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Posted: 1/1/2003 8:02:01 PM EDT
I never really look at www.subguns.com, but ended up fiding out that someone will be making some reproductions of the very early CAR-15 stock:
 www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=1404&query=retrieval Thought that some might find it intresting. |
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Posted: 1/1/2003 9:52:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Stottman, thanks for the heads up.
Just an observation... in order to maximize the number of hits on this very interesting & worthwhile thread, you might want to change the title to something like "very early CAR-15 buttstock repos for sale." |
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Posted: 1/1/2003 10:20:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Real cool! but no shorty triangular handguards available though [:(] (Right?)
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Posted: 1/1/2003 11:25:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Skammy, contact Ken Drasen at Hay River Trading about shorty triangular handguards.
E-mail: [email protected] (715)357-6054 |
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Posted: 1/2/2003 7:34:55 AM EDT
[#4]
When you say [i]early[/i] you mean [i]early[/i]! This design predates the XM177 and XM177E1.
-- Chuck |
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Posted: 1/2/2003 10:37:09 AM EDT
[#5]
Now that is an odd little beast. The only place I've seen that model is in museums and books; but the lower appears to be an A2 lower (reinforced around the buffer tube and a mag fence) instead of the original lower.
Either somebody went through a whole lot of trouble to create an authentic reproduction of the original or someone took an incredibly rare rifle and then parted out the upper. |
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Posted: 1/2/2003 11:13:40 AM EDT
[#6]
If you look on the ad, the guy mentions that he also offers reproduction short handguards and moderators.
Everything on their is a reproduction I am sure. The real ones are super rare. Also, I just looked in the book "the black rifle" by R.Blake Stevens. The one pic of the real thing on page 229 shows a slabside lower with a foward assist upper (A1 of course). Somewhere else in the book, their is a pic of one without the moderator, just a 3 prong flash hider. Seems like a perfect SBR project for a spare SP1 rifle. |
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Posted: 1/2/2003 12:35:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: When you say [i]early[/i] you mean [i]early[/i]! This design predates the XM177 and XM177E1. -- Chuck Yep, the Colt Model 07 carbine. In addition to The Black Rifle, good pictures of the carbine can be found in Kevin Dockery´s: Special Warfare, Special Weapons book concerning SEAL small arms. |
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Posted: 1/2/2003 5:49:30 PM EDT
[#8]
The lower in the photo is not authentic for the upper, but does show the design nicely. SP1 or XM16 lower would be the correct one. Don't forget the roll pin hole to secure the buffer and the dimpled takedown pins........
etc -- Chuck |
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Posted: 1/3/2003 3:35:31 PM EDT
[#9]
ive always been curious about these and stocks and am wondering if that stock could be mounted on a preban without too much trouble. i realize there probably are barrel issues to make it legal but am curious nevertheless
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Posted: 1/3/2003 3:41:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Ya, Ive been wondering... Is there anyway to make a 16inch barrel look nice with those handguards?
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Posted: 1/4/2003 3:22:05 AM EDT
[#11]
I pics that I looked at in the book, dont have dimpled takedown pins.
I put my name is the list that is being compiled for it. I plan on using a 11.5"/4.5" combo. Not perfect, but no SBR needed. If I ever SBR it, then I can have it cut down to 10". That should not look too weird. |
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Posted: 1/4/2003 7:17:30 AM EDT
[#12]
The carbine in the photo has a 10" bbl, just like the XM177/XM177E1.
The reason this stock is so rare is, like the original waffle magazine, [i]it didn't work well![/i] No reason to think it'll work any better reincarnated after 35 years. But it does [i]look neat[/i]. [;)] -- Chuck |
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Posted: 1/4/2003 5:27:06 PM EDT
[#13]
i think the toggle switch in the back made it inconvenient but if they had put it on the bottom or the side it would work better now can this be mounted on a regular preban?
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Posted: 1/5/2003 12:22:44 AM EDT
[#14]
It should work fine on a preban. I am planning on using it on a Colt SP1 rifle.
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Posted: 1/5/2003 8:47:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Ya, Ive been wondering... Is there anyway to make a 16inch barrel look nice with those handguards? I kinda like this "retro dissipator"-look. [url]http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/albums/album_image/42605/32447.htm[/url] |
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Posted: 1/7/2003 5:55:15 AM EDT
[#16]
This is the early XM607 collapsible buttstock project.
Reproductions are being made from access to an original and price range will be around $300.00 (still more than khalf the cost of a Crane SOPMOD). Link posted above is correct and you can search XM607 for more info... |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 6:11:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Also, I just looked in the book "the black rifle" by R.Blake Stevens...The one pic of the real thing on page 229 shows a slabside lower with a foward assist upper... Stottman - Can you post/link a scan of that pic??? |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 6:14:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: This is the early XM607 collapsible buttstock project... WA Tom has added me to the list, also...I like it!!! [:D] One question on the barrel/moderator...Exactly what does that moderator do??? Doesn't look like it has any slots, gas diffusers, etc...Is it just hollowed out??? I read on the Special Operations.com site "A Short History Of The M4 Carbine" [url]http://www.specialoperations.com/Weapons/Features/M4/Default.html[/url] that the "moderator" was not especially effective at reducing the fireball or the noise with the short (10"/11.5") barrel, especially in enclosed areas...(I researched other sites also)... Is there a print or sketch for the "moderator" available anywhere??? It looks completely different from the 5" Carbine FH... |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 10:58:04 AM EDT
[#19]
The original moderators were not hollow, but had baffles similar to a suppressor. They were meant to bring down the noise and flash of a 10" barrel to the same level as a 20".
The 5.5" flash hiders you see today are based off the look of these. Here are some pics. Probably violated a few copyright laws. XM-177E2 on bottom [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/robstott/xm1771.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/robstott/xm1772.jpg[/img] First tool room proto types [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/robstott/xm1773.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 11:41:31 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: The original moderators were not hollow, but had baffles similar to a suppressor...Probably violated a few copyright laws... Thank You, Stottman!!! I didn't realize that "moderator" meant "silencer" (at least in NFA-speak)...WA Tom emailed me some "moderator" info also... (I wonder if the ATF considers *all* flash hiders, muzzle brakes, compensators, etc as "silencers"???...That would explain a lot...) I an especially grateful for the pic of the USAF shorty...I saw one in Panama years ago, but not even a pic since...Fascinating historical footnote... |
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