I got a bug in me today, and decided to price out a retro build.

Not including the A1 reproduction furniture Brownells is to be releasing soon, the parts come up to just under 1,000. All new. Then the tools and coating is another 100. I'd predict about 1,225 after all is said and done. This seems awfully expensive. For not too much more, I could buy a completed rifle from fulton armory. What are some things I could do to lower the cost, aside from hitting sales/discounts?

I'm aware not all the parts are period correct. Reason being is I either couldn't find the correct part to begin with, or they wanted an insane amount for it that I won't pay. I chose mostly windham parts because I own an A4 type and I absolutely love how smooth it is, and I want that feel in this rifle. Parts will be posted in a followup post due to character limit...

*Parts list amended to reflect better parts*

Brownells Part #'s added.
Individual roll pins / springs excluded.

Barrel Assem. [100-021-012WB] LINK

Gas Tube: [100-023-342WB] LINK

Flash Hider: http://www.fulton-armory.com/flashsuppressor3prong.aspx

Lock Washer: http://www.fulton-armory.com/flashsuppressorlockwasherfa1and3-prongsuppressors.aspx

Lower: https://www.rkguns.com/anderson-stripped-7075-t6-multi-caliber-ar-lower-receiver-ar15-a3-lwfor-um.html

LPK: https://www.rkguns.com/anderson-manufacturing-5-56-223-lower-receiver-parts-kit-am-556-lw-part.html

Buffer Tube assem.
https://shop.windhamweaponry.com/collections/buttstocks-parts/products/8448581-b
https://shop.windhamweaponry.com/collections/buttstocks-parts/products/8448629
https://shop.windhamweaponry.com/collections/buttstocks-parts/products/8448615

BCG: https://shop.windhamweaponry.com/products/8448501?variant=32698634638

Rear Sight Assem. http://www.fulton-armory.com/rearsightcompletea1.aspx

Ejec. Port: https://shop.windhamweaponry.com/products/kit-epc?variant=32698462478

Fwd. Assist: [100-015-495WB] LINK

Upper: [080-001-303WB] LINK

Charging Handle: [078-101-153WB] LINK

Prices have gone up, but you can still build a visually authentic one for well under a grand if you're not in a hurry.

They definitely have. The saving grace here is the ability to buy a few parts at a time and not dump the end cost all at once.

I managed to squeeze it down to just under $800 by choosing a different receiver, lower parts kit and charging handle. No more FFL fees ($50 saved), lower is now $60 ($90 saved), and the parts kit is ~$20 less. I compared the stripped anderson lower to the 'M16A1' lower, and aside from a small detail on the structure by the buffer tube threads and color, they look identical. Lower parts kit is also an anderson brand, which I like. At least I can take advantage of the $20 off $200 order from brownells a couple times and save about $60 that way, plus free shipping from windham.

I know you like Windham Weaponry products, and there is nothing wrong with them, but the barrel you have picked out is a government profile barrel (A2 style) and not a lightweight pencil barrel like a M16A1 would have.  A delta ring, A2 flash hider, and crush washer would not be correct either since an A1 would use a flat slip ring, A1 flash hider, and a split lock washer.  This only matters if you want it to look as much like a M16A1 as possible but that is really up to up you.  I think most of us on here would suggest getting a pencil barrel and flat slip ring for this build though.  Brownells sells a correct looking complete A1 retro 1:12 twist barrel that even comes with the flat slip ring, they are out of stock right now, but may be an option to consider.  Del-Ton sells some inexpensive lightweight barrels in 1:9 twist that can get you a little closer looking, not entirely correct, but definitely better then a government profile barrel, and maybe more cost effective for you.  I think AR15Sport has some even better 1:9 twist pencil barrels in stock that are comparable to Brownells except for not having the original twist rate as well.

I definitely would not suggest going with a complete Fulton Armory rifle.  There are better built M16A1 clones out there in that price range.  Again nothing wrong with Fulton Armory products they just tend to be overpriced for what you are getting.

An original M16A1 parts kit is a good option.  They are much more expensive then they used to be but even if you spend $700-$800 for one, add a barrel, and an inexpensive A2 lower, you will be around $1,100.  And when done it would be more correct then just about anything else you could assemble with all new parts minus the A2 lower receiver.

Personally I build them both ways, I assemble retro rifles with all original used and new parts to be as close to being correct as possible except for some lower receiver limitations and then I also build some that ressemble various models of retro rifles but with more modern parts, materials, and barrel twist rates to accommodate different ammunition and shooting conditions.

I'll have to look into those barrels. Apparently I glossed over them too quickly. Main reason I have that barrel selected is because I haven't found another. I will admit that I'm not a fan of the idea of 1:12 in this day and age with 1:7 and 1:9 being plentiful. Only having looked on brownells (I think I checked out midway) the only A1 style flashiders I could find were going for about 70 dollars, which is flat out ridiculous in my eyes. Wasn't able to find the appropriate handguard ring either, but I'll definitely check out the sources you mentioned.

It doesn't have to be a 1:1 match for me to be happy with it (in fact there are a couple things I'm considering leaving more modern), but the closer the better.

Thanks for the tips, I'll give those a good look tomorrow and adjust as necessary.

Where have you tried shopping? Something doesn't sound right? 70$ flash hiders. You can find better prices without trying hard at all..

before you mentally dismiss a 1/12... perhaps you should consider a more legit build.
If it is your only one eventually having a jacked up retro clone will bother you. Maybe not now but later it will.
Find a brownells barrel and go from there. Find a parts kit.
Use the Anderson lower if you cant afford a NDS.

It depends too on how exact a replica you want to build.

I just finished my "A1-ish" clone.  I picked up the stripped lower about 10 years ago; can't remember what I paid for it - I think about $50.  You can get some forged stripped lowers now for $30..

Here are the parts I used:

Brownell's:
231115003 60688 AR-15 LOWER RECEIVER PARTS KIT $39.99

080001303 AR15 M16A1 UPPER RECEIVER (NDS): $150

100024409 BLEMISHED AR15 20" A1 RIFLE BBL ASSY $184 (but I have a claim into my CC company for another $40 off since they went on sale).

430000522 AR-KIT-CH CHARGING HANDLE ASSEMBLY $26.68

231000063 F620985 FORWARD ASSIST ASSBLY TEARDROP $13.99

078101154 M16A1 FLASH HIDER $6.99

078000250 M16 BOLT CARRIER GROUP MP/HP $129.99

231000086 F1001641 GAS TUBE ROLL PIN $1.50

231000085 F1003020 A2 GAS TUBE STD $13.29

080000554 BROWNELLS A2 RIFLE STCK COMPLETION KIT $59.99

078101141 AR-15 EJECTION PORT COVER ASSEMBLY $5.99

I picked up an A1 front sight post from user jhud here for $12.

I picked up an A1 flash hider washer from user M16indiana here for $5.

I believe I got the Rear Sight assembly from Fulton Armory for $59.99

I believe I got the handguard and buttstock furniture from Royal Tiger Imports years ago for about $40.  The handguards were great, I had to refinish the butt stock.

Had to get a new butt plate - I think I got it off of ebay or Amazon for about $10.

So my total cost comes to (I shudder as I add this up now): 795.41

Those barrels are normally $100 more, though.

Like I said, mine is kind of a retro-ish A1 build.  I could put some money into a correct triangular-shaped charging handle, and then the only glaring issue would be the receiver.  

But those details don't bother me - I was not out to build a replica - I just like the look of AR15s with solid buttstocks and triangular handguards and carry handle uppers with iron sights.  :)

This sounds like the barrel you wan't OP, it comes with the A1 slip ring too. > Link.

I have been waiting on this barrel for quite a while now though... It's the only "retro" barrel that Brownells hasn't had in stock since they started having Ballistic Advantage make their "retro" line of barrels.

I am also finding that assembling parts for my A1 build is very expensive. Though that is mainly due to the fact that most of the parts that I am buying have to meet two strict standards, (NEW and COLT).

Specialized Armament has been a great source for new old stock Colt A1 parts but they aren't cheap. I have also been buying Colt parts from Brownells to take advantage of their free shipping.

I will also be using the Brownells A1 upper, lower and furniture set when it becomes available.

231000086 F1001641 GAS TUBE ROLL PIN $1.50 ?

Some of you guys are paying too much for parts.

FOR Example: I get my GAS TUBE ROLL PIN for 10 cents each at JSE.

I get the gas tube w/ roll pin from there also for $10.

I shop around for my parts and watch for sales and usually build for under $ 600.



Good luck! Don't get in a hurry and pay the higher prices.
IMHO
Ron

Flahs hider , a regular A1.. saw it sold in the EE this morning at 40$.
Is this real?? Those things are 12-15$ other places.. Are they running out or something?

Here is one with lock washer for $22.

Great thread. The days of cheap kits are over. The prices are a direct byproduct of the popularity of retro right now. Most retro members enjoy the hunt for parts and the thrill of a bargain. The actual build is secondary. This allows for true "shopping" for parts. I believe the prices stated for "order me now" are correct.

Just wait until the true retro black rifle disease really kicks in. The time when every pin and part must be date correct for you. Right now you are building run of the mill early 80's 603 look alikes. When the bug hits and hits hard, prototype, 601, 602, and 607 builds will be on your menu. Those require custom made parts, repro parts or the holy grail, original parts. Just wait, you will be happy with the current prices.

Welcome to the club boys! I hope you can hang on for the long hall and truly enjoy the desease and all the fun (and empty wallets) that come along with it.

I buy my new A1, A2 and 3 prong flash hiders for $6 or $7 each.
I just add a few of these and other small parts to fill out and order.

When they are on sale I get them for less than $5 each...........

Warning: There are a few vendors with cheap prices that have cheap parts.
I read the reviews as a guide.  
There is a section for Industry. Before I buy from them I read up on the vendor.
If I see some bad reports on parts, I just pass on buying parts from them.

Ron

When you buy colt surplus parts instead of repops you dotn have to worry about bad stuff or reports or anything.
Sounds like you are into buying aftermarket parts if every style is the same price.

Oh absolutely.  This was my first build, and I hardly knew what parts went into an AR15.  If I was to build another one, I would scour the internet and price shop and all that.  But basically when I saw the blemished barrel go on sale that was what triggered me to just go buy parts and get this thing built - I've been sitting on the receiver and HG/BS hardware for over a decade.  I really like Brownell's customer service and web site - if they had the part I bought it there without even price shopping.

The biggest problem with Brownell's right now is they are just out of stock of so much retro AR stuff.  I would expect a big-name company like Brownell's to basically be a one-stop shop for buying A1/A2 AR15 parts.  If this stuff is as popular as it seems to be I'm surprised Brownell's doesn't stock complete build kits.  Hopefully with the rumored new HG/BS hardware they will become more of a one-stop shop with regularly-stocked retro AR parts.

Steve

Yes, that is correct.
Now I am just building fun rifles and carbines, so it really does not matter for me.
Many of the new guys are now just trying to buy what they can afford.
That is a start. I am thankful that there are vendors making/selling parts for those that cannot afford original Colt parts.

I did my collector rifles back in the 70's and 80's most were build with original Colt parts.
Parts were so cheap or free back then.
I seldom take them out of the safes, most have never been fired.
I also have several built on low serial number NODAK lowers.

I collected parts for many years ( I am now opening up boxes and get surprised at what I find) and now I use the aftermarket parts as fillers on my builds now.
I am a disabled combat vet and seldom get to shoot any of them, but I still enjoy building them a lot and the hunt for parts is the fun part.
Over the last few years I have bought some junk parts, even a few Colt parts that were junk. Sold as very good condition but really not much better than fair condition.

I have enough of the collectable rifles/carbines and really do not need any more. This leaves the original Colt parts for others to buy.
I use the built rifles/carbines as parts storage. When I need a part sometimes I take a part off and install it on another one.

Ron
I have many boxes of the original A2 parts to soon start building some day and many boxes of after market parts.

This is just for fun for me. It is good to help me to keep moving my hands and arms.
I know I ramble on sometimes....................

It is a passion that has a real place in many of our lives..
So I feel the same way.
Ive been on this kick since a kid.
Always had a fascination of the M16. It is Iconic.
If I didn't have this to piddle with I would Probably be doing something else.
The M231 stock modification I made, that I drew up as a kid. The regular stock was too long.
Its been in my blood a while. RBRD.
The thing is now I can afford to make things I think of instead of drawing it.

I see so many threads about people simply complaining about prices of things.
I think some would do better by going to the EE and asking. You don't know what you can get without asking... People seem so excited to by some new mystery furniture that might wind up being cheap and ugly plastic, because they go look at collectors point or something and think h/gs should cost 200$... when its in reality a small fraction of that if you look in the right channels... They would come out better asking for a lightly used actual quality product in other areas.

There are apparently still kits at What a Country:

http://whatacountry.com/colt-m16a1-parts-kit.aspx/

add a barrel and cheap lower, you end up in the same ballpark price-wise but with more genuine original parts.

A big 'thank you' to the guy who linked me to a 1:7 pencil barrel. Not sure why I couldn't find that.

Found an A1 bird cage, so I swapped that out and finally found a slip ring. I was not aware the A1 version was not called a delta ring. I'll go through and re-price the build, I'm expecting under 900 still.

All the info really is a big help. Looking forward to having a nice clone to keep my A4 style AR company.

Hey, that's pretty cool!

Steve

I'm curious to see how long it takes to see some more retro barrels out of Brownlls let alone the 1:7 twist barrel.  Just keep in mind a 1:7 twist barrel is awfully fast unless you are planning on shooting a lot of heavy ammo over say 62-grain and then with iron sights you probably won't do a whole lot of real long range shooting needing 75-grain ammo and up.  1:12 is good for 55-grain and it will shoot 62-grain ok if needed.  Ideally I prefer 1:9 twist because it will pretty much handle anything well but I definitely wouldn't go out of my way to build a retro rifle with a 1:7 twist barrel unless you are only going to shoot heavy ammo.

I like 1:7 (based on my possibly flawed understanding) that if I chose to use heavier bullets then that option is always there without any limitations. It's also a bonus for me, personally, because the rifle I already have is also 1:7 so therefor I don't have to worry about having different weights of ammunition for different rifles, knowing both (or more in the future) will all be cozy using the ammunition I buy. Makes things easier.

Also, that is one sweet machine maillemaker. I may have to set that as my background while I build my own

I built my first A1 around 2014, using a parts kit that I got from Sportsman's Guide for $360 (I wish they were that much now!). In all, with the barrel and lower, it was around $700.00

I used an Anderson Lower for it, and at the time, that was more than fine. As a little time wore on though, I really wanted it to be as 'correct' as I could make it. After all, it was made to represent the rifles that I carried while I was in the Army.

Right now, I'm in the process of building an XM16E1. I got a NoDak Spud 80% NDS-52 (Partial Fence) and had Braceman do the custom engraving for me. I wanted to have US Anodizing do the anodizing, but they aren't taking any 'little guy' jobs right now, and may not for most of the rest of this year. So I'm kind of stuck waiting on that, or using Moly Resin.

Doing the proper lower, with custom engraving and all that, will add a couple hundred dollars to the overall price, but I wanted it as correct as I could make it without spending $20,000.00 on a real M-16. I wanted those little details. When a family member or friend picks up that rifle, they won't know that the serial number is my date of entry into the Army, but I will. When they pick up my A1 (once I do a new lower for it), they won't know that its serial number is my ETS date. But I will. I want those little details there, as unimportant and insignificant as they may be to most people, they're important and significant to me and worth the little bit of a premium that I'll pay to have them there. If I'm going to put $950 to $1,000.00 into a rifle, then adding $200 for those little touches, is ok with me.

Plus, I'm going to do it so that I'll actually come out with more cash than when I started, as opposed to spending (new) money on it.

I have a PSA M4 that I've had for about 2 years. It's my least favorite of all of my rifles, so I'm going to sell it. If not entirely, then at least the upper. The lower may become a gift to a family member. He lives in Maryland, so he'd have to buy a new 'compliant' upper anyway.

Along with a few other things that I don't need/want/use, I'll have most of the new rifle paid for with the proceeds. The remaining will come from opening a new Capital One credit card. They have a bonus offer on one card where if you spend $1,000.00 within the first 90 days, you receive 20,000 bonus points. That translates to $200 in gift cards. I'll get Wal-Mart cards and use them for my grocery shopping. So that's $200 off the price of the rifle. Or, I could go with one of their other cards that would give me 40,000 points ($400 in gift cards), but you have to spend $3,000 within the first 90 days to get that.

I can easily spend the money to get either bonus, but I only want to spend what I would normally spend, and pay it off immediately so no interest will build up. If you let interest build up, it just eats away at any gains you made with the gift cards.

Plus, if I get another parts kit for the upper, there will be some parts of it that I won't use. Like the FA FCG, the Type E stock and the FSB. Those are things that I can either keep, or sell to lower the price of the new rifle.

So when you plan out your build, don't just look at how much it will cost. Look at ways that you can offset that cost with other means. Do you have anything around the house that you can part with? Put it on eBay. Will you use everything from your parts kit? If not, sell them on EE or GB. Can you take advantage of a credit card offer, to get up to $500 in cash back/gift cards? If so, jump on it.

I've gotta agree with the other folks about being careful on going with parts that may bug you later. Most important, A1 lower and the correct barrel profile when you want it to look AND feel right.

Looks like you are having a good look around at your options and getting good advice from arfcommers. I always like threads like these. The main reason for being on this forum.

Oh, and you will be sure to post pics please! The other reason to be on the retro forum.

You can build this more cheaply, I'm sure, but ar15sport.com has a blemished USGI Colt upper, barreled (not Colt, as far as I know), for $850: http://shop.ar15sport.ihoststores.com/productinfo_v3.aspx?productid=RET-CLT-A1BLEM

All you need is the lower receiver, stock assembly and lpk, and you're all set.

@VaBeachGuy: Thank you for your service. That's a job I could never do. Although, that's where your build and mine will differ. Not drastically, but less authentic than yours. I turn 19 this year, and the closest I've ever gotten to the military is my uncle. I wish I had something unique or significant I could add to it, but unfortunately I don't. I suppose the satisfaction of "I built that" is enough for me.
Since a good portion of my parts are coming from Brownells, I can get it just right on $200 for each order and use that promo code to take $20 off. May not amount to much, but $20 is a box of ammo or an extra magazine.
Speaking of lowers, though... I looked at the Anderson receiver (what I have picked out) and the Brownells M16A1 lower receiver and.... they look identical; to my eyes. I've also never seen a true M16A1 in the flesh, so I'm sure there's something I'm missing. I plan on amending my parts list to reflect the changes I've made.

I have considered a parts kit, but I just can't pull the trigger (pun intended) on it. From my eyes, there's two perspectives. Perspective one, my favorite, is taking old parts with stories to tell and putting 'em back in action; kind of like an old car that sat in a barn for a couple decades. On the other hand, and I hate to put it this way, but they're used parts that have gone through literal hell and back for brand new price. Not to mention, it would be my luck that the parts kit I got would be haunted (kidding). I guess there's that bit of charm for it, but what compelling reason is there to pay top dollar for used parts? Authenticity?

And yes, I will post pictures as I get parts and assemble.

One thing I'm debating is whether or not I want the A1 bird cage or if I want a 3 prong design. Whenever I hear "m16A1" I think of it having a three prong design. I fear the a1 bird cage will bug me.

It's nice to see you are giving a lot of thought and planning to build what you want the way you want

I think an Anderson A2 lower is an excellent choice for a retro type build on a budget or to hold you over until an A1 becomes available.  Anderson lowers have basically normal looking SAFE/FIRE markings compared to others on the market and they are only marked on one side so from a quick glance they look correct and they are inexpensive enough that you don't mind painting or coating them a more correct color or even modifying them to visually look more like an A1 lower.  I use them all the time for my new retro builds basically as stand-ins until I receive NoDak Spud A1 lowers for them which we all know can be a long patient wait.

Though the majority of all M16A1s made throughout the years used an A1 birdcage flash hider a fair amount of early ones did have three prong flash hiders.  As a general rule of thumb if you are using a three prong flash hider then you should also use a type "D" non-trapdoor buttstock.  When using a type "D" buttstock you can actually use either a three prong or birdcage since both were used with that style buttstock.  And if you are using a type "E" trapdoor buttstock then you should have an A1 birdcage flash hider.  Again build what you like this is just for a correct build.  You would be surprised how many people build M16A1 clones from parts kits or furniture they pick up with type "E" buttstocks and then put three prong flash hiders on them because they think the A1 birdcage flash hider is wrong for the build and install a three prong instead.  The three prong flash hiders are definitely sexier and though they were only used for a brief period in the beginning compared to the whole life span of the M16A1 people still associate the "M16" with having a three prong flash hider.  Personally I prefer type "E" buttstocks so I tend to use a lot of A1 birdcage flash hiders on my rifles though it is nice once in while to be able to use a three prong when the build calls for it.

The three prong was on early A1's, someone else may know how long it was used for the A1 but the longevity of the A1 being as long as it was, it's safe to say that the majority of all A1's had the birdcage. The three prong proved to be problematic in the field. In my time in the Army, I think I only ever saw dummy A1's (used during bayonet training) with 3 prong's. So for me, when I think of the A1, it's always with the birdcage. But that's just because that's all I ever experienced them having.

I thought about buying a Brownell's upper and building it up from scratch, but it's a reproduction and for me, if the genuine Colt parts are available and I can get the finished rifle for about the same price, I want the genuine parts. I've also read that the Brownell's uppers had some issue, but I've never really seen what the problem was. Maybe someone else here knows and can shed some light on that.

Another thing that stopped me from going with Brownell's is they anodized it the wrong color. They're anodized black, not XM Gray. The color being wrong would just bug me. Also, the lower parts kit that you linked in an earlier post, has an A2 pistol grip. If you really want to keep it close to the A1, don't put an A2 grip on it. ar15sport.com has A1 grips in the $10 to $12 range and you may even be able to find them cheaper.

As for the lower receivers, the Anderson will work just fine. It just doesn't have the 'right' profile for an A1. The differences may not be noticeable to anyone that doesn't know what to look for, but if you know what they are and you want to be as 'authentic' as possible, you'll see them every time you look at it (or at least I would). Here's a thread that talks about the differences:  https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/575112_A1_A2_Lower_Differences.html

You can also go to http://retroblackrifle.com for information on the various differences.

The differences are basically cosmetic, so if you stick with the A2 lower, that's not really a big deal. Besides, if you want to change it later, it's an easy thing to do.

Price out the build both ways though, once with the Brownell's reproduction parts and once with genuine Colt parts and see what the price difference is. Then go from there. I'm going to order a Parts Kit soon, so if you want to see what the parts look like (in my kit, at least), I'll post pictures.

However you go though, I think you'll enjoy shooting the A1. To me, it's a sweet shooting rifle. The A2 that I have is pretty nice too, but if I had to carry one in the field again, I'd probably pick the trusty old A1, but I fully admit my bias. I slept with an A1 by my side many a night, but never touched an A2 until about 2 years ago.

Oh, and I was 19 when I picked up my first A1... which my anniversary of leaving for Basic Training actually just passed on the 27th. We got to the Reception Battalion at about 2 am on the 28th. My first Army meal was Veal... veal at about 3 am, then we were up in formation by about 7 am. Didn't actually do anything until the 31st though, because it was Memorial Day weekend.

Oh, to be 19 again... lol

I fully understand the genuine colt part, however to me once their refinished (however I wind up doing it) they're the same. Thank you for the pics of the receivers, btw. I didn't notice how different they really were. I'll have to give that some thought....

And yeah, I realize the pistol grip part. Tried to find a kit without the grip, but I couldn't seem to find one. I definitely will not use that part, as that would definitely bug me. I plan on replacing the pistol grip on my A4 type with an A1, actually. That finger notch doesn't fit my hand very well. I have no problem putting it in a drawer or selling the grip.

As far as what stock I'll end up with, I have no idea (outside of it being A1). Depends what Brownells releases. I'm eager for that. It'll likely wind up with the three prong. The only trouble I'll have is figuring out a way to tighten the thing without spending 30 dollars on a wrench I'll use once. Screwdriver between the prongs?

The Brownells prototype A1 buttstocks at Shot Show were the earlier type "D" style but depending on when you are planning on undergoing this endeavor I'm not sure how long it is going to be before those are released.  Everything in the reproduction retro world seems to be either super slow or sometimes going backwards.  You might want to start looking for some nice used furniture sets in the meantime.  It appears like we won't see any new reproduction A1 retro parts until after Colt releases their M16A1 reissue rifle even though we have been told by multiple sources that one has nothing to do with the other.........  It has been hard enough to find one person or company to attempt making some of these parts so it only stands to reason could there possibly be two different places out there doing it at the same time??

Brownells is a great company that tries to deliver good products and stand behind them.  Unfortunately so far they have taken some very expensive hits with their retro line of products.  First their original batch of A1 uppers had the carry handle channel machined wrong on some of them and then the gas port over drilling issue on a lot of the barrels.  I'm afraid with all these losses they might be becoming a little gun shy (pardon the pun) with bringing out more new retro products quickly or even at all.

I build on what is out there now and what I can find now not on what might be coming down the road.  The original and nos parts are only becoming harder to find not easier so waiting doesn't benefit a build and it definitely doesn't help your wallet any either.  About the only item I am seeing more of right now is handguards, not that there was a shortage but everyone seems to be selling them.  Nice buttstocks on the other hand have doubled and sometimes tripled in price just since a year ago.  Will the original used parts drop in price when their reproduction counterparts hit the market?... yes of course they will... mainly because those that don't want, need, or care about original parts will buy the new ones.  But if the reproduction parts are never made or sold then waiting for them is pointless and may end up costing you more.

None of the Brownell's links are working.

Would like to see the parts if you can fix them.

Brownells said they'll supposedly come out this summer, but wasn't specific on what month it was. You are right, they are only getting harder to find. I think I'll gamble and wait the 3 months of summer and see what happens. I doubt much will change in 3 months.

As for why on earth the links did what they did, not a clue. I'll redo them, but I'm unsure if that'll fix them permanently. I may have to link to a google doc or something and share the favorites themselves or post part numbers as well as links.

EDIT: Redid them, even used the 'link' code, but no go. Part numbers are there, but this appears to be an issue on brownell's end or something in the forum's code that's disturbing them. Doesnt' seem to be something I can fix, although I find it odd that it's only the brownells links....

EDIT2: Decided to poke around, and it appears I can buy the A1 furniture (along with other A1 hard-to-find parts) from Fulton. Found the A1 sight post there.

Any parts kit that doesn't have one, would likely be around the same price as what you'd pay for a kit with it. So I wouldn't worry too much about finding one without it.

As far as the refinishing goes, for the original Colt upper, I probably wouldn't re-finish it if it was in good shape. Again though, that's just me (though I'm sure there's others who feel the same). I want the original patina (as long is it's not totally ate up).

What's your max budget, tha absolute most you're willing to spend? I'm sure there's people here that can point you in the right direction to help maximize your buying potential.

The absolute top-dollar max I'm willing to spend is $1,100. Main reason I'm looking at refinishing is because the upper, lower, etc are all different colors. I'm considering Brownells Gun Kote. I'd like to have the parts 'cerakoted' (I think that's how it's spelled) but I have no idea how much they'd want for that.

I actually just got some Moly Resin in the mail today. Since I can't get the anodizing done for a good while, I'll go ahead and use that to finish my lower. Also, something to be sure to factor in, is the cost of the FFL transfer fee for your lower. Call around and find the cheapest place you can find. Some places here charge $75 to do a transfer, the cheapest that I found is a fish store, they charge $20. The way I found them, was to go to grabagun.com and add a firearm to my shopping cart, and go through the process as if I was going to buy it. That took me to the FFL selection, which gave me a lost of most of the dealers in my area. From there, I just called until I found the cheapest one. Or are you going to actually buy the lower locally as opposed to ordering it online? If so, that would save the transfer fee.

I very much dislike the stocks that Fulton Armory has, though. That slot for the rear sling swivel would drive me nuts.

I'd have to price it out, for a full upper build using the Brownells upper, but I think doing it that way may actually make the rifle a bit more expensive than getting a parts kit. Especially if you factor in the parts of the kit that you won't use, and can in turn sell. Like the Full Auto fire control group or the front sight (assuming the barrel that you get, has one already installed). If you go with a Type D stock, then you could sell the Type E stock and if you go with a 3 prong, you can sell the birdcage. So, let's just say you get between $150 and $200 for all those sold parts. That just made your $1100 rifle, $900 to $950.

Another great place for parts is gunbroker.  Just do not fall into a bidding war and you can get good deals (sometimes).  As for finish I like Norrels Moly coat in blackish grey and it is a great match and holds up well.

That's exactly what I just got in the mail today. This will be my first time using it. Has anyone ever applied it with a Preval Sprayer? I haven't ordered a spray gun yet, but if the Preval will work just as well, I might do that.

3Here my build with an a1 what a country kit. Some pictures were there but it came out nice

I just pulled out some old pictures from back in the day, and looking at the rifles, our A1's had Type D stocks... if I didn't have those pictures, I'd have sworn to my dying day that they were Type E, but pictures don't lie and their memories don't trick them lol.

Now I need two Type D stocks... having a Type E on my A1, when I have photographic evidence of my last service rifle having a Type D, will bug me to no end! lol

Oh, and TheArcticWolf1911, I completely understand wanting a perfect match between the upper and the lower. Totally reasonable to want that, and that's what I want as well but if there's a bit of a difference, that wouldn't be unauthentic to what a soldier might have. The interchangeability of the uppers to the lowers meant that uppers could wind up on any given lower and the colors may not match... sometimes just a little, sometimes by a good bit.

So the slot in the buttstock isn't 'correct'? I'm still learning quite a bit about these rifles, although I know my way around one decently well.

I'll definitely sell any parts I don't use, unless it's something I could use as a spare, like a BCG or the like.

The lower receiver I have in mind (coming from RKguns) thankfully ships to their own stores if you want them to, and I have one close to home. The only extra fee I'd have to pay is 10 dollars for shipping it, assuming they didn't have it there in the case already. I love RK Guns, they have a lot of great prices. Especially 5.56 for 35 cents per shot. Brass cased.....

Your telling me.....I'm coming up with the cash for an original colt m16a1, brand new in the box....

If you want an A1, especially with a 3 Prong, no that slot is definitely not correct. Take a look at this site for some images of Type D and E stocks: http://bpullignwolnet.dotster.com/retroblackrifle/ModGde/RflGde/603A1.html

Ah, I see. Anyone ever buy from these guys before? I'm considering the set for 148. A little Krylon satin black will make 'em look like new. Perfect for bumpers, so it ought to be just fine for furniture.

https://uscollectorsordnance.wixsite.com/usco/early-m16-m16a1-furniture

I've never bought from them, but I've seen some comments on here from people that have. Like anything, there were positives and negatives. Some saying they were overpriced, some saying the parts were in great condition and they were happy.

If I were to buy a set from them, that's the set I'd buy (the $148). But I'd upgrade to the Type D stock, as that's the one I'll need for my XM 16 E1 build. I had considered buying that set, along with my parts kit. That would give me a choice of the better pistol grip and hand guards. Then I'd sell the kits Type E stock, along with the grip and hand guards that I didn't use.

My Dad was in the Army and served in Vietnam (1968-69) and in a few pictures of him with his rifle it appears to have a type "D" buttstock with an A1 birdcage flash hider.

Good enough for me. I still would prefer brand new with today's plastics (er, polymers) but if those don't show up, I'd be happy with these. Yeah, 2018 is going to be a retro year. I pondered doing this, building up a Remington 700 308 for 200-300 yards, or a marlin 45-70 lever action.... but this one is seriously causing my nautical vessel to become buoyant.

One thing is for sure, my A4 will also receive the A1 grip. I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but I hate that finger notch. Something this A1 type will also receive, even though it's not correct, is that gapper that fills the space between the trigger guard and grip. The edges on the lower really chew up my middle finger. I put one on my A4, and I love it.

Link and part number to those interested.... "Ergo Grips - AR15 Gapper" [573-000-004WB] http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=j3dt191hby00zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Frifle-parts%2Fgrip-parts%2Fpistol-grip-accessories%2Far-15-gapper-prod25084.aspx

Yeah, it's just been so many years ago that I just didn't recall having the Type D on any of my service rifles. I would imagine that in Vietnam, a lot of rifles were upgraded from the 3 prong to the birdcage, even if nothing else was changed on the rifle.  


I think I would look at a 'modern' commercially sold plastic stock, as a downgrade from the original USGI stocks. You have to remember, they were made to be 'soldier proof' lol.

Since you mentioned the trigger guard, I'm sure most everyone here knows this, but the trigger guard swings open, for shooting in gloved hands.

Yeah, true. The gloves I wear aren't too big for the trigger guard, I'm just one of those people that can't do anything without actually feeling.

Yeah, I have no real instances now, where I'd be shooting with gloves on. But believe me, when it's 10 degrees outside, you don't really want to feel the trigger. lol

Hopefully I'm never forced to use my weapons in that type of environment....or forced at all, really. I would love nothing more than to dive right into this build, but unfortunately my tires had to wear out on me. That and I need storage. Menards has a 10 rifle cabinet for just under 100 bucks. If i hit it right, I can grab it on an 11% rebate. Also wanting one of those wide flat top toolboxes (bottom box) to store tools, parts, and handguns in. Yes, I'm ambitious, lol.

EDIT: One other thing. Is there any difference in sight bases (other than the possible issue of diameter) between A2 and A1? I don't see any differences, and it looks like both will work on the barrel (when .650 diameter) with either the A2 or A1 sight post.