User Panel
Posted: 4/25/2018 4:17:44 PM EDT
Arfcommers, the highly anticipated 1-6x24 FFP Raptor is live and ready to ship on the Primary Arms website! This is perhaps our biggest product launch of the year. We've been working for years on engineering a first focal plane low powered variable scope, and we've come up with a winner. This post is just for you!
A quick note on FFP vs. SFP: All previous Primary Arms 1-6x low power variable optics are built in the second focal plane configuration. The reticle appears to be the same size regardless of what magnification the scope is set to. Shooters who like a large reticle that catches the eye quickly even at 1x may prefer the SFP configuration. The Primary Arms KISS reticle is a good example of a reticle that works great in SFP-- it is just a large chevron aiming point with no advanced functionalities. However, our more complex ACSS reticles that present a lot of information to the shooter can seem "busy" as they fill up so much of the field of view with hash marks, wind dots, ranging ladders, etc. And this ties into one of the minor disadvantages of SFP-- all that ranging and holdover information is only "true" at maximum magnification, 6x. At the lower magnifications, the math doesn't add up in an SFP scope. SFP fans will tell you that it isn't much of a disadvantage, because if you are trying to estimate range or use a BDC to hit targets far away you are probably at maximum magnification anyway. FFP fans say that they don't want all that stuff in their field of view until they can actually use it correctly. In a first focal plane scope the reticle is etched onto a different piece of glass and the internals are arranged differently. In a first focal presentation, the reticle actually stays the same size all the time, but as you zoom in on the field of view using increased magnification you are effectively zooming in on the reticle too. This means the information presented in a smart reticle like ACSS is always correct no matter what magnification the scope is set to. Imagine the reticle is just hanging out there in space the whole time, but with increased magnification you see less of what's around it and more of the reticle itself. This can be a good thing or a bad thing-- fine crosshairs in a 1-6x scope would be so fine and tiny at 1x that they would actually take longer for the eye to pick up, and would slow you down up close. The best part about the first focal plane presentation is that you get a ton of field of view without a big reticle in the way at 1x, and then a full reticle with usable information that helps you take long distance shots at higher magnifications. Enter ACSS Raptor Primary Arms developed the ACSS Raptor reticle to optimize the benefits of a 1-6x FFP setup. Raptor has bullet drop compensation, wind holds, moving target leads, and some range estimation, all surrounded by a thick semi-circle "horse shoe" that's familiar to Primary Arms ACSS shooters. At 1x that horse shoe shrinks down to act as a circular aiming point. Some people say it looks like a big red dot. It reminds me of the old "donut" reticle from the original Steyr Aug integrated scope. Here is an illustration of what Raptor looks like at 1x vs 6x. At 1x you get a very fast, uncluttered sight picture with a small black or red (depending on your illumination setting) circle that is super fast for snap shooting. It's great for offhand shooting up close. If you are stretching your abilities while shooting unsupported, cranking the scope up halfway to 3x is a good call. You can see the center chevron better and start using the BDC. If you need to shoot accurately at longer ranges than you can hold offhand, go supported from your bench, bipod, rucksack, etc. and go ahead and set the magnification to 6x and use the reticle at its largest available size. That's where the wind holds and range estimation abilities come to life. Raptor is available in two types. PA1-6X24SFP-ACSS-RAPTOR-5.56 works with 5.56 NATO, 5.45x39, .308 Win, and some 6.5 Grendel loads PA1-6X24SFP-ACSS-RAPTOR-7.62 works with 7.62x39 and 300BLK supersonic / subsonic 5.56 Version: 7.62x39/300BLK Version: You can see just the difference in bullet drop between these calibers just by looking at the length of the BDC ladder compared to the horse shoe. Pretty cool huh? Raptor also has wind holds and moving target leads but I'm going to skip showing those diagrams here so this post doesn't get even longer. The Bottom Line The hard part about building a 1-6x24 in first focal plane is keeping it accessible; keeping it affordable. Our Japanese-made Platinum 1-8x24 is a first focal plane scope, but it is $1300. The great thing about the 1-6x24 FFP ACSS Raptor is that we managed to squeeze the first focal plane engineering into the same 1-6x scope body that Primary Arms customers know so well. This scope body is proven tough, it has been a huge success for us, and using it again means we (and therefore you the customer) don't have to pay for new tooling, testing and development, and all those associated costs. Here's what it looks like: Two important changes to note from our previous 1-6x scopes that use this same body: first, adjustments are 0.25 MOA per click instead of 0.5 MOA per click, and you get 50 MOA of adjustment total. So, very fine adjustments, lots of wiggle room for different setups. Second, eye relief is improved. The 1-6x SFP scopes have an eye relief from 3.3 to 3.5 inches. That's pretty good. These 1-6x FFP scopes have an eye relief of 4.0 to 4.3 inches, so there's plenty of room between your eyes and that quick-adjust eyepiece. You also get improved glass quality with 1-6x FFP Raptor. That's a big part of what makes FFP more expensive, if you try to do FFP with poor glass you get really awful results in the real world, so the glass HAS to be better for the product to be worthwhile. When we took Raptor to Media Range Day at SHOT Show this January, everyone was impressed with the glass quality and every single shooter was able to hit a steel torso target at 500 yards. When shooters realized they had hit a 500 yard target with a $399, lifetime warranty scope, well, we won over some people that day. Now you can experience the 1-6x FFP Raptor for yourself! Links to buy are below, I'll be checking Arfcom every day to answer your questions! Primary Arms 1-6x24 FFP Raptor 5.56 NATO Primary Arms 1-6x24 FFP Raptor 7.62x39 / 300BLK |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Rex Reviews somehow snagged one of these early and posted a nice review.
What is the Best DMR Scope Under $400? - PA 1-6x24FFP ACSS RAPTOR ~ Rex Reviews |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Primary Arms FFP 1-6x Scope With Raptor Reticle Review |
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It's hard to tell from the pictures and videos, but how does the glass compare with the first gen Strike Eagle? |
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I'm really impressed with the reticles you guys have been doing over the years. This scope looks like a great budget option.
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Originally Posted By amoeba1126: It's hard to tell from the pictures and videos, but how does the glass compare with the first gen Strike Eagle? View Quote |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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News flash, both 5.56 and 7.62/300BLK 1-6x24 FFP Scopes with the ACSS Raptor reticle are now available in Wolf Grey! Same price, same warranty, same scope, different anodizing.
1-6x24 FFP ACSS Raptor 5.56, $399 with lifetime warranty 1-6x24 FFP ACSS Raptor 5.56, $399 with lifetime warranty |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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ETA on the platinum 1-8 ffp with this reticle? My checkbook is primed and waiting!
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Originally Posted By HUFFCHAD:
ETA on the platinum 1-8 ffp with this reticle? My checkbook is primed and waiting! View Quote I want the Platinum with the Griffin reticle for my FN FAL, which is a DMR build and has weird ballistics because it's a 16" suppressed FAL. I'll get better results at long range using the grid system... |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike: Not for awhile, sadly. And by awhile I mean, you can use your Christmas money for it. I want the Platinum with the Griffin reticle for my FN FAL, which is a DMR build and has weird ballistics because it's a 16" suppressed FAL. I'll get better results at long range using the grid system... View Quote |
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike: Yes. The Platinum version is a bit thinner, a bit crisper, and partially instead of fully illuminated. http://primaryarmsoptics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/PA1-8X24FFP-ACSS-RAPTOR-M2.jpg View Quote |
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Edited my post above yours. Yes ETA before the end of the year.
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Any chance of a different raptor reticle in the 1-6x?
Personally, I’d love a lightweight 1-6x platinum in a 30mm tube. |
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What kind of "different Raptor reticle" are you thinking of? I don't know of any plans, but I'm always interested in feedback from real shooters. What doesn't it do that you need it to do?
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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For the reticle, I was thinking one similar to the raptor in the platinum.
While I love my 1-8x platinum; in fact I sold mine so I can fund the new platinum coming out with the new reticle However, I feel that the 1-8x is perfect for a DMR but not ideal for a fighting rifle. I think a lighter-weight, 1-6x with a 30mm Tube with platinum glass would be great. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still a novice shooter and I’m just getting into training now. These are more of my initial impressions from handling the optic while mounted to my rifle. That being said I think half the problem was that my rifle was too heavy on its own. I bought a new 14.5” rifle that’s much lighter than my 16” UBR’d recce. Your products are amazing and come Christmas time, I will be buying the new reticle 1-8x platinum |
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike:
News flash, both 5.56 and 7.62/300BLK 1-6x24 FFP Scopes with the ACSS Raptor reticle are now available in Wolf Grey! Same price, same warranty, same scope, different anodizing. http://www.primaryarms.com/SSP%20Applications/NetSuite%20Inc.%20-%20SCA%20Mont%20Blanc/Development/img/PA1-6X24FFP-ACSS-RAPTOR-7.62-WG_00.jpg?resizeid=7&resizeh=0&resizew=2000 1-6x24 FFP ACSS Raptor 5.56, $399 with lifetime warranty 1-6x24 FFP ACSS Raptor 5.56, $399 with lifetime warranty View Quote |
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Nonne delectaimini? Nonne hoc est quare adsitis?
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omg i want the griffin, so it will be available christmas? and how do these hold up compared to strike eagles? im really rough on my gear i do alot of multi gun and it will be beaten
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Originally Posted By disruptiveoperator:
omg i want the griffin, so it will be available christmas? and how do these hold up compared to strike eagles? im really rough on my gear i do alot of multi gun and it will be beaten View Quote We named the new first focal plane 1-6x the "Raptor" because the F22 Raptor is more advanced than the F15 Strike Eagle. Get it? That was Dimitri's idea. The 1-8x Platinum featuring the ACSS Griffin reticle will be ready some time this fall, maybe even closer to Black Friday than Christmas I hope. That's a fully Japanese made scope that is built like a tank, with a 34mm main tube and amazing glass quality. The only downside is the weight-- if you want toughness and light weight, you'll pay through the nose. Even at $1300 we had to choose to make it heavier in order to get the 1-8x Platinum "duty grade" tough. |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike: Griffin is available now in 1-6x and 1-8x second focal plane flavors. Those are extremely comparable to Strike Eagle in terms of quality. We named the new first focal plane 1-6x the "Raptor" because the F22 Raptor is more advanced than the F15 Strike Eagle. Get it? That was Dimitri's idea. The 1-8x Platinum featuring the ACSS Griffin reticle will be ready some time this fall, maybe even closer to Black Friday than Christmas I hope. That's a fully Japanese made scope that is built like a tank, with a 34mm main tube and amazing glass quality. The only downside is the weight-- if you want toughness and light weight, you'll pay through the nose. Even at $1300 we had to choose to make it heavier in order to get the 1-8x Platinum "duty grade" tough. View Quote |
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Where are these made?
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china
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Originally Posted By Donster_125: Out of curiosity, what new reticles can we expect in the 6-30x platinum? Any 6.5cm options? View Quote ATHENA BPR is a MIL / MRAD based grid reticle with subtensions of .1 MRAD, .2 MRAD, .5 MRAD and 1 MRAD for ranging and holdover purposes. You have a total of 15 MRAD down from center to work with, and 6 MRAD in horizontal markings extending left and right of center (for a total of 12 MRAD horizontally). HERA BPR is an MOA based grid reticle with subtensions of just 1 MOA throughout. This makes HERA one of the most accurate reticles in the world for extreme long distance range estimation and holdover shooting. We incorporated some tricks to make navigation easy, but HERA is still the most complex and precise reticle we have ever produced. You get 50 MOA of vertical holdovers underneath the center, and 15 MOA in horizontal markings extending left and right of center (for a total of 30 MOA horizontally). Dimitri and I want to put the APOLLO CM reticle into the 6-30x Platinum as well, but that is just a desire right now, not an official plan. APOLLO is amazing and will get a 6.5 CM out to 1000 yards in 20 mph winds using BDC and holdovers. The native loading is Hornady's 140gr ELD. No counting clicks, no running math, if you can estimate the range and wind you can simply hold over all the way out to 1,000. However, if want to push PAST 1,000 yards, either ATHENA or HERA is the better choice, because you're going to need to interface with a ballistic calculator and factor for barometric pressure and a bunch of other variables, then translate that to your choice of MRAD or MOA. A BDC won't be consistent enough past 1,000 yards for us to say "hey just use this loading and this barrel length and it should work." There's too much to account for. APOLLO CM will be available later this year in our new 3-18x50 scope. |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Been looking for a scope with magnification to trade off my 300BLK SBR when I go to the range.
Looks like this will do nicely. |
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Hi Mike
Love the new Griffin FFP reticle diagram. When you said the scope will be more weighty, how weighty are you taking? I once bought a 22oz 1-8 Burris scope for my SBR- totally bad idea completely threw off the rifles handling; moved it to the SCAR17 thinking that would be more sane but it turned the SCAR into bloated pig as well. After that experience I have 16oz as a preferred upper weight for a scope going on a rifle I plan to run around with. If the 1-8 is going to be as heavy as it sounds any plans to put the griffin on a lighter scope? |
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Originally Posted By Vinhsynd:
Hi Mike Love the new Griffin FFP reticle diagram. When you said the scope will be more weighty, how weighty are you taking? I once bought a 22oz 1-8 Burris scope for my SBR- totally bad idea completely threw off the rifles handling; moved it to the SCAR17 thinking that would be more sane but it turned the SCAR into bloated pig as well. After that experience I have 16oz as a preferred upper weight for a scope going on a rifle I plan to run around with. If the 1-8 is going to be as heavy as it sounds any plans to put the griffin on a lighter scope? View Quote |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Very nice.
I own many of your Scopes, and appreciate the value and quality. I try to spend my money wisely.... and Primary Arms gets a lot of it. |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
I look forward to some more reviews
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Originally Posted By gsx469:
I look forward to some more reviews View Quote Primary Arms Raptor 1-6x Cheap but awesome |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Mike,
any chance you guys are going to make a 1-6 Platinum version? I think if they did it would kill the Vortez 1-6 and be a top scope. Just checking! |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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I've LOVE to get this in a 1-8x24 non-platinum.
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike: It looks like this WILL happen, but don't expect to actually be able to get one before the next presidential election. It's at the bottom of the pile for our development cycle. View Quote But seriously, I've got the 1-6 SFP version now so I was hoping to get a little more power if I upgrade to the FFP model. If it's going to be 2 years then that also give you guys time to work out FDE/Bronze coloring so HOPEFULLY, it will drop on the market with that color option. The Vortex Razor HD GenII-E is SO sexy! :D |
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Not even gonna lie, we have that Vortex Gen II in our sights, so to speak. That thing is the industry gold standard LPVO right now in my opinion, and I think every other manufacturer including us needs to look at that scope and go "Ok folks, so what's it going to take for us to beat THAT? That's our goal."
In the meantime, if you can't beat 'em, you might as well sell 'em. I do think our Platinum 1-8x is a good competitor and worth considering. You get 2x more magnification, a better reticle system (ACSS rules!), and it's also excellent Japanese glass, and roughly the same coin. So, we're in the ballpark and competing at least. |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike:
Not even gonna lie, we have that Vortex Gen II in our sights, so to speak. That thing is the industry gold standard LPVO right now in my opinion, and I think every other manufacturer including us needs to look at that scope and go "Ok folks, so what's it going to take for us to beat THAT? That's our goal." In the meantime, if you can't beat 'em, you might as well sell 'em. I do think our Platinum 1-8x is a good competitor and worth considering. You get 2x more magnification, a better reticle system (ACSS rules!), and it's also excellent Japanese glass, and roughly the same coin. So, we're in the ballpark and competing at least. View Quote What I will say is that if you could make a Platinum 1-6x 30mm tube scope with the Raptor M2 reticle, I think you would literally corner the market. Even if it weighed as much as the old Razor Gen II as opposed to the current Razor GenII-E, I think your reticle alone would make it worthwhile. You could price it lower than your 1-8x Platinum and you would be king of the market in my honest opinion. As a disclaimer, I used your 1-8x platinum until you announced your M2 reticle. I sold my 1-8x and now I am waiting on the Canadian distributor to bring in the M2 version. It works perfectly with my 18" SPR. |
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They do have plans to expand the Japanese made Platinum line but I am not really privy to them yet. There's nothing definite enough that I would put it in a public forum for folks to hang their hopes on. But there will be some action there next year.
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Any projected date for them to be back in stock?
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About a month or so, mid-November.
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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You have my interest. When will I be charged for this if I pre-order? Thanks in advance.
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"...One Nation, Under God, Indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for All."
NEVER FORGET 9-11-2001 I am STILL pissed off. |
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Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Looks like right away. View Quote We only charge the card once the product is in the box and about to go on the truck (literally a couple of minutes before it goes on the truck). If you are within the time period of the pre-authorization, it just dings your card instantly without having to "ask" a second time. If too much time has passed since the pre-authorization and that pre-authorization has expired, I believe it hits you with ANOTHER pre-authorization, then once it's verified that you have the funds available it hits you with the actual charge. So, for a few hours it might look like you got charged twice, if your online banking app doesn't show the difference between the two transactions. We never hit anyone's card "for real" until we have their physical product in a box sealed up with their name on it and ready to head out the door. Any other policy is a social media reputation disaster in 2018. This way of doing things is complicated, but it protects us from scammers (of which there are MANY) and it protects our consumer from "whoops, I forgot I hit pre-order on this thing and now I'm overdrafted by $400", which you better bet they blame US for when it happens. |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Now make them smaller.
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I love my beautiful hot wife
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Heard about some delays on this...my backorder got pushed back another month.
Any info from the PA guys? |
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Originally Posted By 3D-Seth:
Heard about some delays on this...my backorder got pushed back another month. Any info from the PA guys? View Quote |
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Marketing Employee for Primary Arms, LLC.
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Originally Posted By PA_Mike: Yeah, they delayed the release of another eagerly awaited new product in order to build more of these and get them into our inventory as quick as we can. I won't say which product but in other threads where people are going "Hey when is this scope actually going to come out" the reason that scope isn't coming out is because we told the factory to build us more Raptors ASAP. View Quote |
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I agree 100%, putting this in my "Stocking List" :-)
Dave |
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