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Posted: 12/12/2003 5:50:50 PM EDT
[#1]
check the wolf ammo all current ammo does not use laquer at the case neck any more just on the primer,unless you have older ammo,ive put more than 10,000 rouns of that stuff through my bushy and never got what you dscribe come out of the barrel,I would see trhat on a patch right?
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Posted: 12/12/2003 8:18:55 PM EDT
[#2]
I agree on the break cleaner. I usually spray a good blast down the barrel while still at the range (and the barrel is hot), then pull the snake thru a few times. Then clean it all out when I get home. Have been doing that for a long time on the majority of my guns (only 3 yrs on the AR's as that is as long as I have owned them). No problems that I have noted, although, as it has been stated earlier, you must lube with something afterward. It will strip the metal dry. I usually use something with telfon in it. Don't know if it is good or bad, but has been working for me.
Haven't seen the 'red stuff', but I haven't had the opportunity to shoot much Wolfe. Although I am planning to. I am trying to buy another 1000 rds of stash ammo (Q3131 or similar) then plan to alternate. Buy one Wolfe to shoot, and one 'good stuff' to stash. Should have a decent stockpile in a couple years. Just my .02 Doc |
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Posted: 12/12/2003 9:57:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Ouch break cleaner down a hot barrel = I wouldn't do that. For one it is flamable and the other, isn't it bad to cool it down that fast?
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Posted: 12/13/2003 6:42:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Most brake cleaner is NOT flammable, as brakes are part of a car that can get very hot!! Now carburetor cleaner, that IS quite flammable....
I tried brake cleaner on my AR once, and I noticed how white my rifle turned after the cleaner totally got all the oil off every surface it touched. I wasn't sure if the brake cleaner would harm the plastic parts or not, so I quit using it. |
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Posted: 12/13/2003 6:54:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Brake cleaner dries rather quickly (acetone based?)
Unless your shootng right after you clean, fire would not be a problem. |
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Posted: 12/13/2003 7:01:32 AM EDT
[#6]
Kamikazi
Sorry, I guess I should have said warm barrel. I seem to get a better, quicker clean if I remove most of the material before the barrel totally cools off. Definitely agree, I don't spray it down while the barrel is HOT. Although, I did have a friend the other day who walked up and said "How hot does that barrel get?" just after I had bump fired about 60 rds. Before I could say anything, he reached down and grabbed the barrel just in front of the front sight. I was quite impressed that he didn't say a word, just released the barrel rather quickly and his face turned bright red (don't know if it was embarassment or pain. He now has a nice imprint of am M4 barrel step down in the palm of his right hand [:D]. We'll see if it is permanent!! Doc |
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Posted: 12/13/2003 5:43:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Although, I did have a friend the other day who walked up and said "How hot does that barrel get?" just after I had bump fired about 60 rds. Before I could say anything, he reached down and grabbed the barrel just in front of the front sight. bright red (don't know if it was embarassment or pain. He now has a nice imprint of am M4 barrel step down in the palm of his right hand [:D]. We'll see if it is permanent!! I was quite impressed that he didn't say a word, just released the barrel rather quickly and his face turned Doc He'll only do that once. [shock] |
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Posted: 12/13/2003 6:35:17 PM EDT
[#8]
The red stuff is the laquer off of the wolf. No worries!
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Posted: 12/13/2003 6:40:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Most brake cleaner is NOT flammable, as brakes are part of a car that can get very hot!! Gotta call [b]BS[/b] on that remark.. I work in the automotive field, and have use several forms of Brake Cleaner out on the market... They are FLAMMABLE. Been using ZEP Brakewash for last 10yr, it is Isopropyl, Methanol, and Hexane mix, Hexane give the alcohol flame some color so you can see the fire. I have a can of the aerosol in my hand, and it is a Xylene, Acetone and n-Heptane mixture, says "extremely flammable" on the label. Spraying the stuff in a hot or warm barrel will cause the solvent to evaporate almost immedietly, so you are wasting your spray. Spray it on cold parts, it'll stay liquid a little longer. |
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Posted: 12/13/2003 7:08:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Most brake cleaner is NOT flammable, as brakes are part of a car that can get very hot!! Now carburetor cleaner, that IS quite flammable.... By the time the car is on the lift and the wheel and drum are removed, the brakes are quite cool. No one puts brake cleaner on hot brakes! |
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Posted: 12/13/2003 7:19:06 PM EDT
[#11]
LOL at your friend, my cousin grabbed hot casings while he was standing next to me, I forgot to warn him they are very hot...he had a nice .223 imprint on his hand [:)]
I've thought about using break cleaner but I'm not sure yet. Is there any hard evidence proving it will/won't remove the finish on a chrome barrel? |
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Posted: 12/13/2003 7:31:55 PM EDT
[#12]
It wont hurt chrome. Not at all. I have used it for years on a chrome bored AR with no ill effects.
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Posted: 12/13/2003 9:27:30 PM EDT
[#13]
It won't hurt chrome. I am careful not to get any on the finished surfaces of my AR "just in case", although there shouldn't be a problem with quality finishes- it will strip paint faster than you can blink however.
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Posted: 12/14/2003 9:16:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Here is a quote from the ammo faq concerning Bushmasters opinion on cleaning barrels. I personally follow their advise on the barrel. On the rest of the gun I scrub lightly with a brass brush and Break Free CLP then spray-rinse with ether (starting fluid). It works great!!
Opinion: Bushmaster indicates: Mil spec. SS109 ammo will not measurably increase barrel wear under semi-auto fire and our mil. spec. (chrome lined) barrel will outlast any sporting rifle barrel - period. More barrels are ruined from over cleaning - or careless cleaning - than are ever "shot out". Chrome lined barrels really only need to be detail cleaned when the groups start to suffer. Otherwise, a little powder solvent (or "Break Free" with CLP), and a few passes with a brush, clean the chamber well, dry everything off and apply a very light coat of "Break Free" or "Rem-Oil" and put it away. We have had barrels here go 20,000 rounds and still be within mil. spec. when treated this way. |
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Posted: 12/14/2003 9:58:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Do not use a brass brush on your aluminum reciever as it can cause damage to the finish. Use a nylon brush.
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Posted: 12/14/2003 5:45:32 PM EDT
[#16]
The red stuff isnt Laquer, it's the waterproofing from the neck of the case. I think it's beeswax or something like that, I've held a flame under a empty Wolf case for a while and the laquer didnt melt at all. Speaking of hot brass. When I was about 12 my dad was shooting a .22 semi auto next to me, since he's 6'3 one of the cases ejected right ontop of my head and didnt fall off. I left it there just to show him, they cool off after a few seconds anyways lol
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Posted: 12/15/2003 11:53:16 PM EDT
[#17]
I've always been told to use ONLY CPL for both cleaning & lube...., and that brake cleaners and/or Gunscrubber ect.... will only hinder the CPL's ability to impregnate into the metal!!
Anybody else "on board" with this theroy??? RU4FREEDOM -- out |
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Posted: 12/15/2003 11:59:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Sounds like total BS to me. Where did you hear that? I have heard not to mix CLP with other lubes though.
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Posted: 12/16/2003 1:31:17 AM EDT
[#19]
I must agree on BS. Most of those types of cleaners do not leave any residue, and what residue they leave are from I believe waxes in the alcohol and such. The metal is left pratically bone dry and stripped to the pores causing one to have to go back over it with a lubricant to keep it soaking up moisture. As long as the cleanser/Gun Scrubber/etc. has finished evaporating, there is no problem, but it would remove even CLP so naturally you wouldn't want to go mixing degreasers with lubricants as it would be like water and oil. I would think the metal is so well degreased after a product like gun scrubber that it the metal would soak up a lubricant much better than if you had not used the stripper.
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Posted: 12/16/2003 5:01:59 AM EDT
[#20]
If quenching a red-hot barrel by spraying brake cleaner through it caused it to crack, then it really [i]could[/i] be called "break" cleaner! LOL
I've used brake cleaner for years without any problems. It does remove all traces of oil, so it's important to get something on that bare metal ASAP. Just be sure to remove any wooden furniture if you decide to try it on your other weapons... it could attack the finish. FWIW, the older stuff was more volatile, and [i]flammable[/i]! The newer type is meant to be more environment-friendly to go along with the P.C. non-asbestos linings of today. Yeah, brake cleaner and WD-40. Works for me. Never saw that red stuff, though. FITTER |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 5:44:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Ive never tried brake cleaner before. I have to say that on the advice of the experts on this board I may just try it next time. Someone mentioned wd40, I dont think I would use that anymore. I was once at a shop and a guy brought in a semiautomatic 12 gage for trade. The dealer asked him if he ever used wd40 and the guy said that is all he ever used. Then I noticed a total "gum up" of the bolt carrier that would not come off. The dealer said it would take years of use to ruin a gun with wd40, but it would do it. I stoped useing it right away. This was way before my experience with the black mouser. It has never seen anything but mil-spec.
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Posted: 12/16/2003 6:37:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: FWIW, the older stuff was more volatile, and [i]flammable[/i]! The newer type is meant to be more environment-friendly to go along with the P.C. non-asbestos linings of today. FITTER The older stuff was/is just as flammable... the newer stuff is [red][size=2][b]NON-CHLORINATED[/b][/size=2][/red], the older blends smelled of dry cleaning solution, or trichloroethane, or 1,1,1, what ever that is. |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 12:03:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: trichloroethane Oh my holy of holy chemicals, how I miss thee, especially as an electronics technician. We used to have 5 gallons liquid buckets of the stuff to dunk things in, sprays out the wazoo - I stocked up on many cleaners and solvents when I heard they were going to ban it. Trick, where are you ole buddy? Don't forget, when dealing with aerosols, the liquid may not be flammable, but the propellant could be, and highly at that! |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 3:14:24 AM EDT
[#24]
There are two basic "flavors" of brake cleaner around these days. The non-ozone depleting kind, which is flammable and also can damage a lot of plastics. It has a lot of aromatics in it like Hexane, etc. The other is the old kind containing Trichloroethylene ("Trike", a relative of the dry cleaning fluid Perchloroethylene). Trike used to be the only kind you could buy, but now it can be tough to find. The stuff you want to use is 100% Trike, it is non-flammable, so read the ingredients. VIP auto has it for dirt cheap. $1.99 for a can of their "red label" brand. Use in a well-ventilated area :-)
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Posted: 12/17/2003 3:33:34 AM EDT
[#25]
I've been using brake cleaner for a while now on the advice of my friendly gun shop owner. I mostly use it to flush out a powder solvent before I use a copper solvent so as to not mix the two. I also use it to clean my bolt carrier. It really gets the inside of the carrier key clean. I use it to remove the lube in the tube before a range session as well.
Stainless, do you really put your cleaning solvents down your sink drain? Man that's bad juju. Shabo |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 5:08:53 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: There are two basic "flavors" of brake cleaner around these days. The non-ozone depleting kind, which is flammable and also can damage a lot of plastics. It has a lot of aromatics in it like Hexane, etc. The other is the old kind containing Trichloroethylene ("Trike", a relative of the dry cleaning fluid Perchloroethylene). Trike used to be the only kind you could buy, but now it can be tough to find. The stuff you want to use is 100% Trike, it is non-flammable, so read the ingredients. VIP auto has it for dirt cheap. $1.99 for a can of their "red label" brand. Use in a well-ventilated area :-) You know of where you speak. I used to get perk in 5 gal quantities. Great cleaner. If you look for the brake cleaner "Brakleen",it comes in ozone friendly green can or old school red can.Get the red. Use only in a well ventilated area. |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 5:20:07 AM EDT
[#27]
Stainless, do you really put your cleaning solvents down your sink drain? Man that's bad juju. Shabo the garage sink, same place i dump out the bucket when i scrub my bathroom/kitchen/anything. front or back lawn in unacceptable place to clean AR's (would scare the waahoo out of the neighbors). |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 10:14:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: I've always been told to use ONLY CPL for both cleaning & lube...., and that brake cleaners and/or Gunscrubber ect.... will only hinder the CPL's ability to impregnate into the metal!! Anybody else "on board" with this theroy??? Per US Army TM 9-1005-319-10, you shouldn’t use “hot water or other solvents” to clean an M16 since it will wash away the Teflon that has been building up as a result of using CLP. IIRC, there’s also a statement in the army’s M16 armorer manual stating not to use dry cleaning solvents for the same reason I don’t know if this would be an issue if you were using a CLP that doesn’t contain Teflon. |
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Posted: 12/18/2003 7:36:17 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm not sure on the brake cleaner, however, the gun scrubber will leave a light spot on the polymer finishes. I have found you can blend it back by moistning with rem oil, or clp.
Mike |
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