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Page AR-15 » AR Pistols
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 2/22/2021 7:25:54 PM EDT
Hello all, opinions needed. I have just completed a PSA AR9 pistol build. I know angled foregrips are considered legal on these types of weapons. My question, is a FAB defense 7 position foregrip legal if used in the angled position or does the grip need to be a "fixed" angle? Any input is appreciated.
Link Posted: 2/22/2021 7:28:40 PM EDT
[#1]
All the ones they supposedly OK'd, are fixed.
I wouldn't mess with anything adjustable.

YMMV.
Link Posted: 2/22/2021 7:31:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
All the ones they supposedly OK'd, are fixed.
I wouldn't mess with anything adjustable.

YMMV.
View Quote

This.
Pretty much no one will care but why give anyone a reason to raise an eyebrow- hand stops are a good option.
Link Posted: 2/23/2021 10:14:57 AM EDT
[#3]
IMO, I would be safe and go with the hand stop. Btw, welcome.
Link Posted: 2/23/2021 11:21:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Yea, I'd stay away from the adjustable angle stuff. Fixed is what you should use. MagPul and Stike Industries make some decent ones. There are others, usually made from billet aluminum that are a little more costly than polymer.
Link Posted: 2/23/2021 11:34:26 AM EDT
[#5]
I understand 'braces' are manufactured as 'braces', designed to be used as a 'brace', but could be shouldered if one so desired.

Does anyone manufacture a 'hand stop and/or barricade stop' designed to be used as a 'hand stop and/or barricade stop', but could be grabbed with one hand if one so desired? Similar to a vertical grip with knurling in the front, designed and intended to be a 'hand stop and/or barricade stop'?
Link Posted: 2/23/2021 12:03:53 PM EDT
[#6]
You are safe with a handstop or fingerstop.

Angled grips are murky.   90 degrees is a VFG.  Is 89 degrees OK?

Not much has been said on adjustable grips, but I would avoid unless over 26 inches (firearm).

I have a mixture of handstops, fingerstops, and several BCM angled grips on my pistols/firearms.    

Link Posted: 2/23/2021 2:37:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Strike Industries has some new ones that are less than 90 degrees

Link Posted: 2/23/2021 5:02:35 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Strike Industries has some new ones that are less than 90 degrees

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lDLbIjr3AQI/maxresdefault.jpg
View Quote

I have 3 BCM's, but I looked hard at that Strike shorty.
Link Posted: 2/23/2021 6:47:27 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Strike Industries has some new ones that are less than 90 degrees
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Only 86 degrees?  What is this, an angled foregrip for sheep?  Real men use 89.99999 degree foregrips.
Link Posted: 2/23/2021 10:57:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Strike Industries has some new ones that are less than 90 degrees

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lDLbIjr3AQI/maxresdefault.jpg
View Quote


Poking the bear?
Link Posted: 2/24/2021 10:36:19 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
Poking the bear?
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A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of a sheep bear.

I will never understand this scaredy cat "poking the bear" mentality.  It's no different than driving 45mph in a 45mph zone.  If I'm not over 45mph then I'm not speeding.  If the foregrip isn't 90 degrees then it's not vertical.  Getting close to the limit of what the law allows is not breaking the law.??
Link Posted: 2/24/2021 11:01:19 AM EDT
[#12]
What would stop the ATF from simply adjusting the grip from angled to 90 degrees when evaluating the weapon....that's a problem.
The reason that vertical grips (a second grip) are a no go on pistols is because pistols are defined as being designed, made and intended to shoot with one hand. We all know pistols are commonly fired with two hands (also designed, made and intended to be), so the entire concept is stupidity. Also, an angled grip is still a place for a 'second hand' to hold the pistol, same as a vertical grip would be, utterly stupid.
I feel like a God of logic enslaved by idiots.
Link Posted: 2/24/2021 11:48:27 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:

A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of a sheep bear.
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And we don't need no stinking badges?  They have badges
Link Posted: 2/24/2021 10:15:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I feel like a God of logic enslaved by idiots.
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We are in fact enslaved by idiots indeed.
And your assessment of the vertical foregrip situation is exactly right. There is also no legal definition of "vertical." ATF gave their opinion once that it was 90 degrees, but they didn't specify measurement precision. Some people here think that because  89.99999 is not equal to 90 so therefore legal, but by that argument, no grip ever would be exactly 90 hence it would ban nothing at all. Therefore, a margin of error must exist. It could easily be argued that 90 +/- 30 degrees is "vertical" for the purposes of this law. Moreover, ATf opinions are fickle. Case in point, under the most recent guidance, the ATF is now taking the stance that they can just look at the total configuration of parts and declare it to be not a pistol based on their subjective opinion of how it was intended to be used.

Most importantly, ATF opinions are not laws, they don't make anything legal or illegal... they are literally just considered an expert witness opinion which the judge/jury may or may not choose to side with.
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 2:11:21 PM EDT
[#15]
IMO, as pointed out above, if it's adjustable and capable of being adjusted to 90 degrees, it'll be used against you in a court of law (but not necessarily why you're there to begin with).
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 4:44:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
... Case in point, under the most recent guidance, the ATF is now taking the stance that they can just look at the total configuration of parts and declare it to be not a pistol based on their subjective opinion of how it was intended to be used.

Most importantly, ATF opinions are not laws, they don't make anything legal or illegal... they are literally just considered an expert witness opinion which the judge/jury may or may not choose to side with.
View Quote


Indeed, and in a court run by the government, the government's expert witness is often perceived as having the most credibility.

Current information is that anything that even implies that a second hand is meant to be used on a pistol makes it an AOW or SBR in the eyes of the ATF.  Handstops, angled foregrips, and vertical foregrips all fall into the same bucket now.

Angled foregrips and hand stops are no longer "safe".
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 7:38:11 PM EDT
[#17]
So what I’m surmising is..put it on for intended home defense, make sure it’s angled by the time LE shows up if I ever have to use it to defend my family. Remove it completely before leaving my home if I intend to transport or take it to the range. Thanks all! Let freedom ring..
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 7:57:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 7:33:25 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So what I’m surmising is..put it on for intended home defense, make sure it’s angled by the time LE shows up if I ever have to use it to defend my family. Remove it completely before leaving my home if I intend to transport or take it to the range. Thanks all! Let freedom ring..
View Quote


I wouldn't.  

A 16" rifle, 18" shotgun, or regular sidearm pistol for HD = no gray areas or fiddling around to worry about.

Do what you want. Best of luck.
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