User Panel
Posted: 3/29/2006 12:21:18 PM EDT
Specifically, if you buy a Bushmaster AR15 pistol, can you put a stock or buttpad or anything on the end of the tube. If not, what regulation says so.
Thanks |
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No can do, unless you have a permit for a short barrel rifle.
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+1 |
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Current federal law, and state laws all say its a no go. You can take your pic of which one covers it, but there are certainly more than one which do.
There are legal ways to achieve your goal. |
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How about the Federal Firearms Act of 1934 for starters. |
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+2. That would make it an SBR. Unless the barrel on your pistol is already 16"(). Then once you put the stock on it you could never go back to a pistol. |
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Just to clarify, there is no such thing as a permit for an SBR, unless there's a state I'm not familiar with that requires one. What you do need is a BATF approved form 1 (if you're an individual who makes an SBR), form 2 (if you're an 07/02 FFL/SOT who makes/manufactures an SBR), form 3 (if you're an FFL/SOT who has transferred the SBR from the manufacturer or another dealer to yourself), or form 4 (if you're an individual who has transferred the SBR from a dealer or other individual to yourself). |
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It is my understanding that if you put a 16" barrel on it then you can put a stock on it. You can then take the stock off and put on the shorter barrel back on. You can go back and forth as much as you want. Just never have the stock on when the shorter barrel is on. This sort of thing is evidently done all the time with Thompson Center firearms. At least they are the people that had the pull to get it into law.
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Yup (unless you're an SOT 2 ?) . It's an application to make and register a firearm. www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53201.pdf |
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Any idea how long this process takes? I'm interested in making an SBR, but do they have the same stupid rules as other NFA items such as having to notify if you take it 60 miles or more away from you home etc???
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that is IF you start with a pistol. if you start with a rifle you break the law. (all TC arms are sold as pistols) |
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THIS AR-15 PISTOL IS SOLD AS A PISTOL NOT AN AR-15 SO WHY IS IT ILLEGAL TO PUT A BUTT STOCK ON A PISTOL? I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH ATF AND THEY COULD NOT GIVE ME A YES OR NO IF THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL. YES THE BARREL IS LESS THAN 16 IN. AND OVERALL LESS THAN 32, BUT THESE ARE SOLD AS A PISTOL. DON'T THEY MAKE STOCKS FOR HANDGUNS SUCH AS GLOCKS. SOMEONE GIVE ME A GOOD ANSWER AS TO WHY PUTTING A STOCK ON A ROCK RIVER ARMS/BUSHMASTER AR-15 PISTOL WOULD BE ILLEGAL.
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You must have a form 1 (or form 4, etc.) for every SBR weapon (i.e. lower, in the case of AR's). You can have 1 SBR lower and multiple short uppers to swap back and forth on it.
Some will argue that if you have one SBR lower, multiple sub-16" uppers, and other complete ARs laying around, you are in violation of the "constructive intent" laws. I'm not going to get into that argument. |
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check out the m16 forum or classII forum for more info on it.
usually anywhere from one month to nine as long as your state allows it. |
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cause the oal length of the bbl needs to be 16" the stocks for pistols are usually kits which included the longer bbl. and if not they are for classIII a pistol is a pistol and not a rifle but dont take my word for it and do as you please. |
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Yes, they make stocks for Glocks. Putting them on a Glock is illegal unless it is registered as an SBR. Pistols are not designed to be fired from the shoulder. Rifles are. When you put a buttstock on a pistol, it becomes a short-barelled rifle. Read up here for info on AR pistols, and here for tons of good info on SBRs. |
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There are timelines in the NFA/M16 section here. The SBR FAQ ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=178305 And yes, interstate transportation etc applies to all NFA firearms to my knowledge. Local laws probably also apply. |
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SBRs are treated the same as any other NFA item. You have to notify ATF if you take it out of state. It is $200 for the tax to make/register it. Read the link in my previous post for the SBR FAQ in the CIII forum. |
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WELL THE BARREL ON THESE AR-15 PISTOLS ARE EITHER 7 OR 10.5 FROM ROCK RIVER ARMS, SOLD AS A PISTOL. YOU DON'T NEED TO APPLY TO ATF TO GET ON OF THESE. ANYONE CAN GET ONE. SO AGAIN, WHAT SAYS WE CAN'T PUT A STOCK ON IT.
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Because there are variables that depend on the situation.
Yes but you'll note they are sold for LEO use only. If YOU want to use one you'll have to register your Glock as a SBR.
Like I said try the National Firearms Act of 1934 |
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Are you deaf? THE LAW says that you cannot put a stock on it, when the barrel length is less than 16" It is perfectly legal to own as a pistol with a short barrel. When you put a stock on it, it instantly becomes classsified as a rifle - and as a rifle MUST have a barrel length of 16" or greater (unless you have a Form 1 and a $200 tax stamp for a Short-barelled rifle). |
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DO YOU HAVE THE REFERENCE FOR THAT? I CAN NOT FIND THE LAW THAT SAYS WHEN YOU PUT A STOCK ON A PISTOL THAT IS BECOMES A RIFLE.
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Did you read the link I posted? It's a clear in there. |
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And dude LOSE THE CAPS!!! It's rude and considered yelling. Not to mention hard to read.
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I think you're going to have to draw him pictures Forest. He doesn't seem too inclined to read, anything.
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The FAQ on the ATF site is pretty clear about it: www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#m25
Here is more info on NFA firearms - from the same page:
By the way - there is a forum specifically for AR pistols, and one for NFA firearms (Full Auto,short barreled rifles and silencers) - people in those forums can also provide more specific info. We're not trying to jerk you around or trick you, we're just telling you what the law is. |
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So if you purchase a short barrel rifle, then you need to notify the ATF if you move out of state? Do you have to notify any local law enforcement too?
Lets say you register a SBR in Washington State, and then you move to Florida, what is the lawful process for notification? Thanks. |
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Absulutely.
Depends on the state's law. Some yes, some no. Just don't move to a state where SBRs are prohibited. |
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thank you for being nice to me. i'll switch over to ar15 pistol forum.
toodles everyone |
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Actually, you need to inform the ATF if you are just temporarily moving the SBR to another state - like for a shoot or something. There are specific forms for this, I believe. |
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I've asked my share of questions that were really obvious to everyone else. Sorry if we jumped all over you. Some of these laws can seem pretty arcane and arbitrary. |
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Do you know what that law is, by any chance? I thought the most recent ATF "opinion" was that you don't make an AOW by putting a forward vertical grip on an AR because the AR pistol wasn't originally designed with a vertical forward grip. The same logic (yeah, I know, I know ) would imply that putting a buttstock on a pistol doesn't turn it into a rifle. |
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My understanding was that putting a forward vertical grip on any pistol, even an AR pistol (why it would be any different is beyond me), was creating an AOW. Most pistols aren't originally designed w/ VFG's, so your statement doesn't make any sense...and if anyone were to read the links posted, we could all stop asking which law(s) prohibit these acts. |
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www.quarterbore.com/library/pdf_files/shortbarreledriflefaq.pdf
www.auto-ordnance.com/images/ss_t1sb.pdf says SBRs are prohibited in AL, HI, IL, NJ, NY, RI, & WA (some local laws may also prohibit SBRs). |
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Well good luck with that idea in federal court. |
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Well good luck with making new friends. I was just asking a question and apparently this isn't the place to ask people. No friendlies here.
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