie OP.

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:50:28 AM EDT

[#8]

For a $700 custom AR from a shop that doesn't seem to have the highest pride, doesn't label the parts, and doesn't appear to have much esprit de corps (and one where your spidy-sense is starting to go off); yes, you can be sure the parts in that gun are all budget parts.

That doesn't mean they are all bad parts for sure though. While Anderson is a tell that these aren't big spenders; the Anderson lower itself is actually a good lower. You can make a rifle better than even a LaRue on an Anderson lower - but the problem is while not all Anderson's end up on bad cheap home-guns; all bad cheap home-guns are on Anderson lowers.

As to the total-gun if it functions well and shoots accurately, then you got a good draw of budget parts; and likely will have a lifetime of a great rifle. That actually happens quite a bit. However if it jams a lot, or shoots worse than 2 MOA with good quality ammo; then you got a bad draw. But don't worry the pedigree if it runs; as even budget AR's are actually quite good today.

As to original complaint about getting stuck on the threads - that's not supposed to happen, and is an indicator that it's probably not a very good buffer tube.

Posted: 1/12/2020 2:51:53 AM EDT

[#9]

The other thread in case anybody popping in here is curious.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Avoid-Xtreme-Gun-Worx-Emmaus-PA-total-hack-pandw-job-refuse-to-refund/12-747377/

Posted: 1/12/2020 3:02:54 AM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:
The other thread in case anybody popping in here is curious.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Avoid-Xtreme-Gun-Worx-Emmaus-PA-total-hack-pandw-job-refuse-to-refund/12-747377/

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Took me a sec to remember that one. Yet the weld job reminded me. Hell I have never welded before yet I know I could do a shit load better than that shit.

Posted: 1/12/2020 3:05:32 AM EDT

[#11]

Could you please post some pictures with stock on and off. Also where the buffer tube screws into the receiver?

Posted: 1/12/2020 3:16:16 AM EDT

[#12]

The “business” has earned themselves an advertisement on this thread IMO.
Sorry you had to pay to end up knowing what you do now. And i thought i regretted my cfa zena 4.1 for the $9-1000 i paid as my first. That build is the epitome of “run it til it dies” which may be quite handy to take some of the abuse and milage while owning nicer stuff later.

Posted: 1/12/2020 3:21:33 AM EDT

[#13]

Wonder if they somehow smashed a Mil-Spec stock on a commercial tube.

Overall pics of the gun, pics close up of the receiver and stock area.

If you know how to take the stock off (you just squeeze the adjustment lever and push down really really hard on the side pin) and then pull it off the rear of the tube we can look at pics of that too.

Imgur is free and a decent host just make the album unlisted

Posted: 1/12/2020 3:43:08 AM EDT

[#14]

Hate to say it, but there are a lot of shops assembling "custom" guns with low end parts, then charging high end prices. $700 isn't that bad, but then not giving you a build sheet should be an indication.

Had a kid at the range the other day that had spent $2,000 on his AR and couldn't get it to cycle. Quick look and find they forgot to install gas block and tube. Fortunately for him I have spares at home and we bring it back and install the parts. Everything in and on the gun was good or very good, I closing a timney trigger and krieger barrel, it just shocked me that for that kind of money they forgot 2 basic operating parts.

Posted: 1/12/2020 4:20:53 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Confused on what you mean stuck on the threads. I kinda got to the TL:DR after that. I have never had a stock that would get hung up on threads.

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Sorry for not being clear enough - stuck on the buffer thbe threads. I guess the threads on the buffer tube stick out too far, and when I fully collapse my stock it gets stuck on them and I have to give a mighty tug to get it off. It’s a pain in the ass because it effectively means I can’t fully collapse my stock, and it also rubs the paint of the buffer tube threading and probably mangles the inside of my stocks too. It just shouldn’t be a problem for something that is supposedly milspec.

Posted: 1/12/2020 4:39:22 AM EDT

[#16]

Here is a link to the pictures of the rifle.

Yes I know how to take the stock off, I’m not that new. The first picture of the whole rifle is how it came (minus the flip up BUIS. Everything else that has changed from that picture including the BCM QD receiver end plate was put on by me afterwards. Thanks guys. I’m feeling very angry now that I probably wasted several hundred dollars on something I could have easily made myself.

Look out for the keyhole markings, that’s what I was talking about earlier.

Edit: and yes, I wanted to make sure I wasn’t breaking any rules by posting the shop’s name first thing. Yes, that is the right thread that was posted and it is Xtreme Gun Worx in Emmaus PA. At this point I don’t care, maybe I would be a bit more forgiving if their owner didn’t have a HORRENDOUS attitude problem. I feel like he’s the type of guy who thinks just because he was in the army he is an expert on everything, even though he obviously can barely even use a welder.

Having been in officer training for several years now, I unfortunately run into the types like him quite often. Even more unfortunately, the ones I run into won’t just be enlisted, they will be future officers as well. Scary to think about...

Still, I take some of the blame for myself having been suckered into thinking it would be a quality rifle. Like I said, I hoped it would have been a collection of GOOD budget parts. The “kinda ugly but very good for the price” type of parts.

Posted: 1/12/2020 4:54:28 AM EDT

[#17]

The keyhole mark is for cerro forge they make forged receivers for a few different companies, can you see any markings on the barrel. How does it shoot ? Your receivers are fine you can always replace the barrel and handguard . Tools for that a reaction rod or bev block and a torque wrench maybe 150 bucks. I wouldnt be to hard on myself if the rifle shoots 700 isnt terrible not the best but its your first rifle , and you learned to stay away from that shit show of a shop.

Posted: 1/12/2020 5:42:15 AM EDT

[#18]

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Quoted:
The keyhole mark is for cerro forge they make forged receivers for a few different companies, can you see any markings on the barrel.

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Interesting. How does that work exactly? So other companies use their uppers but mark them as their own? Is that like what this shop was supposedly doing? Is there a licensing fee? Are all the uppers coming out of there roughly the same quality regardless of what company orders them?

I cant seem to see any markings on the barrel but I will double check.

Maybe this is actually made from decent quality parts, who knows. The anderson lower’s finish is not the nicest, but if it’s strong and forged, who cares, I’ll just DIY paint it or something.

The buffer tube issue was weird. I tried looking it up and had trouble finding similar issues. Maybe I just got a lemon.

Posted: 1/12/2020 5:48:31 AM EDT

[#19]

From the picture showing the extension's threads it looks like that's a milspec buffer tube which should measure 1.14" OD if I remember correctly. The threads should measure 1.16"-just slightly larger than the tube.

Is the rear of the tube at a 5° angle? Most milspec tubes have that angled end.

If the stock is hanging up on the exposed threads you can pull the stock off and use a half round bastard to take off a few thousandths of an inch of plastic right at the stock's mouth so it doesn't contact the threads. This should not affect the stability of the stock since you're only removing plastic from the first quarter inch or so of the inside of the stock tube.

Or take ten minutes and open and close the stock a couple of hundred times and the threads will cut away the excess plastic on the stock.

Posted: 1/12/2020 6:17:31 AM EDT

[#20]

Oh it’s milspec alright. There’s just something wrong with the threads. I’ve tried just using it till it wears and it never seems to. I figured they would fix the threads but instead they screwed up my stock. And did a crappy job dremelling it as well IMO.

Supposedly they thread their own barrels. Also, I saw on their facebook page they had posted “our new milspec uppers are done!” With a picture of an upper with their logo etched into it. Does that mean they actually probably did make the upper? They probably didn’t have the stuff yet to brand theirs at the time I got mine I guess.

Does that mean a brand like Cerro makes the upper and just stamps their name into it? If they threaded the barrel themselves I suppose it could make at least a little more sense why they told me they actually made the upper themselves. I don’t know why they had to be so sketchy about it though. They don’t take much time to explain about anything and then wonder why people get frustrated with them. It’s bad business. Still not convinced I made the right choice with this rifle.

Posted: 1/12/2020 6:58:49 AM EDT

[#21]

If it was me, I would sell it.
You have know idea what parts or the workmanship of the assembly quality is.
Sell it. add some money to it.
Then buy a Bravo Company, Noveske, or Daniels Defense.
These are top tier guns that you can take out of the box, lube and bet your life on.

Posted: 1/12/2020 7:28:35 AM EDT

[#22]

Did you ever say how it shot?

Posted: 1/12/2020 8:55:08 AM EDT

[#23]

I did some research and the thread problem is common with lower quality tubes.

A quality Mil-Spec tube will have the extra threads turned down behind the castle nut.

Posted: 1/12/2020 8:59:05 AM EDT

[#24]

Here is one made by a cheap Chinese manufacturer called tiger rock that looks similar to yours.

It’s barely turned down if at all.

Posted: 1/12/2020 9:05:38 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
From the picture showing the extension's threads it looks like that's a milspec buffer tube which should measure 1.14" OD if I remember correctly. The threads should measure 1.16"-just slightly larger than the tube.

Is the rear of the tube at a 5° angle? Most milspec tubes have that angled end.

If the stock is hanging up on the exposed threads you can pull the stock off and use a half round bastard to take off a few thousandths of an inch of plastic right at the stock's mouth so it doesn't contact the threads. This should not affect the stability of the stock since you're only removing plastic from the first quarter inch or so of the inside of the stock tube.

Or take ten minutes and open and close the stock a couple of hundred times and the threads will cut away the excess plastic on the stock.

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I believe you’re confused. Commercial have the angled end.

Posted: 1/12/2020 9:06:08 AM EDT

[#26]

Imho, they did you a favor OP. Now, you have an oportunity to learn about your rifle. First, I'd start by replacing the buffer tube and ring and restakeit down, second, I'd upgrade the trigger and shoot the heck out of it. Once you put 300 to 1000 rounds through it, you will know what you want to change.

As for the crappy gun shop, f em. Life is too short to be upset over some asshole and $100. You've done more damage to them with this thread than you could have gotten back from them.

Posted: 1/12/2020 9:06:27 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
If it was me, I would sell it.
You have know idea what parts or the workmanship of the assembly quality is.
Sell it. add some money to it.
Then buy a Bravo Company, Noveske, or Daniels Defense.
These are top tier guns that you can take out of the box, lube and bet your life on.

View Quote

In this market he’d be lucky to get $400 for it.

Posted: 1/12/2020 9:34:32 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
In this market he’d be lucky to get $400 for it.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
If it was me, I would sell it.
You have know idea what parts or the workmanship of the assembly quality is.
Sell it. add some money to it.
Then buy a Bravo Company, Noveske, or Daniels Defense.
These are top tier guns that you can take out of the box, lube and bet your life on.

In this market he’d be lucky to get $400 for it.

Considering a new PSA can be had for $375, he might could get $350, $400 if someone "doesnt want one registered in my name".

Posted: 1/12/2020 9:52:49 AM EDT

[#29]

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Considering a new PSA can be had for $375, he might could get $350, $400 if someone "doesnt want one registered in my name".

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Quoted:

Quoted:
If it was me, I would sell it.
You have know idea what parts or the workmanship of the assembly quality is.
Sell it. add some money to it.
Then buy a Bravo Company, Noveske, or Daniels Defense.
These are top tier guns that you can take out of the box, lube and bet your life on.

In this market he’d be lucky to get $400 for it.

Considering a new PSA can be had for $375, he might could get $350, $400 if someone "doesnt want one registered in my name".

Sure, though really - OP got at least $400 in parts plus service of the assembly. For a commercial assembler who has to hold inventory and a store front, that's not crazy; especially with some custom requested items like the handguard and such.

So far this thread is more about pedigree then anything that actually counts. I'd go put some decent glass on it and run a couple hundred rounds, and let us know how it shoots.

Posted: 1/12/2020 10:22:23 AM EDT

[#30]

If the buffer tube threads are the only problem, just mark the threads you want removed, and then find someone with a lathe and a 4 jaw chuck and turn them down. You could probably do it carefully by hand as well. If that buffer tube is the only problem you have, you should be happy.

There was a shop in the small town where I live that was building "custom" ar-15's with fake 1 moa guarantee (they just bought decent barrels, absolutely nothing else - and this was for their 6.5 grendel guns only). They built them from Anderson parts, and put on a nice looking free-float handguard, and then duracoated them. I've seen a few of their duracoat jobs. You could rub it off by hand. They typically used handguards that were secured to the barrel nut with a series of 6 screws - if you grab the handguard you could turn it by hand. They claimed to gunsmith, but I had asked them to do a pin-and-weld job on a barrel for me, to which they declined, as it was beyond their capabilities. They claimed to be gunsmiths, but had absolutely no gunsmithing abilities. They could poorly assemble an AR, and that was the extent. They were capable of nothing more than the average living room gun assembler, but touted their stuff as "full custom" rifles. Final price on their guns was $900-1800. I would think their cost was around $400 in parts. Maybe a little more, given the barrel prices. And to top all that garbage off, they wouldn't sell ar parts, as if they were some kind of mystical objects that only they could assemble correctly. They snowed a lot of people. Fortunately their store is gone now. They're still taking internet orders, but I hope they're pretty much non-existent right now.

Posted: 1/12/2020 10:38:01 AM EDT

[#31]

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I believe you’re confused. Commercial have the angled end.

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You are correct, I was in error. It is the commercial tube that has the angled end.

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Posted: 1/12/2020 11:08:40 AM EDT

[#32]

Live and learn it’s ok and we have all made mistakes before. Welcome to be forum and stick with the platform as it’s truly awesome.

How does the gun cycle and generally shoot? I’d start from there.

Posted: 1/12/2020 12:16:14 PM EDT

[#33]

I thought they were supposed to have an 07 to assemble and were required to pay the excise tax?

Posted: 1/12/2020 12:43:12 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
Interesting. How does that work exactly? So other companies use their uppers but mark them as their own? Is that like what this shop was supposedly doing? Is there a licensing fee? Are all the uppers coming out of there roughly the same quality regardless of what company orders them?

I cant seem to see any markings on the barrel but I will double check.

Maybe this is actually made from decent quality parts, who knows. The anderson lower’s finish is not the nicest, but if it’s strong and forged, who cares, I’ll just DIY paint it or something.

The buffer tube issue was weird. I tried looking it up and had trouble finding similar issues. Maybe I just got a lemon.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
The keyhole mark is for cerro forge they make forged receivers for a few different companies, can you see any markings on the barrel.

Interesting. How does that work exactly? So other companies use their uppers but mark them as their own? Is that like what this shop was supposedly doing? Is there a licensing fee? Are all the uppers coming out of there roughly the same quality regardless of what company orders them?

I cant seem to see any markings on the barrel but I will double check.

Maybe this is actually made from decent quality parts, who knows. The anderson lower’s finish is not the nicest, but if it’s strong and forged, who cares, I’ll just DIY paint it or something.

The buffer tube issue was weird. I tried looking it up and had trouble finding similar issues. Maybe I just got a lemon.

That’s just a forge mark, indicating who made the forging. It doesn’t indicate who did the final machining, which is the important part.

Here’s what that upper would look like as a forging (obviously with a different forge mark).

Posted: 1/12/2020 12:44:52 PM EDT

[#35]

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Oh it’s milspec alright. There’s just something wrong with the threads. I’ve tried just using it till it wears and it never seems to. I figured they would fix the threads but instead they screwed up my stock. And did a crappy job dremelling it as well IMO.

Supposedly they thread their own barrels. Also, I saw on their facebook page they had posted “our new milspec uppers are done!” With a picture of an upper with their logo etched into it. Does that mean they actually probably did make the upper? They probably didn’t have the FFL yet to brand theirs at the time I got mine I guess.

Does that mean a brand like Cerro makes the upper and just stamps their name into it? If they threaded the barrel themselves I suppose it could make at least a little more sense why they told me they actually made the upper themselves. I don’t know why they had to be so sketchy about it though. They don’t take much time to explain about anything and then wonder why people get frustrated with them. It’s bad business. Still not convinced I made the right choice with this rifle.

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If they’re assembling rifles from parts (with or without their name branded on them), they’re in the business of manufacturing firearms and better have the correct manufacturing FFL to do so. Putting their logo or name on it doesn’t have anything to do with it, they were feeding you a line of BS.

I’d be interested to know how large of a building they’re operating out of and if they have a machine shop. There’s not a lot of money in AR parts at the moment and it’s been that way for a few years. I’d be absolutely shocked if they were actually doing any machining on any of these parts. My bet is they’re buying the cheapest no name shit they can find in bulk and selling it. We’ve already identified the RE as being bottom of the barrel crap and the handguard looks like an Ali Baba special.

ETA: I also seriously doubt they’re buying complete, but unthreaded barrels and then threading them in house. It makes no sense and is only going to add to their cost to manufacture the rifle. Are there any marks or stamps on the barrel?

Posted: 1/12/2020 1:01:06 PM EDT

[#36]

Hate to break it to you bud, but it looks like they’re now selling your exact rifles with an RDS, case, and a box of ammo for $599.

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From the pics on their FB page, it looks like they do “manufacture” ARs using quality parts, but I’d guess you’ll be paying through the nose for them. I’m still dubious that they’re doing any actual machining in house, though.

Posted: 1/12/2020 1:44:23 PM EDT

[#37]

Seen the stock tube thread problem before. Bought a cheap after market stock kit and the stock was made so the threads did not hit it but any normal stock would jam into the threads right before it was all the way collapsed.

Posted: 1/12/2020 1:56:02 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
Hate to say it, but there are a lot of shops assembling "custom" guns with low end parts, then charging high end prices. $700 isn't that bad, but then not giving you a build sheet should be an indication.

Had a kid at the range the other day that had spent $2,000 on his AR and couldn't get it to cycle. Quick look and find they forgot to install gas block and tube. Fortunately for him I have spares at home and we bring it back and install the parts. Everything in and on the gun was good or very good, I closing a timney trigger and krieger barrel, it just shocked me that for that kind of money they forgot 2 basic operating parts.

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^ that

Random ass shops assembling AR's usually butcher them.

Posted: 1/12/2020 3:04:00 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
Hate to break it to you bud, but it looks like they’re now selling your exact rifles with an RDS, case, and a box of ammo for $599.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/294984/57D27E9C-B13C-4F0A-8D41-0AF08F985EA5_jpeg-1231272.JPG

From the pics on their FB page, it looks like they do “manufacture” ARs using quality parts, but I’d guess you’ll be paying through the nose for them. I’m still dubious that they’re doing any actual machining in house, though.

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Quoted:
Hate to break it to you bud, but it looks like they’re now selling your exact rifles with an RDS, case, and a box of ammo for $599.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/294984/57D27E9C-B13C-4F0A-8D41-0AF08F985EA5_jpeg-1231272.JPG

From the pics on their FB page, it looks like they do “manufacture” ARs using quality parts, but I’d guess you’ll be paying through the nose for them. I’m still dubious that they’re doing any actual machining in house, though.

I looked through their FB page but didn’t see any indication of specific brands or parts that they use. I may have just missed it, but if they told me they “made” the upper then maybe I somehow got something that isn’t total shit. I can only hope, but unfortunately there is no way to tell. That one selling for $599 Does look very similar to what I got, but you never really can tell what the internals are. A better quality BCG could be the difference in price there.

Would it even be worth it to call them and ask again what kind of parts they were using on their ~$700 builds around the time I got it? Probably won’t make any headway but I might as well try.

Quoted: Just curious but when you said the stock was loose on the tube later on are you sure it was the same stock and not a commercial sized one installed on a mil spec diameter tube?

It was the same stock that I bought, a milspec CTR that fit fine before they “fixed” it except for getting stuck on the buffer tube which was the buffer tube’s issue. They took a dremel to the inside of the stock to prevent it from hitting the threads. Since the inside of the stock was now larger, it now has significantly more wobble.

Posted: 1/12/2020 3:13:32 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
I looked through their FB page but didn’t see any indication of specific brands or parts that they use. I may have just missed it, but if they told me they “made” the upper then maybe I somehow got something that isn’t total shit. I can only hope, but unfortunately there is no way to tell. That one selling for $599 Does look very similar to what I got, but you never really can tell what the internals are. A better quality BCG could be the difference in price there.

Would it even be worth it to call them and ask again what kind of parts they were using on their ~$700 builds around the time I got it? Probably won’t make any headway but I might as well try.

It was the same stock that I bought, a milspec CTR that fit fine before they “fixed” it except for getting stuck on the buffer tube which was the buffer tube’s issue. They took a dremel to the inside of the stock to prevent it from hitting the threads. Since the inside of the stock was now larger, it now has significantly more wobble.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hate to break it to you bud, but it looks like they’re now selling your exact rifles with an RDS, case, and a box of ammo for $599.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/294984/57D27E9C-B13C-4F0A-8D41-0AF08F985EA5_jpeg-1231272.JPG

From the pics on their FB page, it looks like they do “manufacture” ARs using quality parts, but I’d guess you’ll be paying through the nose for them. I’m still dubious that they’re doing any actual machining in house, though.

I looked through their FB page but didn’t see any indication of specific brands or parts that they use. I may have just missed it, but if they told me they “made” the upper then maybe I somehow got something that isn’t total shit. I can only hope, but unfortunately there is no way to tell. That one selling for $599 Does look very similar to what I got, but you never really can tell what the internals are. A better quality BCG could be the difference in price there.

Would it even be worth it to call them and ask again what kind of parts they were using on their ~$700 builds around the time I got it? Probably won’t make any headway but I might as well try.

Quoted: Just curious but when you said the stock was loose on the tube later on are you sure it was the same stock and not a commercial sized one installed on a mil spec diameter tube?

It was the same stock that I bought, a milspec CTR that fit fine before they “fixed” it except for getting stuck on the buffer tube which was the buffer tube’s issue. They took a dremel to the inside of the stock to prevent it from hitting the threads. Since the inside of the stock was now larger, it now has significantly more wobble.

I highly doubt there’s any “higher quality” parts in yours totaling a $100 increase in price. Anything justifying that large of a price bump is going to be marked by whatever reputable company that made those parts, especially the BCG. They probably just felt the squeeze from the shrinking market and realized they weren’t gonna sell too many $400-$450 no-name ARs for $700 and adjusted the price to facilitate increased sales numbers.

You can also find pics on their FB of them using higher dollar lowers, uppers, rails, muzzle devices etc. (some even with their logo on them, even though they’re all manufactured by other companies) in some of their builds. Yours (and the $599 one I posted) obviously don’t fall into that category.

My guess is they’re using stuff like PSA does in their budget rifles/parts lines, all of which you can find for about $400-$450 (sometimes even cheaper) total rifle cost from a number of different retailers/manufacturers.

Posted: 1/12/2020 3:37:57 PM EDT

[#41]

Okay, so I called the place and got some more information.

They told me that they use OEM parts and that partly the reason they they don’t state the brands used is because of deals with the companies, as well as supposedly them trying to make sure others don’t “copy” their builds and then try to sell them.

Nowadays they are making their own billet receivers so that they can “quality control” them but that at the time I got mine they hadn’t gotten through that whole process yet.

Not sure I entirely buy that, if they were to show what they used perhaps they’d be afraid it would show how much the rifle is actually worth in parts vs what was actually paid for it. It sounds like a convenient excuse.

I was told that if I were to replace anything I should stay away from the barrel and BCG, he said that because they warranty their rifles it is in their best interest to make sure the barrel and bolt were high quality since they experience the most wear.

I was also told they use melonite particle barrels. I tried to approach this in a non confrontational way and was told basically that if I wanted to upgrade it and start doing modifications that the bolt and barrel are probably not going to be the weak spots.

Honestly if that is true, even if the barrel and bolt are the only high quality things in the rifle, at least I’d know the parts that matter most hopefully wouldn’t fail me. As long as the upper/lower receivers aren't total shit they don’t matter THAT much, I’m replacing the buffer tube, if the BCG and barrel is good then all that’s really left is the trigger, rail, and gas system. I’ll want to change to MLOK at some point in the future anyway.

Posted: 1/12/2020 4:03:33 PM EDT

[#42]

Thanks for all the input you guys, I appreciate all who were able to look past my cancerous first post that I was forced to post in 5 separate sections because of the new user rules

I wish I had the money to just buy a bunch of high quality parts and put something else together but I do not. I have one rifle and I can only hope its quality is somewhat decent for the price. At this time, I will take this as a learning experience. Next things I get in the future are going to be built by me and none of this will be an issue!

Posted: 1/12/2020 5:29:32 PM EDT

[#43]

More than likely the upper is anderson or psa . That shop isnt manufacturing shit maybe maybe some finishing work but i doubt even that. There new stuff is prob laser engraved. If you can find

any text on the barrel we may be able to identify it also if you pull the bolt out of the bcg does it or the carrier have any markings. As to the warranty id say fuck it cause you'd have to take it them.

At the very most they might have made 300 of you , trust me when i say most of us on here have made more costly mistakes than that. If you live near centre county we have a great range in

lewistown id be more than happy to meet up there and check your rifle out. As far as new parts i just take 20-60 out of every paycheck and squirrel it away after a few months youll have enough to

start putting a parts list together. Just from this site and youtube videos its really not that hard to build a rifle. Just take your time and dont force anything.

Posted: 1/12/2020 6:07:12 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
More than likely the upper is anderson or psa . That shop isnt manufacturing shit maybe maybe some finishing work but i doubt even that. There new stuff is prob laser engraved. If you can find

any text on the barrel we may be able to identify it also if you pull the bolt out of the bcg does it or the carrier have any markings. As to the warranty id say fuck it cause you'd have to take it them.

At the very most they might have made 300 of you , trust me when i say most of us on here have made more costly mistakes than that. If you live near centre county we have a great range in

lewistown id be more than happy to meet up there and check your rifle out. As far as new parts i just take 20-60 out of every paycheck and squirrel it away after a few months youll have enough to

start putting a parts list together. Just from this site and youtube videos its really not that hard to build a rifle. Just take your time and dont force anything.

View Quote

That is a very kind offer! Unfortunately I live well over 2 hours away from Lewistown, other wise I’d love to. I’m looking for a good range to zero in my Primary Arms 1-6x FFP Raptor that I got over the holiday on sale.

Here is a picture of the only writing on the barrel

I have not found one marking on the BCG or on any piece inside the bolt (including the bolt itself). I will check again later though, just to be sure.

I’m quite curious about this keymod rail though actually. I’ve been looking and can’t seem to find any rails that look like this one.

EDIT: I must have been blind, yes the bolt and BCG have markings.

Here’s what they look like.

The BCG has an A on it, and the bolt is labeled MPI, which I looked up and seems to mean magnetic particle inspected?

Posted: 1/12/2020 6:51:11 PM EDT

[#45]

Im not sure on the barrel a more knowledgeable member may recognize the text. But the carrier sounds like its AO precision which is a nice carrier i think they swapped out bolts though. The AO

bcgs ive found should have HPT ( high pressure test) AND MPI ( magnetic particle inspection). Bolts can be found for 40 to 100 bucks depending on what your looking for. I personally wouldnt

worry about it as long as it cycles. There are a few upper end companies that believe HPT testing can weaken the bolt, centurion for one and i own several of there bcgs and they run perfectly.

As far as the rail are there any markings , most companies have moved onto mlok , bcm and larue still make keymod but its definitely not from one of them.

Posted: 1/12/2020 6:54:45 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
That is a very kind offer! Unfortunately I live well over 2 hours away from Lewistown, other wise I’d love to. I’m looking for a good range to zero in my Primary Arms 1-6x FFP Raptor that I got over the holiday on sale.

Here is a picture of the only writing on the barrel

I have not found one marking on the BCG or on any piece inside the bolt (including the bolt itself). I will check again later though, just to be sure.

I’m quite curious about this keymod rail though actually. I’ve been looking and can’t seem to find any rails that look like this one.

EDIT: I must have been blind, yes the bolt and BCG have markings.

Here’s what they look like.

The BCG has an A on it, and the bolt is labeled MPI, which I looked up and seems to mean magnetic particle inspected?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
More than likely the upper is anderson or psa . That shop isnt manufacturing shit maybe maybe some finishing work but i doubt even that. There new stuff is prob laser engraved. If you can find

any text on the barrel we may be able to identify it also if you pull the bolt out of the bcg does it or the carrier have any markings. As to the warranty id say fuck it cause you'd have to take it them.

At the very most they might have made 300 of you , trust me when i say most of us on here have made more costly mistakes than that. If you live near centre county we have a great range in

lewistown id be more than happy to meet up there and check your rifle out. As far as new parts i just take 20-60 out of every paycheck and squirrel it away after a few months youll have enough to

start putting a parts list together. Just from this site and youtube videos its really not that hard to build a rifle. Just take your time and dont force anything.

That is a very kind offer! Unfortunately I live well over 2 hours away from Lewistown, other wise I’d love to. I’m looking for a good range to zero in my Primary Arms 1-6x FFP Raptor that I got over the holiday on sale.

Here is a picture of the only writing on the barrel

I have not found one marking on the BCG or on any piece inside the bolt (including the bolt itself). I will check again later though, just to be sure.

I’m quite curious about this keymod rail though actually. I’ve been looking and can’t seem to find any rails that look like this one.

EDIT: I must have been blind, yes the bolt and BCG have markings.

Here’s what they look like.

The BCG has an A on it, and the bolt is labeled MPI, which I looked up and seems to mean magnetic particle inspected?

IIRC, A stamped carriers come from AO Precision, a common OEM for a lot of “manufacturers.”

Posted: 1/12/2020 7:06:37 PM EDT

[#47]

How about some pics? However, I doubt it was made from high quality parts. Anderson lowers, while good to go are the absolute least expensive forged lower you can buy. The issues with your buffer tube lead me to suspect they bought that from the lowest cost supplier too. I'd guess the rail is a sub $100 rail too. What markings are on the barrel? Having said all of this, I'd guess you have less than $400 in parts on the gun, and they made $300 or more on the sale.

Posted: 1/12/2020 7:13:59 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
How about some pics? However, I doubt it was made from high quality parts. Anderson lowers, while good to go are the absolute least expensive forged lower you can buy. The issues with your buffer tube lead me to suspect they bought that from the lowest cost supplier too. I'd guess the rail is a sub $100 rail too. What markings are on the barrel? Having said all of this, I'd guess you have less than $400 in parts on the gun, and they made $300 or more on the sale.

View Quote

Are you guys not getting my pictures? I’m linking the photos I uploaded to imgur and I thought they were of decent quality.

LMK if you guys are seeing the pictures of the BCG and bolt.

Can anyone confirm from the picture that is an Aero marking?

Posted: 1/12/2020 7:25:51 PM EDT

[#49]

I can see your pics threw your link. The A on the bcg is for AO precision i havnt seen any aero precision markings

Posted: 1/12/2020 7:32:02 PM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:

Are you guys not getting my pictures? I’m linking the photos I uploaded to imgur and I thought they were of decent quality.

LMK if you guys are seeing the pictures of the BCG and bolt.

View Quote

We can see them. Some people merely read the first post of a thread and immediately hit "Reply" without reading any following posts.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is this sketchy? I feel taken advantage of... (Page 1 of 2)

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