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Posted: 9/10/2003 10:13:37 AM EDT
[#1]
The FFL, store, etc. keep their copies and these can always be accessed. They are turned in when one closes up shop to the ATF. The only way to have guns Big Brother, and ultimately the U.N., does not know about is to buy only from individuals.
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Posted: 9/10/2003 10:17:27 AM EDT
[#2]
The yellow 4473 form which you fill'd out, when you made your purchase, STAYS with the licensed FFL dealer. This form only goes to the BATF should that FFL dealer go out of business or should they have reason to come and check their records.
Others may correct me if I'm wrong, but should they come to look at a FFL dealers records, they are not allowed to copy ALL his records, only those which may affect their investigation. So if you purchased your firearms at reputable, long term shops that are still in business, the only way your 4473 would end up in the BATFs records is as stated above "outta business" or firearms was used in commission of a crime or stolen. For those who purchase multiple firearms at one time, there is a second form, "multiple gun purchase form" that is filled out and sent to the BATF, this is to prevent someone from buying 50 pistols, driving to DC and sellin them outta the trunk of their car. Makin it easy to track, should gun be used in crime, and they find out yahoo (trunk dealer) bought 50 of 'em. Hope this helps, Mike |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 12:28:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: The FFL, store, etc. keep their copies and these can always be accessed. They are turned in when one closes up shop to the ATF. The only way to have guns Big Brother, and ultimately the U.N.,[red] does not know about is to buy only from individuals.[/red] True, but (Let's say), since I got my Ar15 from the store (or my lower via FFL) they will come looking for me to give it up, but because I sold it to you I am going to point them in your direction (just to save my ass). Here in NJ we are allowed to do private sales, but there is a special form we can fill for this type of sticky situation. So just to answer your question...everything is traceable. BR |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 12:44:45 PM EDT
[#4]
I would find it hard to believe that they can trace any gun that doesn't have a serial number. Or any bolt gun that has the serial number on the barrel, and barrels can burn out.
I would think that any unmarked gun that you didn't make (pre-68) would be rather untraceable even if you bought it through a dealer. OK, they would know you had a gun, but which one? It was a remington 22 rifle and it was a bolt action. So what. I got that from my grampa. The other one that I got from Mr, FFL wasn't in as good of condition and I wanted a pair of twins so I sold it. Then I used the money to buy this one here. I *think* I got from a guy named Ralph Nader when we met at a gas station at exit 74 on interstate 32. Except that interstate was redone, and they moved the exit to the other side. I think...damn, I might not have got it from him. Ok, I think that is the one I got with the signed letter of authenticity from Sarah Brady. No...really...I did! Get the picture? Buy from an individual and don't worry about it. |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 12:53:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: I know that handguns, and "Assault Rifles" are registered firearms that are completely traceable. Gun registration? Who here has to register handguns or even assault rifles? |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 1:18:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Only buy from Individuals.....AND ther is no reg of assault weapons at all Maybe in CA but no as far as the ATF is concerned
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Posted: 9/10/2003 1:28:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: For those who purchase multiple firearms at one time, there is a second form, "multiple gun purchase form" that is filled out and sent to the BATF, this is to prevent someone from buying 50 pistols, driving to DC and sellin them outta the trunk of their car. Makin it easy to track, should gun be used in crime, and they find out yahoo (trunk dealer) bought 50 of 'em. Unless your state specifies if only multiple handgun sales have to be reported by the FFL. Multiple longgun sales do not have to be reported, only recorded on the 4473 with all serial #'s. |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 1:29:09 PM EDT
[#8]
FFL's are required to keep your yellow form 4473's for 20 years, your multiple HANDGUN (not for rifles or shotguns) 3310.4 form must be kept for 5 years (Though copies are mailed to various agencies). your bound book of every transaction, though not as complete as yellow sheets, must be retained indefinitely. if your FFL closes up shop he has 30 days to get everything of his to the ATF.
im waiting on my FFL to get here and reading up on the laws now............... |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 3:05:03 PM EDT
[#9]
They know now.
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Posted: 9/10/2003 3:19:35 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't have to worrie about the multipul gun form. I am registered as a collector, and that exempts me from that form.
If an AR has a 16" or less barrel, it has to be registered as an assault rifle in Maryland. Which is one of the reasons I got a 20" I was just wondering since my collection is growing, I wondered what the goverment monitored, and I heard conflicting stories about "Unregulated" firearms, which only require the short form. 4 forms today to get my 40 cal Beretta 9000s. Damn I hate paperwork. |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 3:25:21 PM EDT
[#11]
me 'i don't know, i sold it to some dude at a gunshow'.
i don't keep records.. the way they'll get rid of things is to start issuing FOID cards like in IL and registering AW's in CA. then they know who has them and since AW's are not transferreable (to my knoweldge) within CA it should be fairly easy for them to find the weapons in question. |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 3:25:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Gun registration? Who here has to register handguns or even assault rifles? Every handgun sold in the PRK is registered automatically as part of the transfer process (there are no private sales; all sales must go through an FFL in the PRK). And, of course, anything the PRK consideres an AW was supposed to have been registered in 2000, though compliance was estimated to be 5-10%. -Troy |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 4:32:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Can you bring your privately owned handgun to CA from another state or is that a no no like bringing my AR15?
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Posted: 9/10/2003 5:03:45 PM EDT
[#14]
[url]aag.state.ca.us/firearms/ab991.htm[/url]
Effective January 1, 1998, any person who moves into California and who brings any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is considered to be a "Personal Handgun Importer" and is required to do one of the following within 60 days: Complete and submit a Report of Handgun Ownership form along with $14.00 to the Department of Justice. A separate report form and $14.00 fee is required for each handgun reported. Report of Handgun Ownership forms can be obtained from California Department of Motor Vehicles' offices, licensed firearms dealers, local police and sheriff's departments, the California Department of Justice Firearms Division at (916) 227-3703, and from the Online Forms Page at this site. Sell or transfer the handgun(s) to a California licensed firearms dealer or to another individual using a California licensed firearms dealer to conduct the transaction. or Sell or transfer the handgun(s) to a California police or sheriff's department. Persons choosing this option should contact the law enforcement agency for instructions prior to transporting the handgun(s) to the agency. Any person transporting handguns in California is required under California law to transport those handguns unloaded and in a locked container other than the glove compartment or utility compartment of a vehicle. Please be aware that failure to comply with these mandated handgun requirements could result in criminal prosecution (Penal Code Section 12072(g)). -Troy |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 5:09:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: I know that handguns, and "Assault Rifles" are registered firearms that are completely traceable. But what about regular rifles and shotguns. Only if you live in a slave state is your gun "registered" or "traceable". Those of us who live in the Free States do not have this problem. |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 5:16:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: For those who purchase multiple firearms at one time, there is a second form, "multiple gun purchase form" that is filled out and sent to the BATF, this is to prevent someone from buying 50 pistols, driving to DC and sellin them outta the trunk of their car. Actually it doesn't prevent them from doing this at all. The gun a month club is designed to stop the straw purchases for resale. The purpose of this form was because Charles Whitman bought several guns the same day, and then went on a killing spree. In the 35 years it has been in existence, it has not prevented a single crime AFAIK. Also, It only applies to handguns within a 5 day period. |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 5:33:14 PM EDT
[#17]
When i lived in MA, I had to fill out the same form(Form 10?) when selling to a private party as I would fill out when buying at a FFL.That form had 3 copies... 1 to me, 1 to the buyer and 1 to the state of MA.
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Posted: 9/10/2003 5:39:38 PM EDT
[#18]
The only way their getting mine, is from my 'cold dead hands'.
I don't plan on lettin' that happen. |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 5:43:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Gun registration? Who here has to register handguns or even assault rifles? Every handgun sold in the PRK is registered automatically as part of the transfer process (there are no private sales; all sales must go through an FFL in the PRK). And, of course, anything the PRK consideres an AW was supposed to have been registered in 2000, though compliance was estimated to be 5-10%. -Troy Whats a PRK? |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 6:51:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Gun registration? Who here has to register handguns or even assault rifles? Every handgun sold in the PRK is registered automatically as part of the transfer process (there are no private sales; all sales must go through an FFL in the PRK). And, of course, anything the PRK consideres an AW was supposed to have been registered in 2000, though compliance was estimated to be 5-10%. -Troy Whats a PRK? People's Republic of Kalifornistan (or Kalifornia?) |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 9:41:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Then again some of the tin foil boys figure the gummint already knows all and sees all ergo everything about what you got anyway they know and have a permanent swat team assigned fer your butt, so a formal registration is redundant. And then you have the gummint is hideously incompetent crowd, even if they had a registration today they ain't gonna be able to find it tomorrow. Me I figure they're in the middle somewhere.
In other words with a little old fashioned leg work they can find out if you bought a gun from a dealer. Now if you was sloppy getting rid of it. Well, you can figure out how interested in it they may get depending on what it gets used for. It would take probably less than a day to finish the first legs of a trail on a recent Long gun of any kind. MFR to Distributor to Dealer, 2 calls and then an in person visit. |
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