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Posted: 11/24/2018 9:49:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ARogueNinja]
This thread will be dedicated to builds and discussions of the FBI clones and thanks to Geissele for listening to the masses and releasing the much coveted rail. Parts lists will be updated as we go. Please keep it on topic and post pictures of your builds and "in the wild" photos.
     Barrel: Colt 11.5" barrels & others since there was already a mix of stuff out there between the different offices, prior to the upgrade starting. Lower: Colt/ some older DOJ contract RRA lowers, among others. Grip: ERGO/ Hogue/ A2 Upper: Most of the uppers appear to be Colt marked. Rail: Troy and Geissele, seems like the main colors for the MK4 rail are Black and OD, unsure of the others. Flash hider: A2 flashhiders/ Surefire/ KAC NT4 Optics: Aimpoint H1/T1s & H2/T2s are approved, along with the Daniel Defense mounts. The Sig Romeo4 red dot was also approved and is being used by some other federal agencies too. Spuhr mounts for Aimpoints for HRT guns. EOTech EXPS 3 & G33 Magnifier Sights: Troy BUIS/ Magpul MBUS Laser: L3 AN/ PEQ 15 Stock: CTRs Sling: VTAC 2 points/ Magpul MS Light: WMLs/ Surefire Scout More info here: Industry Thread Originally Posted By mbpike: Originally Posted By GS5414: Alright homies. I'm going to drop some knowledge, and then ghost. Folks generally got a handle on the right parts. Right now, the FBI has stopped throwing out their T2s/Spuhr mounts because folks are starting to regret replacing them with the ROMEO RDS. Things aren't holding up to abuse and long life. Who knew. You'll see the Aimpoint make a comeback. Also, nobody in this thread has the right gas block. Geissele gas blocks are used on the FBI guns, but they are port restricted gas blocks, as in the ports aren't drilled all the way out. We used them in the USMC for some of the souped up M4s, at both 0.072" restricted for 14.5" guns (a bit too small), and 0.068" restricted for 10.3" guns. The FBI uses 0.067" restricted blocks. I think I have one of them stashed away that I never managed to use - might take a photo of it if I can find it. They do a good job keeping gas port erosion from affecting function of the guns as the barrels burn out. Keeps carrier speeds lower, recoil is a bit softer. They are not sold commercially, or even talked about for that matter. If you want the same function, take a G block and thread it for a BRT Micro Tune 0.067" port insert. I'm out. S/F Lets get this added to the OP. Originally Posted By elucidate: Not a clone. Large regional SWAT. Skinny commando barrel. Originally Posted By elucidate: Indeed. When I said 'not a clone' by that I meant it's a picture of a real upper, sat on a desk in a large regional FBI training facility, not something I made at home. Originally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: Originally Posted By AZgunner: I haven't decided if I'm doing the clone correct green rail, or if I'll do the same setup but in all black. It depends on where I'm at in a few months. If I need to give my current rifle back and use the FBI clone on duty, I need to do it in black, as only all black color schemes are currently authorized. A black rifle can be completely clone correct, it would just represent a regular agent's rifle, not HRT or Regional SWAT. This thread started as a result of the interest in the green Geissele Mk4 handguards that showed up on Regional SWAT rifles, but all four Geissele colors are in use by the FBI. People are just (understandably) a bit fixated on the green ones because they look great. That's led to what a lot of people are doing, which is combining the features of the HRT and SWAT rifles into a mixed clone (SWAT green handguard and CTR stock, HRT heavy barrel, and Spuhr HRT Aimpoint mount). I think it would be great if @ARogueNinja could update the original post to reflect the four FBI variants that are out there (these details are incomplete and could be a little off): HRT: DDC Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt HRT heavy barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Spuhr mount (not sure about the stock), black or FDE(?) CTR or Colt stock Regional SWAT: OD Green Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Daniel Defense mount, OD green CTR or Colt stock Vehicle Teams: Grey Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Sig Romeo, FAB Defense PTK AFG, Maxim Defense collapsible stock https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1182/green___grey_M4_carbines_jpg-1584398.JPG Field Agent: Black Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Daniel Defense mount or Sig Romeo, black CTR or Colt stock I think this is a grey Mk4 issued to hrt4me but is (I believe) representative of the standard agent rifle configuration. I don't recall seeing any photos in this thread of a regular agent's carbine: https://i.imgur.com/A6UVttH.jpg |
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Posted: 12/5/2020 11:03:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKocher: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/83/BD5A35C1-F4AF-4C3A-835F-0842B6B23163_jpe-1716974.JPG seems legit |
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Posted: 12/5/2020 11:27:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKocher: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/83/BD5A35C1-F4AF-4C3A-835F-0842B6B23163_jpe-1716974.JPG Yes please! |
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Posted: 12/5/2020 11:39:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKocher: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/83/BD5A35C1-F4AF-4C3A-835F-0842B6B23163_jpe-1716974.JPG Nice find. Great pic! Needs to be on Page 1. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 8:45:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Shit they all have black charging handles.
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Posted: 12/6/2020 12:23:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SnowshoeBBQ: Shit they all have black charging handles. I'm not aware of a picture with them with anything other than a black charging handle? |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 1:05:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mdavis: I'm not aware of a picture with them with anything other than a black charging handle? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mdavis: Originally Posted By SnowshoeBBQ: Shit they all have black charging handles. I'm not aware of a picture with them with anything other than a black charging handle? My suspicion is that they’re all black, Geissele just happens to offer them in green and DDC in case someone wants them. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 1:18:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sputnik556: My suspicion is that they’re all black, Geissele just happens to offer them in green and DDC in case someone wants them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sputnik556: Originally Posted By mdavis: Originally Posted By SnowshoeBBQ: Shit they all have black charging handles. I'm not aware of a picture with them with anything other than a black charging handle? My suspicion is that they’re all black, Geissele just happens to offer them in green and DDC in case someone wants them. Agreed. The only "clone" instance that I can think of where the charging handle matches the rail is the URG-I uppers that use a Geissele DDC rail and charging handle. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 2:51:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Glad I got black
 
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Posted: 12/6/2020 2:56:09 PM EDT
[#9]
What lights are those in the pic?
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Posted: 12/6/2020 2:56:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mdavis: Agreed. The only "clone" instance that I can think of where the charging handle matches the rail is the URG-I uppers that use a Geissele DDC rail and charging handle. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mdavis: Originally Posted By Sputnik556: Originally Posted By mdavis: Originally Posted By SnowshoeBBQ: Shit they all have black charging handles. I'm not aware of a picture with them with anything other than a black charging handle? My suspicion is that they’re all black, Geissele just happens to offer them in green and DDC in case someone wants them. Agreed. The only "clone" instance that I can think of where the charging handle matches the rail is the URG-I uppers that use a Geissele DDC rail and charging handle. Same. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 2:59:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sputnik556: What lights are those in the pic? Looks like SF Scout lights. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 3:18:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mdavis: Agreed. The only "clone" instance that I can think of where the charging handle matches the rail is the URG-I uppers that use a Geissele DDC rail and charging handle. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mdavis: Originally Posted By Sputnik556: Originally Posted By mdavis: Originally Posted By SnowshoeBBQ: Shit they all have black charging handles. I'm not aware of a picture with them with anything other than a black charging handle? My suspicion is that they’re all black, Geissele just happens to offer them in green and DDC in case someone wants them. Agreed. The only "clone" instance that I can think of where the charging handle matches the rail is the URG-I uppers that use a Geissele DDC rail and charging handle. That’s my take on it too. If you look at Geissele’s Government Charging Handle product listing, it says "This is the same charging handle used to fulfill contracts for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)." The OD Green Government Charging Handle product page says “The Government Charging Handle was developed to meet the requirements of Special Agents from the Federal Bureau of Invesigations (the FBI). Currently in use on the field, it features handles that are slightly smaller and more rounded than our Airborne Charging Handle, further reducing the chances of snagging on gear during high-energy and high-tension operations.” I think they were being a little less specific in that description because the Government CH design was produced for the FBI contract, but not the green version specifically. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 4:49:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Mine's just fed inspired. Not going for 100% accuracy.
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KY, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2020 6:41:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: There’s a small YT symbol between the picture icon and the Twitter bird at the top of the edit window. Here you go:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VyTpU378R0Not on topic here, but having just watched this video, I feel compelled to comment. I'm an old guy now, but years ago, my first job out of law school was to have the privilege of serving as an FBI Special Agent. This was in the middle 70's, before HRT ever existed, and indeed, before many FBI offices even had official SWAT teams. I am proud of my service to my country, and will always feel good about the FBI that I was a part of. But watching this video, I was stunned to see that it included scenes from Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the murder of Lavoy Finicum. I cannot believe that these were moments FBI HRT was proud of. Although I hope the original motives for FBI HRT involvement were legitimate, the outcomes of these events, IMHO, were evidence of a subset of FBI Special Agents out of control. I only hope they have finally learned from these mistakes. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/6/2020 7:09:40 PM EDT
[#15]
i need one of these builds so badly
but the mk4 federal odg rail is like unobtainium right now |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 7:36:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Mine (like a lot of those here) is definitely fed-inspired. Rail & optic might be the only things really correct...
 Attached File |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 7:51:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HKocher]
[#17]
….l
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KY, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2020 8:36:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKocher: That video wasn’t put out by the FBI, just pieced together by some guy on the internet. Watching it through the post on this forum, I could not tell that. I feel somewhat better if that is the case. I love my country and I love the FBI, but I cringe everytime I hear the words Ruby Ridge and Waco, and even Lavoy Finicum. Glad to hear this is not an "official" video, although I do wonder just where some of that footage came from. |
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Posted: 12/8/2020 12:23:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Plumber576]
[#19]
I know, not an actual clone, but I was an the original buyer in the first round of OD Fed rails and finally finished this up last night. Can't wait to shoot it! As long as everything goes well on its first range trip I plan on submitting a Form 1 to SBR this pistol.
It's an 11.5" Sionics barrel /Forward Conrols Desgin 6315KM and Bootleg Adjustable BCG. 
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MD, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2020 12:39:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plumber576: I know, not an actual clone, but I was an the original buyer in the first round of OD Fed rails and finally finished this up last night. Can't wait to shoot it! As long as everything goes well on its first range trip I plan on submitting a Form 1 to SBR this pistol. It's an 11.5" Sionics barrel /Forward Conrols Desgin 6315KM and Bootleg Adjustable BCG. https://i.imgur.com/qQGuIO2l.jpg?1 Excellent choice of barrel. I’m running the 11.5” RGP in mine. |
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Posted: 12/8/2020 1:36:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By YeOldeCircles: Excellent choice of barrel. I’m running the 11.5” RGP in mine. Thanks. In the last month I honestly considered selling the Sionics barrel for a 12.5" hammer-forged BRT but I thought I'd use the Sionics for this build and get the BRT for a new build with a handguard that would fit better. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/11/2020 2:21:57 PM EDT
[#22]
What's the going rate on the non-ODG Gen 1 rails? I can find plenty of completed sales on the ODGs but few to no recent sales of the black, grey, or DDC rails.
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Posted: 12/11/2020 2:48:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DiscipulusArmorum: What's the going rate on the non-ODG Gen 1 rails? I can find plenty of completed sales on the ODGs but few to no recent sales of the black, grey, or DDC rails. I've seen them on Gunbroker going for $500 + lately regardless of color. I paid $385 for a new grey Gen 1 here in the EE about a month ago. Bought a used OD Gen 2 locally for $300. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/18/2020 5:35:10 PM EDT
[#24]
im new to FBI HRT cloning or near cloning, so please be gentle
still waiting on a dbal-a3 and geissele ach to come in the mail 
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/18/2020 8:03:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevblah: im new to FBI HRT cloning or near cloning, so please be gentle still waiting on a dbal-a3 and geissele ach to come in the mail https://i.imgur.com/IHU9ZbE.jpg that looks spot on good work |
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Posted: 12/18/2020 8:12:15 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 12/18/2020 8:21:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevblah: im new to FBI HRT cloning or near cloning, so please be gentle still waiting on a dbal-a3 and geissele ach to come in the mail https://i.imgur.com/IHU9ZbE.jpg What’s not to like good looking setup |
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USA
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Posted: 12/20/2020 9:46:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Anyone else hate the AFG2? Just doesn't feel right in my hand, especially when trying to manipulate the WML.
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:13:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HKocher]
[#29]
Tag
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:53:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevblah: Anyone else hate the AFG2? Just doesn't feel right in my hand, especially when trying to manipulate the WML. I’m not a fan of the AFG either. I’m using a Magpul MLOK VFG instead. |
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Posted: 12/21/2020 12:16:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sputnik556]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevblah: Anyone else hate the AFG2? Just doesn't feel right in my hand, especially when trying to manipulate the WML. I’ve tried to like them twice, on both occasions they ended up in the EE. I hate the things, they’re only slightly more tolerable if you mount them backwards. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/21/2020 12:26:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HD2006: I’m not a fan of the AFG either. I’m using a Magpul MLOK VFG instead. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HD2006: I’m not a fan of the AFG either. I’m using a Magpul MLOK VFG instead. im waiting for my DBAL to show up before I decide if i want to run slick underside or with a VFG Originally Posted By Sputnik556: I’ve tried to like them twice, on both occasions they ended up in the EE. I hate the things, they’re only slightly more tolerable if you mount them backwards. me too, actually. exactly twice ive bought an AFG and twice now i've sold it. i really tried this time too lol |
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Posted: 12/21/2020 12:35:02 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: Looks like a lot of the older footage in that video compilation came from Joan Lunden's old show, Behind Closed Doors: FBI HRT, which originally aired April 13, 2001. An interesting overview of the team, even if dated and a little dramatized. It shows MP5s as their primary weapons, which I'm guessing were 10mm based on the straight stick magazines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e17PyNToqEQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: Originally Posted By Bhavin22: Originally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: There’s a small YT symbol between the picture icon and the Twitter bird at the top of the edit window. Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VyTpU378R0Thanks Looks like a lot of the older footage in that video compilation came from Joan Lunden's old show, Behind Closed Doors: FBI HRT, which originally aired April 13, 2001. An interesting overview of the team, even if dated and a little dramatized. It shows MP5s as their primary weapons, which I'm guessing were 10mm based on the straight stick magazines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e17PyNToqE40 cal. |
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Posted: 12/21/2020 12:37:56 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevblah: Anyone else hate the AFG2? Just doesn't feel right in my hand, especially when trying to manipulate the WML. I don't hate it but, I was issued one and gave it to another troop. I bought one later and used it on 1 range trip. Not my thing either. I use shorty BCM VFG or small hand stops. |
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Posted: 12/21/2020 12:38:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By karmapolice: So clone-ish build, I have two this is the same one. This is my work rifle https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50671033341_297817fac8_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50670292378_fb6c773254_b.jpg Your Agency doesnt require buis on duty rifles? |
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Posted: 12/21/2020 11:45:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HKocher]
[#36]
…..
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Posted: 12/22/2020 3:55:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Just ordered a stripped Colt 6933 barrel for $252.00 shipped and got a Geissele Super Gas Block off the EE here. Already have my Colt 6920 lower (Form 1 incoming). Very excited for this build, just have to keep my eyes peeled for the MK4 Federal Rail.
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Posted: 12/23/2020 2:10:07 AM EDT
[#38]
I hate to keep posting in this thread without having a complete build to show off, but this is my all time favorite clone build and something I'm piecing together. So...question:
It appears the only "in the wild" clone correct grips are A2 or Hogue. Not bad options but, without combing through 60+ pages, have we seen individual used Magpul or other variants? Also: Magpul AFG2 seems to be pretty standard. Have we actually seen any other AFG or VFG on issued rifles? Either HRT, Regional, or Individual Officer? Magpul VFG, BCM stubby, KAC broomstick? Just curious. And, while I'm crapping on this thread without pics: what buffer is everyone running unsuppressed? My agency doesn't currently allow suppressors, so I'll be running a Colt 6933 11.5 barrel, Geissele Super Gas Block, and was thinking of starting with an H2 buffer and Sprinco Blue Spring. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2020 2:13:14 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZgunner: I hate to keep posting in this thread without having a complete build to show off, but this is my all time favorite clone build and something I'm piecing together. So...question: It appears the only "in the wild" clone correct grips are A2 or Hogue. Not bad options but, without combing through 60+ pages, have we seen individual used Magpul or other variants? Also: Magpul AFG2 seems to be pretty standard. Have we actually seen any other AFG or VFG on issued rifles? Either HRT, Regional, or Individual Officer? Magpul VFG, BCM stubby, KAC broomstick? Just curious. And, while I'm crapping on this thread without pics: what buffer is everyone running unsuppressed? My agency doesn't currently allow suppressors, so I'll be running a Colt 6933 11.5 barrel, Geissele Super Gas Block, and was thinking of starting with an H2 buffer and Sprinco Blue Spring. H2 my brudda. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2020 4:41:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZgunner: I hate to keep posting in this thread without having a complete build to show off, but this is my all time favorite clone build and something I'm piecing together. So...question: It appears the only "in the wild" clone correct grips are A2 or Hogue. Not bad options but, without combing through 60+ pages, have we seen individual used Magpul or other variants? Also: Magpul AFG2 seems to be pretty standard. Have we actually seen any other AFG or VFG on issued rifles? Either HRT, Regional, or Individual Officer? Magpul VFG, BCM stubby, KAC broomstick? Just curious. And, while I'm crapping on this thread without pics: what buffer is everyone running unsuppressed? My agency doesn't currently allow suppressors, so I'll be running a Colt 6933 11.5 barrel, Geissele Super Gas Block, and was thinking of starting with an H2 buffer and Sprinco Blue Spring. I was running Spikes T2 and Sprinco Blue with the .070" gas port Colt heavy barrel 11.5. It ran pretty smooth but I always thought I could've ran slightly heavier buffer/spring, even more so if you have a larger GP 6933 barrel. I think those are .076"? |
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USA
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Posted: 12/23/2020 4:48:31 PM EDT
[#41]
im running an h2 with milspec spring, fine so far
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Posted: 12/23/2020 7:34:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Anyone here running the colt 6933 barrel with a can? Did you have to mess with the gas port any?
Thanks |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2020 10:04:24 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bhavin22: Anyone here running the colt 6933 barrel with a can? Did you have to mess with the gas port any? Thanks I ran a true 6933 thin profile .625" gas block journal with .070 gas port with a can. No issues...a bit gassy. Comparable to a MK18. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 10:25:18 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnnyUtah427: I ran a true 6933 thin profile .625" gas block journal with .070 gas port with a can. No issues...a bit gassy. Comparable to a MK18. @JonnyUtah427 was that an older factory Colt 6933 barrel .625 with a .070 gas port? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2020 10:31:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: @JonnyUtah427 was that an older factory Colt 6933 barrel .625 with a .070 gas port? I should have been more clear in my post. Let me rephrase. It was a true thin profile Colt that started out as a 16" barrel, and was cut to 11.5 and gas port drilled out all by JT. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 1:33:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bhavin22]
[#46]
Mine is a current product 6933. Any idea what the gas port size is on current ones?
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Posted: 12/24/2020 1:48:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bhavin22: Mine is a current product 6933. Any idea what the gas port size is supposed to be? Current 6933 barrels are .074  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 1:53:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: Current 6933 barrels are .074 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/236598/0E289E1E-764C-483D-BFBF-96703D931441_jpe-1746070.JPG Thanks. I guess I will get a brt gas tube and see how that goes. What size should I get? I will mostly be shot with a surefire RC. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 2:55:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FONTY]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bhavin22: Thanks. I guess I will get a brt gas tube and see how that goes. What size should I get? I will mostly be shot with a surefire RC. I use a BRT#7(.069) gas tube which is equivalent to a .067 gas port with no suppressor. I wouldn’t go smaller if your gonna run it un-suppressed at all. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 3:04:46 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: I use a BRT#7(.069) gas tube which is equivalent to a .067 gas port with no suppressor. I wouldn’t go smaller if your gonna run it un-suppressed at all. I ended up just ordering the EZTUNE mix car. That’s what they recommend for 50/50 use. Thanks |
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