Help w/ M16 carrier alternative

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Help w/ M16 carrier alternative

Posted: 6/4/2008 3:03:10 AM EDT

I want a high mass carrier for mechanical/reliability reasons.

I tried reading the 22 page thread about the legality of putting a M16 carrier in an AR15, but I couldn't get through it.

No discussion about the legality of that here.

What kind of alternatives are there to an M16 carrier if you want to have a high mass carrier? How do they compare in terms of mass to the M16 carrier?

Posted: 6/4/2008 3:10:55 AM EDT

[#1]

For carbines smart folks simply use a 9mm buffer (for which there are no "legal" issues at all) which negates the need for the heavier carrier, but provides ALL the same benefits to the shooter.

Reduced felt recoil, slower cycling for faster follow-up shot and improved reliability all for the miniscule cost of $25 (from RRA, unless price has gone up).

mike

ps - I don't need no stinkin M16 parts in my ARs to make them perform.....

Posted: 6/4/2008 3:35:22 AM EDT

[#2]

Tubb CWS.

Posted: 6/4/2008 9:38:43 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
I want a high mass carrier for mechanical/reliability reasons.

I tried reading the 22 page thread about the legality of putting a M16 carrier in an AR15, but I couldn't get through it.

No discussion about the legality of that here.

What kind of alternatives are there to an M16 carrier if you want to have a high mass carrier? How do they compare in terms of mass to the M16 carrier?

The M-16 Bolt Carrier weighs roughly 4/10 ounce more (9.0 oz. vs. 9.4 oz.) than an 'enhanced' AR-15 Bolt Carrier.

It you are looking for more recoiling mass, look at installing a heavier buffer. It is the quickest and easiest way.

Std Carbine Buffer - 3.0 oz.
'H' Carbine Buffer - 3.8 oz.
'H2' Carbine Buffer - 4.6oz.
'H3' Carbine Buffer - 5.4oz.
9MM Steel Carbine Buffer - 5.5oz.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:19:41 AM EDT

[#4]

I made a little weight on a lathe that slips into the back of the carier and adds quite a bit of weight. Is made of a steel bolt we turned down to what we wanted it to be.

Posted: 6/4/2008 2:45:52 PM EDT

[#5]

adding buffer weight is not equivalent to adding mass to the carrier itself. Either slows down the action cycle which has various benefits, but only adding carrier weight can trade velocity for mass when it comes to doing the work of extraction since the buffer is not pulling on the carrier.

I am wanting to store more energy at lower velocity in the carrier to produce a slower but robust extraction in a short barrel setup.

I heard about some sort of tungsten weights. Anyone know about them. Do they stay in place?

Posted: 6/4/2008 3:09:46 PM EDT

[#6]

try looking at cmmg's website and finding the extra weight that fits inside the carrier.

sorry i'm too lazy to look it up and link to it.

Posted: 6/4/2008 5:53:38 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
adding buffer weight is not equivalent to adding mass to the carrier itself. Either slows down the action cycle which has various benefits, but only adding carrier weight can trade velocity for mass when it comes to doing the work of extraction since the buffer is not pulling on the carrier.

I am wanting to store more energy at lower velocity in the carrier to produce a slower but robust extraction in a short barrel setup.

I heard about some sort of tungsten weights. Anyone know about them. Do they stay in place?

The Young NM AR-15 Bolt Carrier weighs the same as a std. M-16 Bolt Carrier.

A F/A Young NM Bolt Carrier weighs more.

The Tubb CWS works as advertised.

Posted: 6/4/2008 6:00:33 PM EDT

[#8]

I repeat: Tubb CWS.

Posted: 6/5/2008 1:17:39 AM EDT

[#9]

Thanks Guys.

Holy shit! That thing weigs 4 oz w/ the heavy insert.

It isn't attached to the carrier though. It is just retained by the buffer in the back of the carrier so it doesn't actually pull the bolt back when it gets going, it just slows the carrier/buffer train, same as a heavier buffer.

Plus it is retarded how it it precludes normal closing of the receiver.

Probably would be easy enough to trip the back of it & attach it w/ set screws or if necessary JB weld.

Don't like the cost of it.

Might should just use a peice of grade 8 bolt like that one dude. Wonder if I could turn a threading die inside the carrier by hand???

Does a heavier carrier require a heavier buffer weight to deal w/ extra bolt bounce?

Posted: 6/5/2008 9:11:54 AM EDT

[#10]

Due respect, but I'll be damned if I'd have a stray piece of metal rattling around in my BCG, held in with set screws or JB weld.
Bushy BCs have a shorter half-circle of metal at the rear of the carrier; too short to trip an autosear. They do have more mass than the Colt 'sporter' carriers, which have half the bottom milled away.
As long as the firing pin is shrouded, you should be good to go.
Is there a particular problem the OP is trying to solve? Failures to extract? While the extra weight buffer would add no extra mass to help haul out the empty, it would slow the BCG and allow pressures to drop before beginning extraction.

BTW, re: 9mm & other short carriers....is there an issue running them in rifle length buffer tubes?
Moon

Posted: 6/5/2008 9:39:08 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
BTW, re: 9mm & other short carriers....is there an issue running them in rifle length buffer tubes?
Moon

Yes, without an insert in the rifle length buffer tube, using a carbine buffer will allow the bolt carrier to come back too far and do damage to your AR.

Since the std. Rifle Buffer weighs ~5.5 oz, I do not see the need.

Slash sells his custom buffers on the EE and you can always swap out the steel weighs in the buffer and replace them with lead or tungsten to up the weight.

Slash's ad: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=25&t=263131

Posted: 6/6/2008 2:30:14 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
BTW, re: 9mm & other short carriers....is there an issue running them in rifle length buffer tubes?
Moon

Yes, the problem is that the carrier key will strike against the lower receiver where the receiver extension threads in. I have heard of guys not knowing any better & doing this for a while w/o really breaking anything, but it is asking for a broken lower or carrier key.

Posted: 6/6/2008 2:37:18 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Due respect, but I'll be damned if I'd have a stray piece of metal rattling around in my BCG, held in with set screws or JB weld.
Bushy BCs have a shorter half-circle of metal at the rear of the carrier; too short to trip an autosear. They do have more mass than the Colt 'sporter' carriers, which have half the bottom milled away.
As long as the firing pin is shrouded, you should be good to go.
Is there a particular problem the OP is trying to solve? Failures to extract? While the extra weight buffer would add no extra mass to help haul out the empty, it would slow the BCG and allow pressures to drop before beginning extraction.

I am wanting to do a pistol build & I suppose I may be trying to over engineer it. I just want to replace the sharp violent action cycle of SBRs w/ a slower more mass drven extraction like on an AK w/ its massive carrier.

If you add enough weight to the buffer, you may slow down the carrier enough that it doesn't have the stored energy to extract the empty from the chamber.

Probably what I'll do is just start w/ AR15 carrier & rifle buffer in rifle tube & I'll polish the chamber & so how goes it. If I need to, I'll tinker w/ the gas system & adding weight to carrier somehow.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Help w/ M16 carrier alternative

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