He wants the original FFL back from you because he's afraid you will use to illegally acquire guns with it. He sounds like an idiot, but if you are not an FFL you don't need it anyway so either send it back or copy it and send it back. I guess it's either that or you can just tell the buyer it's his problem as the deal was that you get to keep the original so the problem is between him and his ffl. Personally I'd just mail it back.

Overnighting it is above and beyond the call of duty- but knowing how the guy is thinking about getting his hands on that gun, whatya gonna do? tough being a gunowner first and businessman 2nd Damn decent of you

Quoted: Guns can only be shipped to the addy on the FFL, so I don't know why he would be worried that you would buy guns with it, they would be free when they hit his door.

Got me, but I've heard this before, probably a bunch of baloney but for some reason dealers seem to think you're going to do something- I don't know what, buy guns from a distributor and drive off with them saying that you are picking them up? who knows with gun dealers.

I'm sorry I'm just now stumbling on to this thread.  I've a lot of insight into this shop, this deal, and this complainer.

The shop is owned by one of my better friends, who happens to do transfers for me.  I'm in his shop three times a week or better.  Coincidently, I was at the shop when bobbitybobbity's rifle showed up, without PawnBrokers Northwests original FFL included.

Bgcc11 is incorrect in his statement about PBNW holding the rifle until the FFL showed up.  I was there when UPS dropped it off, I was there when Robert showed up, I was there when Robert filled out the 4473 and went through NICS, and I was there when he apologized for Bgcc11 not being able to follow directions.  PBNW was kind enough to break their company policy of not releasing the gun without the original FFL returned because Robert is a hell of a good guy and doesn't deserve to be punished because Bgcc11 can't follow directions.  Robert DID take the gun home right and then, it was never held waiting for you to get with the program.

Here is a little background information.  As a non-licensee, Bgcc11 has absolutely no need or requirement to have an certified ink signed copy of PBNWs license.  It doesn't matter what is written on it (FILE COPY ONLY), it's still a legal copy, and you don't need it.  I don't blame any FFL for not wanting someone to have a legal copy of thier FFL.  The risk of fraud is there, and a risk that is absolutely unnecessary.

There are some local laws concerning how guns can be recieved by a pawnbroker, but none of them really affect this situation, as this situation can be soley explained through PBNWs company policy.
PBNW has a company policy that they don't want thier license just out floating around.  Part of this policy is that when doing transfers, if you are a Non-Licensee, you must return the original ink signed FFL.  Nothing out of the ordinary, fairly prudent if you ask me.

Now, before everyone dog piles and says "But how was Bgcc11 supposed to know what the company policy was?", I have your answer.  It was sent with the FFL.  Bgcc11 returned the company policy page along with a photocopy of the ink signed FFL and a photocopy of his state issued ID.  


So, now that we've established that Bgcc11 is wrong about the gun being held and is wrong about federal law, and is wrong about PBNWs company policy, lets look at his reaction.  This is what returned today from Bgcc11:



Here is a copy of the company policy that is sent with every FFL:



The other side of the story is always interesting.  I'm betting that many of the posters in this thread will change their opinion on this issue.

Just to make it clear, there was a delay is the delivery of the rifle, but that was not because of the lack of the return of the original FFL, but because the buyer (bobbitybobbity) was out of town.  As soon as he returned, PBNW gave him his gun.

Also, the original FFL didn't show up until today, so you might want to get your overnight shipping fees back.

Quoted: The way I have read it, the Law would say that the fullfilments for the transfer were met without the signed copy being returned.  This was only a company policy, not the Law, saying the FFL copy had to be returned.  Whethe or not this is illegal or not I dont know.  It depends on the wording of the law.  Most likely its worded something like " once blah, blah, blah, and blah have been met, the FFL MUST transfer the firearm to the owner".  If thats the case, then the shop was legally in the wrong.  Any other policy it sets would contradict the law It the law is worded " the shop MAY NOT transfer blah blah blah UNTIL blah, blah, and blah has been completed" , then the company can set any other policy it wants.   Also note that if an FFL does not get a reply from the NIC check within 3 days, they must transfer the firearm anyway. Some state laws with the waiting periods dont apply to the NIC or transfer, but other separate ownerhip or whatever permints.  So even the state laws cant override the FFL laws. (this part Im not certain of since I live in gun loving Mississippi and my FFL dont charge a dime or give any troulbe.  He does it all legally and I've had to force him to take money for doing the transfer so I could feel good about myself) Keep the flames below 900degrees F if im wrong on something boys

You're quite a bit outside of the way things really work.  There are no laws pertaining to the timing of a transfer.  There is no law saying that the Dealer HAS to transfer the gun.  If the dealer doesn't transfer the gun, you could get him in civil court for the cost of the gun, but that is it.  If a dealer decides he doesn't want to transfer, ATF isn't going to make him.  Also, if a dealer doesn't hear back from NICS in 3 days he MAY transfer the gun, not must.

I get the feeling that some of you guys think FFLs are collectively owned, with the imput from the customer being the law of the land.  Like any other private business, it does not have to bend or waiver for any whim a customer wants, especially on a $15 transfer.

And, BTW, the reason the ink signed FFL is sent out with a copy of the company policy is purely for the benefit of the buyer.  Many times with internet transactions, the buyer doesn't know if the seller is a FFL.  Sure, everyone should ask and get those details cleared up first, but in real life, many times there are people that don't know for sure.  This is done just to help speed things up.

And, just to give PBNW a little plug, if you're in the South Sound Region, he's conviently located right off I-5 in Lakewood.  You don't even need to come into the store until your gun arrives.  Give him a call with your details and who you want his license sent to, he'll mail it off, and then call you when the gun arrives.  When you're done with the 4473 and the NICS, hand him $15 and you're done.  Pretty damn convient and easy.  Following a few prudent rules that he has set shouldn't be a problem when he goes out of his way to make things easy on you.

That's screwed up. I am in WA state and here's what I go through when buying a rifle.

1. Get FFL from local dealer.  Dealer is never supposed to give out his license to shop, he should send the FFL to the selling dealers shop.

2. Mail the FFL to the place I buy the rifle from.  Dealer should do this, you should never have his FFL.

3. Order the rifle and pay for it.  No problem here other than you are trying to scam the state out of thier sales tax, don't get caught.

4. The manufacturer of rifle ships it to the dealer from #1 above.  As he is supposed to.

5. I pick up my rifle at the dealer with $15-25 dollar transfer fee. That's the way it works, cept you are most likely supposed to pay state sales tax, even though your dealer is not required to collect it, that does not mean you are not supposed to pay it.


That's it.

If you aren't experiencing this in WA, your dealer has problems.

The dealer has a problem because he was doing a transfer from an individual not another dealer and he mistakenly sent out a copy of his license to shop, now he wants it back.