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Posted: 5/26/2021 9:25:21 AM EDT
[#1]
My understanding is that it penetrates a lot better. Slower moving, heavier projectiles usually beat light and fast in terms of penetration, but that is entirely up to bullet selection.
Given that, 300 should be better for bears and barriers. If I were going into bear country, I would opt 300 over 5.56, but I don't know much. |
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Posted: 5/26/2021 9:30:42 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: I am strongly looking at a Daniel Defense ar pistol to take camping. Does a .300 blackout run as reliably as a 5.56? How much more real world effective is it than a 5.56 on bears, hogs, and barriers out of a 10 or 8 inch barrel? Out of that short of a barrel the .300 would offer much better terminal ballistics, especially with the 110gr Barnes TSX or Hornady GMX loads. |
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Posted: 5/26/2021 9:31:32 AM EDT
[#3]
If you’re going to get it specifically for bear country, I would go .308 or 30-06.
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Posted: 5/26/2021 9:31:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Out of that short of a barrel the .300 would offer much better terminal ballistics, especially with the 110gr Barnes TSX or Hornady GMX loads. This |
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Posted: 5/26/2021 9:44:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you’re going to get it specifically for bear country, I would go .308 or 30-06. Plenty of bears have been taken down, or turned back, by 9mm. Why do you think he needs to bump up to .308/30-06 and be pushed into a much larger rifle or have something more obnoxious to shoot without ear pro? The 300blk from DD will do fine OP, won't have any reliability issues outside some random QC issue but DD will take care of it for you. |
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Posted: 5/26/2021 9:50:29 AM EDT
[#6]
People have killed bears with everything, but if you aren't bringing a full sized rifle and cartridge I think I would follow the handgun line of thought - which is heavy, hard cast bullet moving as quickly as possible.
300 blk will do this much better than 5.56. the only downside is most factory heavy ammo is very slow. If you reload, I'd make some 220+ grainers with a harder than normal lead and push them as fast as possible. If you don't reload maybe check some of the smaller boutique ammo sellers that do a lot of cast With all things being equal I would consider a sub 10" 300blk to be more reliable than a sub 10" 5.56 as the entire thing was designed around that size barrel and excels with pistol length gas systems |
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Posted: 5/26/2021 10:03:02 AM EDT
[#7]
I don't know how reliable it is yet, but planning on getting 300BLK.
I have no problem seeing it used for bear protection. Note that subsonic, heavy bullet ammo is loaded to lower chamber pressure than .lighter weight, supersonic ammo. Make sure the firearm is reliable with the ammo used. That's more important than which bullet weight might be most effective. It has to fire reliably first. The BCM 300 BLK barrels all have pistol length gas systems, even the 16 inch barrels. BCM recommends using a lightweight buffer with subsonic ammo and a heavy weight buffer with supersonic ammo. Some load guides show the chamber pressure and the heavy bullet loads are much lower pressure than the lighter bullet loads. |
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Posted: 5/26/2021 11:17:26 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plenty of bears have been taken down, or turned back, by 9mm. Why do you think he needs to bump up to .308/30-06 and be pushed into a much larger rifle or have something more obnoxious to shoot without ear pro? The 300blk from DD will do fine OP, won't have any reliability issues outside some random QC issue but DD will take care of it for you. Have you ever shot a 400 pound bear at 40 feet? I have. I’m glad I didn’t have handgun ballistics. |
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Posted: 5/26/2021 11:23:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you ever shot a 400 pound bear at 40 feet? I have. I’m glad I didn’t have handgun ballistics. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Plenty of bears have been taken down, or turned back, by 9mm. Why do you think he needs to bump up to .308/30-06 and be pushed into a much larger rifle or have something more obnoxious to shoot without ear pro? The 300blk from DD will do fine OP, won't have any reliability issues outside some random QC issue but DD will take care of it for you. Have you ever shot a 400 pound bear at 40 feet? I have. I’m glad I didn’t have handgun ballistics. No clue on the distance but yes, I've fired at a charging bear but not with a handgun, used my 8.5" 6.8. A 8-10" 300blk can utilize some rather impressive supersonic loadings that will give rifle ballistics, penetrate the skull of a bear and shatter bones throughout. ETA: My original post was not intended to advocate he utilize a pistol or subsonic loadings, merely to point out that one doesn't need a .308/30-06 to effectively take down a bear in most of USA. |
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Posted: 5/26/2021 11:25:55 AM EDT
[#10]
I definitely didn’t want a smaller gun.
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Posted: 5/26/2021 3:37:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Even with basic 125 / 144 rounds, my 9" 300 put some healthy holes in
1 armadillo at approx 50m 1 "charging" skunk at approx 20m 1 really large snapping turtle at approx 20m With defensive stuff, I wouldn't hesitate to take on a bear within its (gun/ammo) maximum effective range. But when messing with something that sees you as the main course, you best be quick. |
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Posted: 5/26/2021 5:37:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 5/26/2021 5:41:52 PM EDT
[#13]
So, you are prepping to take on bears behind barriers? Are they wearing body armor?
 Only ever used it on hogs, a 147gr FMJ will zip right thru one from an 8" barrel. |
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Posted: 5/26/2021 6:54:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Bears 45-70 or 12ga slugs.
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Posted: 5/26/2021 9:04:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People have killed bears with everything, but if you aren't bringing a full sized rifle and cartridge I think I would follow the handgun line of thought - which is heavy, hard cast bullet moving as quickly as possible. 300 blk will do this much better than 5.56. the only downside is most factory heavy ammo is very slow. If you reload, I'd make some 220+ grainers with a harder than normal lead and push them as fast as possible. If you don't reload maybe check some of the smaller boutique ammo sellers that do a lot of cast With all things being equal I would consider a sub 10" 300blk to be more reliable than a sub 10" 5.56 as the entire thing was designed around that size barrel and excels with pistol length gas systems True, but you left out one small detail, MEPLAT. Heavy hard cast game bullets have a wide meplat which creates a nice wound channel when pushed fast. Does anhyone make a 220 grain 30 caliber bullet with a decent meplat? There isn't a lot to work with there. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 4:50:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you ever shot a 400 pound bear at 40 feet? I have. I’m glad I didn’t have handgun ballistics. .44 Magnum ballistics by ft-lbs, if that means anything to you I suppose. My 110gr Barnes load is flawless* in my PSA 300BLK pistol, probably 300 rounds of that load alone through mine. *when I do my part-only issues I've had were trusting that commercially prepped brass I sourced was to spec, which it wasn't. I'm sure factory ammo (what is that? Lol) would work without issue. I'd have zero issues trusting that pistol with my life. I've tested it, the ammo, and the magazines enough to satisfy my expectation for reliability. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 5:17:38 AM EDT
[#17]
300BO will be fine. I carried mine for several years and does an amazing job on East coast black bears. Shot placement is key... and if charging volume of fire is welcomed.
I would carry the Barns 110gr and it did well. I currently carry a 458 SOCOM for bear hunting and does a great job  . |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 4:16:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I currently carry a 458 SOCOM for bear hunting and does a great job .This. Except it'll be difficult to control the recoil in a pistol. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 6:05:01 PM EDT
[#19]
What kind of bear ? This matters. Small Black Bear , Grizzly ? What ?
Wounded critters have plenty of fight in them to cause you great pain. To be blunt both your caliber suggestions are meant for smaller critters... not Bears. It is my understanding that Bears have a thick hard skull. ( The part facing you when it charges ) Personally, I would prefer something that offered fool proof penetration. With a reasonably fast follow up shot. And when I think penetration against thick bones , neither the .300BK or the 5.56 would be my choice. It really isn't a matter of which is more effective... it is a matter of what could save your life. Just my 2 cents. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 8:31:41 PM EDT
[#20]
9" 300 black with a can is my go to camp gun. I can sit in a chair by the fire and thwack just about anything I can see all day with subs without disturbing anyone. And when it's bed time I swap mags to Barnes 110's in case something really needs shooting.
Never ran a 300 as hard as a 556, like in a carbine course for instance. But a few hundred rounds over a long weekend, no problems. Use quality parts, mags and ammo and it'll run just fine. Most problems I've heard are from 556 mags not liking the heavier and longer subs or guns not liking subs without a can. |
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Posted: 5/27/2021 8:37:01 PM EDT
[#21]
I've got a Daniel Defense .300 SBR, with the 10.3 inch barrel. 300 has some limitations in my opinion - you need to choose bullet construction to make sure these lower velocity rounds will expand effectively. I reload, and unfortunately with reloads I find 300 to be a little less reliable than reloads in a 5.56. My DD seems to be sensitive to case sizing, and sometimes struggles with brass that gauges ok, but that might be do to the fact that I run a mix of subsonic and supersonic loads, and I'm constantly trying to load and use the oddball 30 cal projectiles I have in my reloading stash. With factory ammo, I'd say it's as reliable as an AR in 5.56. If I had to shoot a bear, I'd prefer to use the 300 over a 5.56 because with most loads you'll see better penetration.
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Posted: 5/27/2021 9:22:30 PM EDT
[#22]
If you are going with a really short barrel, go .300blk over 5.56. Short barrel 5.56 can be made to run reliable, but .300blk is better suited for it.
Keep in mind the best bullets for .300blk run on the lighter side (a lot of 110gr rounds with a few others up to 125grs) Will it stop a charging bear? I don't know, I've never been in such a situation. Probably depends on the shooter and the bear. I'm guessing it could...but....this is one of those "would you bet your life on it" kinda deals. |
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Posted: 5/28/2021 12:33:49 AM EDT
[#23]
44 mag - as prior poster shared.
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Posted: 5/28/2021 11:56:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Go 12 gauge with slugs!
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Posted: 5/28/2021 6:54:11 PM EDT
[#25]
If you're not going with a .45x AR, how about a .350 AR? Ruger offered a 9" pistol which I no longer see on their website.
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Posted: 5/29/2021 10:56:54 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're not going with a .45x AR, how about a .350 AR? Ruger offered a 9" pistol which I no longer see on their website. 350 Legend is excellent for hunting and would have more power. But I would not trust it for self defense....especially out of a really short barrel. Straight wall round like that that seems to be asking for feeding issues when you need it most. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 3:36:31 PM EDT
[#27]
are you going to be walking combat ready all the time with your ar? you can dream for a situation where you see it running at you far enough away you can bring it up and pop off one or 2 steady shots.
more like youll have enough time to feel the shit squirt out your ass and the warmth as you try and draw it up fast enough to get it on target. |
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Posted: 5/31/2021 10:27:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: I am strongly looking at a Daniel Defense ar pistol to take camping. Does a .300 blackout run as reliably as a 5.56? Yes How much more real world effective is it than a 5.56 on bears, hogs, and barriers out of a 10 or 8 inch barrel? I would prefer .300blk in those barrel lengths, but bullet selection for either is also an important factor. |
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Posted: 6/1/2021 1:10:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: are you going to be walking combat ready all the time with your ar? you can dream for a situation where you see it running at you far enough away you can bring it up and pop off one or 2 steady shots. more like youll have enough time to feel the shit squirt out your ass and the warmth as you try and draw it up fast enough to get it on target. Read about a Brown bear attack where the 12 year old saved his Dad and Uncle. The 12 year old had his shotgun in the low ready as they walked while the Dad and Uncle had it slung over their shoulders on their backs. The bear burst through the bushes just a couple dozen feet from them where the Dad and Uncle could did not get their guns out before the bear was nearly on top of them. Luckily the 12 year old was able to put it down before it was able to do any damage. If you are walking through any kind of forest, woods or covered terrain in bear country you would be surprised how quiet and close a 1,000 pound bear can be and get to you before you are aware. This is why if you can't see at least 30+ yards in every direction you should have your rifle/shotgun in the low ready or your pistol on your chest or available instantaneously. The 300BLK will work fine for medium brown to semi large black bears. If you are in the neighborhood of Large Brown Bears or Grizzlies I would probably use something bigger. Most Alaska guides carry shotguns with 00 or 000 buckshot or slugs for rifles. If the rifle is too cumbersome the pistol a lot of them carry will vary. Some go big with 44mag, 454 Casull. A lot have gone to the 10mm in Semi Autos to give them more shots and less recoil for a better chance to hit vitals or in rare cases multiple attackers. |
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Posted: 6/1/2021 11:33:57 AM EDT
[#30]
Every day millions of bears are killed with 300 blackout.
Before the invention of 300 blackout, gangs of armored bears would roam the streets with little regard to 5.56 which would bounce harmlessly off their fur. We are once again safe to leave our basements thanks to this cartridge. |
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Posted: 6/1/2021 8:39:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Bears aren't bulletproof and have been killed/driven off with a pretty high success rate with many standard caliber pistols. 5.56 manages to punch through steel plates, a bear skull might deflect some shots if it's a particularly bad angle, but you can shoot 5.56 really fast, and even with a mere 10rd mag I think a decent shot ought to be able to send enough 55gr or heavier messages to convince a bear of the error of their ways.
My only concern with an AR pistol or long gun for bear defense is that long guns are annoying and get in the way and you will probably want to lay it down so you can do actual work now and then. My own preference is that I'd rather have the less ideal gun (44/357 pistol in my case) on me all the time than the better gun most/some of the time. |
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Posted: 6/2/2021 8:08:50 PM EDT
[#32]
To the OP.
It depends what bear you are after. Black Bear is completely different animal, from Brown Bear. I have harvested quite a few of em, those animals are not to be played with. Extremely powerful, and way faster than person would ever expect it to be,...specially after been shot once, but not dropped. Names “Brown” ,and “Black”could be confusing for someone new to the area as well, which can be dangerous, because those two do not react same, specially after they been shot. 300 all the way, I would go with heavy solids, what ever you can find now. I took a large Black Bear male 7 years ago with SMLE and .303 fmj, It took two hits like a champ, and passed away while running towards me,...soon after I soiled my pants, just a little. Lol. 20-30 rds at quick disposal will dispatch any Bear, technically. |
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Posted: 6/3/2021 11:29:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every day millions of bears are killed with 300 blackout. Before the invention of 300 blackout, gangs of armored bears would roam the streets with little regard to 5.56 which would bounce harmlessly off their fur. We are once again safe to leave our basements thanks to this cartridge. ROTFLMAO! |
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Posted: 6/4/2021 10:31:58 AM EDT
[#34]
I've seen rabbits shot with 22lr go like crazy, wouldn't wanna see a bear like that 15 feet from me. Take a look at small frame 308s with a 14.5" p&w or 12" barrel.
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