I would like to start a discussion on the AR-180 vs the AR15. History, why one selected over the other, general characterisitcs, etc...

Thank you,

Karl

Karl, a real discussion would likely stop the board !!

The AR-15 was designed in the 1950's and the military adopted that rifle as the M-16 by the time the AR-18/AR-180 was designed.
(Jim Sullivan and Bob Fremont designed the ArmaLite AR-15 while Art Miller designed the AR-18/180 in 1963.)

Yes, ArmaLite hoped to supplant the M-16 with the AR-18 but that didn't happen and that story is likely a fairly decent article by itself.  ArmaLite in designing the AR-18/180 seemed to be reaching for a more accurate AK and a rifle also with a high degree of reliability.  The rifle was designed so that production could easily be set up in most third world countries.  However, this was the height of the cold war and any country that wanted weapons could get them free from either the US or the Soviet Union.

The AR-18 was basically another tale of the right rifle at the wrong time.

Check out the following review on Cruffler.com: [url]http://www.cruffler.com/Features/JAN-02/review-January-02.html[/url]

Has some good historical info.  There's also a review of a Rock River Arms AR, a CETME, and some other interesting arms in the archive.

--Otter

Does anybody know if you could get an AR-180 with a chrome-lined bbl? Anyone have one of the new rifles by armalite and wish to offer an opinion?

Karl

Otter,

Great information! I wonder if armalite might change the rifle if the AWB sunsets. I am strongly considering getting an AR-180 now.

Thanks,

Karl

I'm gonna be safe and play both sides of the fence...

I'm gonna get me a AR-180b as soon as my position can handle it.


I've pondered a few 180's in my time.. but was always after something else at the time...the 180B is supposedly better.

The AR-180b seems like a really good rifle, AK reliability, AR parts and magazines, lighter weight than some 16" AR's, affordable,...

But, I wish it had a chrome-lined barrel and a way to add a flash hider if the AWB sunsets.

Karl

I had an AR-180B and it was a neat, light little weapon. The non-chrome lined bore was my reason for selling it. I called Armalite and they had no plans of making chrome lined bores for these rifles. If they ever do, I'll buy another one.

I believe we'll see chrome lined barrels and flattop uppers on the AR-180B but I also believe that will be next year.  And maybe a flash suppressor in 2005 !!

what are the differences between the stoner weapon system and the Ar-180?

Karl

Karl, there are several Stoner weapons systems.  Stoner had nothing to do with the AR-18's design - he just didn't believe the 5.56mm cartridge was adequate for military use and only designed two weapons in that caliber through out his career.  Neither was ever produced although I heard last year the Stoner 86 Machine Gun might yet be produced.

Eugene Stoners most notable designs were - IMHO - the AR-10, the Stoner 62 and the SR-25.  Note that all were 7.62.

I like the AR180. Allot!

It is light and simple. From the manufacturing standpoint, it is cheap to build. Polymers and stamped metal.

I think it suffers from a little of the Apple Computer syndrome. Adopt standards or die.

The AR180 has no "modular" capabilities. Look at all the RAS systems deployed. The ability to attach lights, lasers, optics, and vert grips is a requirement (at least for me).

If ArmaLite would take advantage of where the end users are migrating I think the AR180B would take off. I'd like to see Cav Arms type colors and Robinson Armament type modularity.

--LS

longshot, what we're seeing now in the AR-180B is just the beginning of what I believe will be a family of weapons - different barrels, uppers, rails, etc., - will all eventually be offered.  At present ArmaLite is still digging out from under about a years backorders and it's kind of hard to convince them that anything must be changed now !!

one thing I think they really need (IMHO) is a picatiny rail on the top of that thing, not their antiquidated mount system.

and I didn't know about the non-chrome lined..

but the 'rail' on top and milspec the bbl, and I think they'll do exceptionally well!

[b]7IDL, without the above the AR-180B IS doing exceptionally well.[/b]  At present ArmaLite is completing orders for various allied militaries as well as working through their back log of AR-180B orders.  Most of the things we want will come but not immediately.

As for their "antiquated mount system", this AR-180B was designed to as closely emulate the original preban AR-180 as was possible given the postban restraints.  In many ways this rifle was a 'thank you' to the extremely loyal cadre of preban AR-18/AR-180 owners (and ClassIII, ClassII two dealers and manufacturers) who had kept the dream alive for many years.

Now as for the mil-spec business - ArmaLite is a military supplier and I doubt they will ever offer a mil-spec AR to the civilian market.  Too many factors go into producing a true, no B/S mil-spec product - which mil-spec - who QC's to the mil-spec, etc., etc., ???  Simply going to a chrome lined barrel is not moving to a true mil-spec barrel.  

[b]I know of no AR by any manufacturer that is mil-spec and available to the civilian market.[/b]

You can get a B-Square or S&K (someone finally provided the link and I am getting 2).  It comes with a weaver rail and you can adapt any scope to it, just like any other weaver rail.

As for the chrome lined, I do prefer that but is certainly no deal breaker.  Chrome moly is actually a little more accurate.  The chrome lining is not that important unless you are in a constantly moist atmosphere.

I was one of them as I have 3 originals and I thank them very much for keeping it as close as possible to the original, given the postban restraints.

You gotta get at least one of the originals and a 180B, but that's just my greedy opinion.  You actually need one by each of the 3 original manufacturers (Sterling in England and Howa in Japan, both under license, and the ones that ArmaLite produced in Costa Mesa) like I have, but now we are getting real greedy.  You can get a decent Sterling shooter for $800-$900 and it's a preban with the folding stock, bayo lug, and flash suppressor.  Very accurate for a 1/12.  The 180B has 1/9.

That would be a flash suppressor, not a hider.

As for putting one on when the ban sunsets, a qualified gunsmith can cut off the integral brake, thread the barrel and put an A2 (or whatever you chose) on it, but he will have to be careful to keep it 16 inches or better.