Quoted: Randy Weaver  Could you tell us who Randy Weaver is and a summary of what happened?

Go post in the GD area, but don't be surprised if someone jumps you for asking.

Quoted: Randy Weaver  Could you tell us who Randy Weaver is and a summary of what happened?

On October 21, 1989, Randy Weaver was set up by ATF to cut down shotguns below legal length (it took them two years of trying, and taking advantage of him in desperate need for money for his family before he finally agreed), not so they could prosecute him, but so they could force him to become an informant for them by infiltrating a group of Aryan Nations (since they couldn't get in themselves).  Randy had been to one or two meetings several years before, but didn't agree with their violent, militant views, and never returned.

Weaver refused to cooperate with ATF.  He was finally charged and arrested on January 17, 1991, over 2 years after the sale of the guns.  He was released on bail (virtually every penny his family had), and was told by the judge that if he was to fight his case and lose, he would have to reimburse the court for court costs, which would mean losing the only thing keeping his family alive: his land.  Further, he was sent documentation from the court to appear on the wrong date (after the actual court appearance was scheduled), and ended up with a federal warrant out for him.

The US Marshalls service, prompted by false allegations by ATF about Weaver, had Marshalls in camo survailing him on his own property up in the very rural, isolated mountains of Northern Idaho, where his family lived in a simple house.  On August 21, 1992, his 14-year-old son, Sammy, and a family friend, Kevin Harris (25), were out hunting on their property with their dog Striker, and, unknown to them, were approaching the camo'ed survailance team.  It seems clear that one of the team shot and killed Sammy's dog with a suppressed MP5 as they approached.  The boys, startled and afraid by the gunfire that had killed their dog, fired back in the general direction, and then ran away.  One of the Marshalls, William Degan, rose up and shot Sammy in the back in response.  Kevin, seeing this happen, shot and killed the now-exposed Degan before running back to the Weaver's home.

The Marshalls were evacuated, during which time Randy Weaver recovered his son's body and brought it back to his unattacked workshop.  The Weaver's home, with Randy, wife Vicki, teen daughter Sara, Kevin Harris, and infant daughter inside, was soon sieged by federal agents, beginning a stand-off that would last for many days.  Eleven snipers, including the infamous FBI HRT's Lon Horiuchi, were apparently given (illegal) orders to shoot the Weavers on sight, as they hid in the bushes outside the Weaver home.



The following day, Randy Weaver had decided to give himself up to save his family.  Before doing so, he wanted to pay a last visit to his dead son.  Randy, Kevin, and Sara, carrying rifles at port arms and totally unaware of the snipers, went to the shack behind the house where Sammy lay dead, and said their final prayers.  As they emerged to go back to the house, the Horiuchi fired on them, hitting Kevin, whom he claims to have mistaken for Randy, in the arm.  Vicki Weaver, holding her infant in her arms, heard the shots and opened the door to the cabin as Randy, Kevin, and Sara ran to the door.  Horiuchi fired again, hitting Vicki in the face, killing her.  She died screaming and gurgling for nearly a minute, in plain view of Horiuchi.  He later claimed to have been shooting at Randy, and that he hadn't seen Vicki, though this conficts with other evidence and testimony.

Over the next several days, the siege continued, with federal agents taunting Weaver over loudspeakers constantly about Vicki's death.

"Good morning, Mrs. Weaver! We had pancakes this morning. And what did you have for breakfast? Why don't you send your children out for some pancakes, Mrs. Weaver?"  - FBI negotiator Fred Lanceley

Former Special Forces Colonel Bo Gritz finally arrived and was able to negotiate Randy's surrender shortly before a final assualt on the cabin was to be executed.

In the end, no Federal agents were ever brought to justice, despite several illegal actions, including the issue of illegal, unConstitutional Rules Of Engagement (ROEs), and Horiuchi's killing of an unarmed woman.

The government was eventually forced to pay Randy a 3.1 million dollar settlement in the wrongful death of Vicki Weaver (most agree the figure would have been considerably higher had the case gone to trial).

On October 30, 1996, former FBI section chief E. Michael Kahoe pleads guilty to obstruction of justice. In doing so, Kahoe admits instructing a subordinate to destroy all outstanding copies of an internal "after-action" report on the Ruby Ridge incident, despite having previously agreed to hand it over to the Justice Department

You can learn a lot more of the details from the Weaver's own book, The Federal Siege At Ruby Ridge: In Our Own Words, or by typing "Ruby Ridge Randy Weaver" into any search engine.

-Troy

Quoted: You should know about some things on AR15.com Randy Weaver Waco Standoff Maimi Shootout LA Bank Robbery If you dont know about these things pepole will think your weird.  Oh yes and Pacino used an FN FNC in Heat...

Some better keywords for searching.

Ruby Ridge (Randy Weaver)
Waco (Branch Davidians/David Koresh)
1986 FBI Miami Shootout
North Hollywood Bank Robbery

Heat

-Troy

Quoted: Quoted: Randy Weaver  Could you tell us who Randy Weaver is and a summary of what happened? On October 21, 1989, Randy Weaver was set up by ATF to cut down shotguns below legal length (it took them two years of trying, and taking advantage of him in desperate need for money for his family before he finally agreed), not so they could prosecute him, but so they could force him to become an informant for them by infiltrating a group of Aryan Nations (since they couldn't get in themselves).  Randy had been to one or two meetings several years before, but didn't agree with their violent, militant views, and never returned. Weaver refused to cooperate with ATF.  He was finally charged and arrested on January 17, 1991, over 2 years after the sale of the guns.  He was released on bail (virtually every penny his family had), and was told by the judge that if he was to fight his case and lose, he would have to reimburse the court for court costs, which would mean losing the only thing keeping his family alive: his land.  Further, he was sent documentation from the court to appear on the wrong date (after the actual court appearance was scheduled), and ended up with a federal warrant out for him. The US Marshalls service, prompted by false allegations by ATF about Weaver, had Marshalls in camo survailing him on his own property up in the very rural, isolated mountains of Northern Idaho, where his family lived in a simple house.  On August 21, 1992, his 14-year-old son, Sammy, and a family friend, Kevin Harris (25), were out hunting on their property with their dog Striker, and, unknown to them, were approaching the camo'ed survailance team.  It seems clear that one of the team shot and killed Sammy's dog with a suppressed MP5 as they approached.  The boys, startled and afraid by the gunfire that had killed their dog, fired back in the general direction, and then ran away.  One of the Marshalls, William Degan, rose up and shot Sammy in the back in response.  Kevin, seeing this happen, shot and killed the now-exposed Degan before running back to the Weaver's home. The Marshalls were evacuated, during which time Randy Weaver recovered his son's body and brought it back to his unattacked workshop.  The Weaver's home, with Randy, wife Vicki, teen daughter Sara, Kevin Harris, and infant daughter inside, was soon sieged by federal agents, beginning a stand-off that would last for many days.  Eleven snipers, including the infamous FBI HRT's Lon Horiuchi, were apparently given (illegal) orders to shoot the Weavers on sight, as they hid in the bushes outside the Weaver home. www.outpost-of-freedom.com/images/horiuchi.jpg The following day, Randy Weaver had decided to give himself up to save his family.  Before doing so, he wanted to pay a last visit to his dead son.  Randy, Kevin, and Sara, carrying rifles at port arms and totally unaware of the snipers, went to the shack behind the house where Sammy lay dead, and said their final prayers.  As they emerged to go back to the house, the Horiuchi fired on them, hitting Kevin, whom he claims to have mistaken for Randy, in the arm.  Vicki Weaver, holding her infant in her arms, heard the shots and opened the door to the cabin as Randy, Kevin, and Sara ran to the door.  Horiuchi fired again, hitting Vicki in the face, killing her.  She died screaming and gurgling for nearly a minute, in plain view of Horiuchi.  He later claimed to have been shooting at Randy, and that he hadn't seen Vicki, though this conficts with other evidence and testimony. Over the next several days, the siege continued, with federal agents taunting Weaver over loudspeakers constantly about Vicki's death. "Good morning, Mrs. Weaver! We had pancakes this morning. And what did you have for breakfast? Why don't you send your children out for some pancakes, Mrs. Weaver?"  - FBI negotiator Fred Lanceley Former Special Forces Colonel Bo Gritz finally arrived and was able to negotiate Randy's surrender shortly before a final assualt on the cabin was to be executed. In the end, no Federal agents were ever brought to justice, despite several illegal actions, including the issue of illegal, unConstitutional Rules Of Engagement (ROEs), and Horiuchi's killing of an unarmed woman. The government was eventually forced to pay Randy a 3.1 million dollar settlement in the wrongful death of Vicki Weaver (most agree the figure would have been considerably higher had the case gone to trial). On October 30, 1996, former FBI section chief E. Michael Kahoe pleads guilty to obstruction of justice. In doing so, Kahoe admits instructing a subordinate to destroy all outstanding copies of an internal "after-action" report on the Ruby Ridge incident, despite having previously agreed to hand it over to the Justice Department You can learn a lot more of the details from the Weaver's own book, The Federal Siege At Ruby Ridge: In Our Own Words, or by typing "Ruby Ridge Randy Weaver" into any search engine. -Troy

Tell the truth Troy, you have that saved as a document somewhere on your computer, don't you?

Quoted: Tell the truth Troy, you have that saved as a document somewhere on your computer, don't you?

No, I typed it live as you see it, using a couple of references to pin down the exact dates.  But I suppose I *should* save it...

-Troy

Quoted: Why didn't anyone help Weaver? Is this where we're at? If the SHTF I'll know help will not come....

Dozens of his neighbors and friends, and eventually others, were on the scene, doing what they could.  They're the ones who got ahold of Bo Gritz, who was one of the only people trusted by both parties.  But there were hundreds of federal agents and local police & deputies holding the crowd back away from the house, plus the perimeter guards and the hidden, camo'ed sniper teams.  This occured in an extremely remote part of northern Idaho, on a mountain with only one practical way in or out.  And, it was really the first time something of this nature had occured, and due to the way the media was playing the story, talking mainly about the Marshall who was killed, and how Weaver was a crazy white supremacist (he was a separatist) who had Special Forces training (true), was growing pot (not true), had machine guns (also not true), and had dared to arm even his children.

The basic truth was only really known by his friends in the area, and it wasn't until after Vicki was killed and Randy gave himself up that the real story started to come out.

A large number of folks in the gun community are much more "awake" to this type of thing now, and especially after Waco, which itself had escalated significantly in force, partially due to expected reactions from gun owners.  At Waco, people were kept over a mile away, and the people sieging the house were doing so from inside Bradley fighting vehicles, guarded by helicopters filled with agents with machineguns.  Oh, and it should be mentioned that our boy, Horiuchi, was also at Waco, and despite claiming that he didn't fire a shot there, several cartridge casings were found near his assigned position, in his caliber.

But the Feds learned things too, and rarely let anything drag on this long.  Better to have an "accidental" fire the first day, and not leave anyone else to tell their side of the story.

-Troy