gents,

i have a fixed telestock on my postban BM M4gery, recent production (2003).

i'd like to shorten the stock by approximately 1/2" to 3/4" as it is just a wee bit too long for my torso and arms.  currently it's a tiny bit cumbersome to get both my nose against the charging handle AND a decent shoulder weld.  plus my wife could get a much better stance as well.  :)

anyway, is it possible to slightly shorten a "fixed" stock?  i noticed the two roll pins that were inserted by the folks at BM.  can these be driven out and reinserted?  anyone done so and what were your results?  would BM do this upon request?

(btw, while we are on the subject and someone is bound to ask, what is the minimum OA length for a postban black rifle?  note i am NOT looking to "close up" my fixed stock a la the mil SOPMOD M4 or a preban AR, just looking to shorten the stock to receiver distance by a tad.)

thanks for any input/suggestions/comments/hate mail/etc!

ar-jedi

If the Bushmaster stock uses a full length lower extension(buffer tube) within the stock, then I would say no. Not that it wouldn't be possible, but that it would be quite a task to do so.

Shortening a telestyled stock is fairly easy.  I did it to a carbine for a while.  Yes the pins can be driven out, new holes re drilled and the pins re inserted at the ne position.  You'll need to cut down the buffer tube as well.  I used a common hack saw.  You'll also need to drill a new hole for the allen screw at the bottom of the stock.  Now the problem is, will the ATF consider this legal.  I can't say for sure, I've heard arguments both ways.  I mean the stock can't be retracted of extended without taking the thing apart.  If you want you could throw some JB weld in the old holes so they can't be used again.

To be honest, I couldn't tell you if this is legal.  I went ahead and bought a preban and am currently turning all my postbans into 20" rifles with A2 stocks.

FYI, the buffer tube used on the telestyled stock has about 2 or so inches of solid metal at the end of the tube that can be cut away.  I even went so far as drilling a drainage hole in mine.

Well that will definitely make the job a lot easier. Thanks for the info.

> Now the problem is, will the ATF consider this legal.

i can't see how the "slightly shortened" fixed telestock could be deemed illegal.  for that matter, BM sells a "Stubby A2 Stock" (PN 9349119-S-KIT) which is 2.1" shorter than the standard issue A2 stock.  the text in the catalog says "[...] it is not much longer than a compressed telestock.  It's just long enough to be legal length with 16" barrelled guns [...]."

anyway, i might have a go with taking a 1/2" or so off of my tube.  i was thinking of using a pipe cutter which should make a nice even cut in contrast to using a hack saw.

thanks for the advice above and any other thoughts.

ar-jedi

you're playing a dangerous game here. Though common sense says that no matter what you fix up is Non-collapsable, it was never acctually BATF-Approved. Therefore it could be illegal in their eyes.
Keep in mind that gun-laws are not based on logic. Therefore the application of logic is a worthless effort.
Anyway I suggest selling your post ban stock while you still can, (i sold mine on ebay for $80) and buy an ACE ARFX-E stock. Del-ton on the EE has them for cheap.

[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=6460[/img]
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=6461[/img]

Well...I guess that sums up that question  :-)

KillJoy

For whatever it adds to the discussion, I have observed that the "fixed postban" CAR stocks offered by Model 1 Sales and many other vendors is a modified collapsible stock with the short tube and CAR buffer that has been "fixed" in the open position by the use of a bolt.

well, from the ATF position in the letter above it would appear that as long as the stock is permanently affixed in position, it's legit.

just FYI, the 2003 BM catalog states that their fixed telestock uses a "full length A2 buffer tube and spring".

ar-jedi

I wish i'd known this before i forked out the cash for a new stock. Oh well, I still like it though.
For all of you wondering, VA-gunnut just settled an ancient question, that has been on this board for ages. THANK YOU!

Sort of.  The ATF letter states that we must "weld" the stock in place if we shorten it.  They do not say that the current bolt which is legal, would still be legal.  Unless they are using the term "weld" to have a loose meaning which allows for a bolt to satisfy the requirement?

That's right, it's a full length A2 buffer, so you can't shorten a Bushy Telestyled stock to a "fully collapsed" position, BUT like I said, you can take off an inch or 2 to make it more comfy for shooting.

If you find an older styled stock that uses a CAR buffer, then you will have more metal to play with.  That's the one I chose to do.  I cut down enough to make it "fully collapsed."

I was also considering using the CAR stock end on a Bushy Telestyled tube because I prefer the look of the CAR stock, but I wanted the reliability of an A2 buffer, but then I figured why ruin a 100 dollar stock. [:D]

The letter I posted had been sent to another member(from TX if I remember correctly) last year. He mailed me the letter so I could scan and post it on the board. I have kept the image just for these kinds of discussions.

As far as "weld" goes, I would think that any kind of permanent method would qualify. I don't think a bolt through the stock really cuts it, but since I don't work for the BATFE I can't say for sure.[:)]