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Posted: 10/2/2005 2:44:44 PM EDT
[#1]
WOP makes the best dedicated .22 LR upper. THe problem with drop-in conversions is the mighty jump to the rifling and the faster than necessary twist rate.
.22 LR is a heeled bullet tht must upset to fit the bore. This means it is very sensitive to jump and most drop-in conversions cannot wring any useable accuracy. But if you just want to blow off ammo and don't care about accuracy, the Ciener units work pretty well as do the Colts. |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 1:11:43 PM EDT
[#2]
not to hijack, but since the ban is dead (at least in most of the USA) is anyone making high cap mags fir use with AR uppers/conversions. Everywhere I look all I see is 10 rounds this and 10rounds that.
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Posted: 10/2/2005 1:19:55 PM EDT
[#3]
dpms is working on a 25 round and ceiner has 30
Edit Khuel is no longer making uppers |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 1:22:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Used to have a Ciener years ago, sold it before the ban ended and made $$$ - worked OK.
Got a DPMS heavy barrel upper, but got tired of waiting for the hi-caps and sold it. Plus I didn't like that I had end up buying new gear for it (vertical grip, FF handguards, etc.) to make it a carbon copy of my regular .223 upper. So I'm going back to the Ciener, with a few 30 rounders, and that way I just drop it in my existing .223 setup. |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 12:15:20 PM EDT
[#5]
My buddy has a Bushmaster Carbon 15 in 22 that works flawlessly he bought it for his daughter she's only 2 so we get to play with it for a while
 The only downside is the 10 rnd mags
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Posted: 10/2/2005 3:12:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Keith: I have never had the opportunity to shoot one of Frank's .22's, but I did have AccuracySpeaks build me one years ago. It has cleaned the a36 target with a .5mm 10 ring at 50 feet. SRM |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 2:24:24 PM EDT
[#7]
It looks to me from the B-master catalog, that you have to change recoil springs and parts? Do others do the same thing?
M4-AK |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 11:41:51 AM EDT
[#8]
good info...
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Posted: 10/2/2005 11:44:47 AM EDT
[#9]
 My toy… AR15 A2, USGI .22 adaptor and dedicated .22 barrel… fun to shoot!  ANdy |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 11:48:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Khuel uppers are pretty expensive and I've heard he's not making uppers anymore. The reason they were so great was they used Ciener mags, and they would work with M16 RRs and RDIAS/RLLs I believe. So unless you have an M16, it'd be better to get the DPMS upper as they will have 25rd mags on monday. That way you don't have to deal with that ass Ciener for more mags. |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 9:07:16 AM EDT
[#11]
30. I want to design one of those barrel magazines [not sure what they're called] drums if you will for the 22L attachment. That would be boss!  Patty
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Posted: 10/2/2005 9:26:38 AM EDT
[#12]
You'll get more answers in either the Armory/22 forum or the AR15 forum.
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Posted: 10/2/2005 9:40:05 AM EDT
[#13]
I have a dedicated .22LR rifle built with a DPMS M4 .22LR upper. It shoots great; pretty accurate and very reliable, even with cheapy WalMart ammo. DPMS will have 30 round magazines available any day now (like Monday).
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Posted: 10/2/2005 9:55:13 AM EDT
[#14]
It seems that a 22lr kit would be good for cheap shooting. Maybe I should look into one of these. I wonder why most of them have 10 round mags only?
4v50, where can I find information on a Kuehl conversion? pattymcn, what kind of conversion do you have? I understand that not many of them work with a registered M16 (full auto)? |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 6:39:55 AM EDT
[#15]
How many rounds doyour mags hold? |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 8:18:56 AM EDT
[#16]
I've used the Colt brand drop in bolt and
.22lr magazine for at least fifteen years. Have never had a problem of any kind. Thought about getting a dedicated upper with the .22lr appropriate twist rate. Decided against it. Don't see the need since I use the conversion set-up for plinking. |
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Posted: 10/1/2005 9:56:18 PM EDT
[#17]
tag
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Posted: 10/1/2005 9:58:18 PM EDT
[#18]
I have a Khuel and like it very much, thank you. Now, I'd like to get one of those trashy USA Mags and use it as a shroud around the lower portion of the 30 round Ciener.
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Posted: 10/1/2005 10:01:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Do you have a link to a web site that I can check out the upper? |
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Posted: 10/1/2005 10:11:15 PM EDT
[#20]
I have an attachment for my M16 that's a 22LR. Its boss. The only problem is you spend more time loading magazines then you do shooting. Patty
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Posted: 10/2/2005 3:56:04 PM EDT
[#21]
I remember a little while back I saw an advertisement in SGN for a belt fed .22 upper. Whatever became of that?
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Posted: 10/2/2005 4:18:10 PM EDT
[#22]
I think he's about to start shipping the first batch out.
www.lakesideguns.com/ |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 4:44:37 PM EDT
[#23]
That would be a 5 mm X ring. Yes, Derek Martin's .22 uppers are also a good bet but I have not tried them, only heard it. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 1:11:03 AM EDT
[#24]
DPMS released the high-caps as of today. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 2:10:55 AM EDT
[#25]
Is the WOP .22 upper capable of using the new DPMS or ciener hi-cap mags???
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:24:45 PM EDT
[#26]
I tried out a Ciener 22LR conversion kit this past weekend. I put about 600+ rounds through it using a Bushmaster XM15E2S. 22LR rounds were Remington HV HP's and CCI Mini Mags, also HP's. No sweat, no problems. I was surprised it went so well. Cleaned after the first 400 rounds, then after I finished. Didn't want to spend the dollars on a dedicated upper. Not a bad investment. Not match grade accuracy, but it does what I want; and that's what matters to me.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:36:03 PM EDT
[#27]
so what do they cost? |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:39:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Have a link? |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:51:33 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 10/3/2005 9:06:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Another idea: if you want a drop-in conversion kit and can't face dealing with Ciener (he truly is an ass) then DPMS do one. Not so well known as their complete uppers, but reasonably priced. Details can be found here. Photo:
 I have their dedicated upper which works well, so I can't vouch for the performance of this conversion kit. Its AR15 only... if you have an M16 then you are stuck with Ciener. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 9:11:29 PM EDT
[#31]
DPMS has state in one of their threads that they have something in the works for the "rock and roll" guys too.
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Posted: 10/4/2005 2:57:28 AM EDT
[#32]
You said it all, CHEAP and FUN to SHOOT
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Posted: 10/4/2005 8:42:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Bushmaster's upper uses a recoil spring in the buffer tube so you have to swap out the buffer. All of the other brands of kits & uppers have the recoil spring inside the upper so you can leave the .223 buffer in place (or out completely). For drop-in kits that use the .223 barrel I know of: Ciener - in production, 30 or 10 round mags, available in M16 for full-auto DPMS - in production, 10 round only until Dec, then 25 or 10, semi-only M261 (Army) - out of production, 10 round only, uses mag inserts in regular mags, semi-only M261 (Air Force) - out of production, 10 round only, semi-only, bolt hold-open works? Colt - out of production, 10 round only, semi-only Accuracy of the kits is usually poor, especially with 1/9 or faster barrels, but sometimes pretty good with 1/12 barrels. Be sure to clean well after using as they gunk up the receiver pretty fast. For complete uppers I know of: Bushmaster - 10 round only, semi-only, have to swap buffers DPMS - 10 round until Dec then 25/10, semi-only, at least 3 styles available CZ - 10 round but can use slightly modified Ciener mags, semi-only, side charging handle Compass Lake (CLE) - M261 based Accuracy Speaks - Ciener or M261 based Kuehl - out of production, Ciener based KKF - uses chamber adapter, so works with any kit above Fulton Armory - Ciener based? Accuracy of the uppers ranges from as good as a regular semi-auto rifle like the 10/22 to match-grade ragged holes. They have no gas tube so the upper will stay cleaner. |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 9:03:05 AM EDT
[#34]
tag.
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Posted: 10/4/2005 2:40:16 PM EDT
[#35]
The Ciener kit with a 10 round magazine was $139, I believe. I ordered direct from the manufacturer. A personal check took a couple of weeks to clear my bank, then I received the kit in the mail. With an extra 10 round magazine and shipping, the cost was something like $184. For me, well worth the money and suits me fine. I sighted in a Leapers T168 scope at 75 yards and took it squirrel hunting. Three squirrels in the freezer is accuracy enough for me.
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Posted: 10/4/2005 6:35:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Ditto - got the Carbon 15 in .22LR for my daughter's 12yr birthday last month - very NICE weapon. Retail is $749 but I picked it up used with JP trigger and a FTE problem related to the trigger for $300 cash, and spent 5 hours fixing the trigger for nothing. What a deal! |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 7:14:41 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 10/4/2005 11:21:26 PM EDT
[#38]
I won't touch anything Ciener makes with a 10 foot pole. |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 11:29:02 PM EDT
[#39]
That's a shame, because they work damn fine. My wife bought me one, I promptly bought a Kuehl barrel for it, modified the kit, bought some hi-caps and have one FUUUUN little rifle! gloftoe.addlepated.net/22upper |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 11:32:59 PM EDT
[#40]
have you ever tried to talk to CIener? Yeah....that'll change your mind real quick.... |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 11:38:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Talking to him isn't gonna change my mind that this is a 100% running .22 conversion. And it works with the fun-button too.
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Posted: 10/4/2005 11:56:56 PM EDT
[#42]
The man is a asshat of the highest order, and I don't give my money to asshats. |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 2:42:02 AM EDT
[#43]
But how do you really feel?
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Posted: 10/5/2005 1:53:15 PM EDT
[#44]
call him up with a question about his products, I dare you.... |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 2:11:33 PM EDT
[#45]
That's funny. You can always tell if someone has actually dealt with the man. Only a glutton for punishment would subject themselves to that kind of abuse. The guy has some serious personality issues/disorder but he does make a great kit. I say buy the kit (grit your teeth) and have fun. |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 4:06:12 PM EDT
[#46]
Who cares whether Ciener is much of a conversationalist or not? It's a very simple concept for me: I pay him the money required for the product; he sends it to me; I shoot using his product. Its' not like I want to date his daughter or ask him to define the theory of relativity. I've had some great fun with his product, which is all I'm interested in.
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Posted: 10/5/2005 4:57:03 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 10/5/2005 6:37:52 PM EDT
[#48]
My question would be- is his product that much better than a M261 or a DPMS drop in bolt to make it worth it? If not, well, I'd rather deal with DPMS, etc. |
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