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Posted: 10/25/2017 11:17:13 AM EDT
[#1]
Yes & yes, wasn't reliable with a standard buffer.
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Posted: 10/28/2017 5:59:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Defender3]
[#2]
I took the 260 out to Quantico today, not necessarily to shoot it, but I had it with me while I was testing the new LaRue in 6.5CM. The 6.5 was shooting so well it got boring, so I took out the 260 to at least try something a tad different. I was shooting the Gorilla 130gr Bergers I've had for some time and I have to say, while they did not do too well at 100 as far as tight groups, they really did well at 300 and 600. I was on target in a couple of rounds and then just keep banging the steel. I'll shoot the rest of it and get some good Peterson brass to reload out of the deal.
 They are lower velocity rounds so I did need a few clicks up from the range card. Sorry, no real pictures as I was detailing the 6.5CM.
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Posted: 10/28/2017 6:07:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Looks fun!
Congrats on your G swag pack win ;) |
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Posted: 10/28/2017 6:10:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DuneShoot:
Looks fun! Congrats on your G swag pack win ;) |
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Posted: 10/28/2017 6:12:51 PM EDT
[#5]
You won a swag pack from Geissele for best caption.
At the very end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt08xx1jk7w |
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Posted: 10/28/2017 6:15:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DuneShoot:
You won a swag pack from Geissele for best caption. At the very end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt08xx1jk7w |
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Posted: 10/28/2017 8:38:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WillysJeep]
[#7]
Dupe, saw you posted 6.5C in the 6.5 thread.
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MD, USA
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Posted: 10/29/2017 3:45:19 AM EDT
[#8]
Close to starting load development for the 260, but in the mean time I grabbed another box of 120gn Federal fusion due to one of my buddies wanting to do some shooting today.
Only sent 6rds down range out of the tOBR though  Spent most of my time dicking with labradar and shooting my 300win on the 100yd and ran out of time when we moved over to the 200yd...
Friday night, 200 lapua brass waiting to get processed along with 40(now 46) federal once fired, which is now waiting on a new universal decapper (and now I want a co axe press... damn you D3  )
First 3 shot today, not sure what happened here lol 
Next 3 seemed to find the mark  can't wait to see what happens after I do some OCW/Ladder tuned loads
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Posted: 10/29/2017 5:58:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WillysJeep:
Dupe, saw you posted 6.5C in the 6.5 thread. 
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Posted: 10/29/2017 6:00:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WolfMetalFab:
Close to starting load development for the 260, but in the mean time I grabbed another box of 120gn Federal fusion due to one of my buddies wanting to do some shooting today. Only sent 6rds down range out of the tOBR though Spent most of my time dicking with labradar and shooting my 300win on the 100yd and ran out of time when we moved over to the 200yd...
Friday night, 200 lapua brass waiting to get processed along with 40(now 46) federal once fired, which is now waiting on a new universal decapper (and now I want a co axe press... damn you D3 )
https://i.imgur.com/DGaLydMl.jpg First 3 shot today, not sure what happened here lol https://i.imgur.com/ioKOTNNl.jpg Next 3 seemed to find the mark can't wait to see what happens after I do some OCW/Ladder tuned loads
https://i.imgur.com/3rnPHlSl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/mByaZxvl.jpg |
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Posted: 10/29/2017 8:29:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Loading stuff update:
processed the lapua brass with 290 neck bushing, sampling of casing giving me a 0.260-0.261" inside the neck, close to the 0.003" tension point I was shooting for. Looks like if I wanted it dead nuts for all of them neck turning would be required, but I'm not set up to do that and not really sure I want to spend that much time messing with it (least at the current moment) Powder selection, after loads of reading, and much googling I'm going to try load development on 130gn norma GT with Winchester 760 because why not, I have 2 lbs of the stuff sitting and I'm partly trying to stay away from some of the more common used stuff like H4350 and IMR4350. The win 760 sits about mid way between Varget and the 4350 on the burn rate chart from hodgdon. Load data I'm using hodgdon and nosler data for 130gn AB pills and crossing some of the charge weights against Hornady's 130gn data, going to be aiming for ~2700fps and do a 0.2gn ladder test The rest of the powders I have on hand are either way to quick or slow burning from what I have been reading (I may end up pulling down 40rds of 300win that got loaded with IMR 4350 just for that reason because I have 4lbs of IMR 7828 that would be better suited for the bolt guns) Damn this bench is a mess, I really need to build a new storage solution for dies and bullets 
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Posted: 10/30/2017 5:56:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WolfMetalFab:
Loading stuff update: processed the lapua brass with 290 neck bushing, sampling of casing giving me a 0.260-0.261" inside the neck, close to the 0.003" tension point I was shooting for. Looks like if I wanted it dead nuts for all of them neck turning would be required, but I'm not set up to do that and not really sure I want to spend that much time messing with it (least at the current moment) Powder selection, after loads of reading, and much googling I'm going to try load development on 130gn norma GT with Winchester 760 because why not, I have 2 lbs of the stuff sitting and I'm partly trying to stay away from some of the more common used stuff like H4350 and IMR4350. The win 760 sits about mid way between Varget and the 4350 on the burn rate chart from hodgdon. Load data I'm using hodgdon and nosler data for 130gn AB pills and crossing some of the charge weights against Hornady's 130gn data, going to be aiming for ~2700fps and do a 0.2gn ladder test The rest of the powders I have on hand are either way to quick or slow burning from what I have been reading (I may end up pulling down 40rds of 300win that got loaded with IMR 4350 just for that reason because I have 4lbs of IMR 7828 that would be better suited for the bolt guns) Damn this bench is a mess, I really need to build a new storage solution for dies and bullets https://i.imgur.com/oc3GHzvl.jpg I have all winter to work up some loads and will try that 290 bushing to see what I get. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 2:03:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Defender3]
[#13]
Sorry guys, I've been tied up with the 6.5CM LaRue and missed range time this weekend. It also looks like the Corps is taking a well-deserved weekend off so no ranges until at least 18 November.
Also, shameless bump to the top to keep this thread alive!  Frankenstein "It's Alive" Scene  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 6:44:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Can anyone confirm that the JP Enterprise high pressure bolt, cam pin and firing pin will work in the LaRue chrome 308 bolt carrier? Thanks.
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Posted: 11/7/2017 7:03:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MFST1:
Can anyone confirm that the JP Enterprise high pressure bolt, cam pin and firing pin will work in the LaRue chrome 308 bolt carrier? Thanks. |
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Posted: 11/7/2017 10:17:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks D3. Curious why you chose to use the LaRue cam and retaining pin instead of the JP parts.
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Posted: 11/8/2017 4:13:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WolfMetalFab]
[#17]
So, load work up seems to be going somewhere. Made it out to the range Sunday, after blasting 100 rds of 12ga shells at the trap range for a club shoot I took off to the 100 yr rifle and got set up.
Totally forgot to take any pics of the setup, just shooting mat, labradar, rear bag and my ghetto looking diy shell catcher (I'll take a pic next time I'm out). Reloads shot well, most ejecting to 3 o'clock, I had 4 shells that ended up at about 5, but not sure if they hit the shell catcher. Brass has no pressure signs on them. Looks promising
Chrono results for the Win 760 powder with 130gn Norma golden target OTM neck sized with .290" bushing and loaded to 2.800" I need to learn how to make my spread sheets nice looking like D3's  Attached FileFirst, dusting some clays 
The ladder  
Cases: 
Looks like I need to work on the settings for the app, first time I have done multiple groups...  
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Posted: 11/8/2017 6:14:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MFST1:
Thanks D3. Curious why you chose to use the LaRue cam and retaining pin instead of the JP parts. |
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Posted: 11/8/2017 7:44:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Thanks again.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/8/2017 10:51:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Defender3:
Pretty sure I did that back on page 7/8. IIRC, I used the JP HP bolt and FP, but the LaRue cam and retainer. Thanks! |
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Posted: 11/8/2017 12:17:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By awpk03s:
With the JP firing pin, did you reuse the spring found on the Larue firing pin? Or just use the JP pin as-is? Thanks! |
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Posted: 11/9/2017 10:47:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Who was going to test the Warner flatlines? Did anyone load some of those up?
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Posted: 11/10/2017 12:38:55 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Defender3:
Who was going to test the Warner flatlines? Did anyone load some of those up? Going up north Sunday to shoot longer ranges, I'll try to post some good stuff. Id like to see how deep they have to go and still have a good bto. I didn't want to buy 50 and have it not turn out. I sent a message for a evaluation sample and the never responded. |
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Posted: 11/10/2017 12:49:09 PM EDT
[#24]
D3 can you give me a good starting MV to play with bullet drop? Do you have a MV for the 22", with tranquilo, shooting 130gr ELDM ammo? Will gas port setting affect MV? If so...do you have that setup with the gas port set to unsupressed?
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Posted: 11/10/2017 4:30:01 PM EDT
[#25]
D3,
Finally got the JP HP bolt installed in the LaRue bolt carrier. Tried to use the LaRue cam as you suggested, but it was too wide to fit in the JP bolt. Tried the JP cam, but the flange of the cam wouldn't clear the gas key on the bolt carrier. The width of the flange on the LaRue cam pin was .389. Width of JP cam flange was .405. Carefully dremmeled down both sides of the flange on the JP cam back to .389. Works like a charm. Also, you were correct on the firing pin retaining pin. The JP pin is too big for the LaRue BCG. Prime ammo should be arriving next week. Guess I'll have to borrow the lower off the 7.62 t-OBR for now. |
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Posted: 11/10/2017 11:58:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Those that are trying the jp hp bolt....
What made you go that route? I'm really curious how the two really compare. The firing pin and hole is or is not smaller? And what else makes the jp an upgrade? |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 7:20:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dHUTCH:
D3 can you give me a good starting MV to play with bullet drop? Do you have a MV for the 22", with tranquilo, shooting 130gr ELDM ammo? Will gas port setting affect MV? If so...do you have that setup with the gas port set to unsupressed? |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 7:23:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Defender3]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mettee:
Those that are trying the jp hp bolt.... What made you go that route? I'm really curious how the two really compare. The firing pin and hole is or is not smaller? And what else makes the jp an upgrade? |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 7:23:54 AM EDT
[#29]
As a reminder, there is an Index on page 1 that might answer questions folks have.
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Posted: 11/11/2017 12:13:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Defender3:
I'm not sure I would call it an upgrade, but the JP bolt has a smaller firing pin hole that lessens primer flow. There's info on the LaRue and JP on Page 12. I'm more interested to bring to light how important the bolt change over really is. The firing pin diameter reduction reduces the amount of area around that pin that is tolerance. And that tolerance is where the primer would deform into. So they have reduced the amount of unsupported material of the primer. So improvement seems dependent on the yield strength of the primer, if it's not being hit hard with the normal size pin its not going to matter on the smaller pin. Mark said the smaller pin was unnecessary and after breaking it down it makes more sense. |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 7:07:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mettee:
Those that are trying the jp hp bolt.... What made you go that route? I'm really curious how the two really compare. The firing pin and hole is or is not smaller? And what else makes the jp an upgrade? Allows reliable AR functional with previously incompatible over-pressured loads such as 6.5mm or 6mm calibers Virtually eliminates primer flow and pierced primers Reduced firing pin mass improves lock time and ignition reliability with hard primers Features same quality construction and advantages of other JP EnhancedBolts™ Backwards compatible with standard .308 ejectors, extractors and gas rings Lifetime bolt warranty YMMV |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 11:04:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mettee]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MFST1:
From the JP Enterprises web site : Allows reliable AR functional with previously incompatible over-pressured loads such as 6.5mm or 6mm calibers Virtually eliminates primer flow and pierced primers Reduced firing pin mass improves lock time and ignition reliability with hard primers Features same quality construction and advantages of other JP EnhancedBolts™ Backwards compatible with standard .308 ejectors, extractors and gas rings Lifetime bolt warranty YMMV What ammo contains hard primers? And what primers out there now are hard? If we are following through is lock time a real concern? If we shoot saami spec ammo are we going over pressure? At this point I've shot all the factory 260 stuff with little to no pressure signs. There is some primer flow, but all the loads seem to form the same shape, even the prime. LC federal m80 ball, Prime, Hornady, then the gorilla, all the 260 seem to have the same primer flow. Meaning they compare very closely. The 308 was there for my own curiosity. Gorilla or the Peterson stamped brass is the lowest pressure of the bunch, gathered from slower mv's. 
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Posted: 11/12/2017 10:33:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Defender3]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mettee:
I guess my question would be, how do we know that the LaRue bolt does not contain the spec to achieve the same rating? Good point. The LaRue carrier has three gas ports to relieve pressure and Mark is using it on his 260 and 6.5CM rifles. My understanding is the LaRue 260 has been used by Delta and the SOCOM types for two-years now, so I would assume the bolt is GTG. An equally appropriate question could be what makes the JP "High Pressure" not found in other bolts? What ammo contains hard primers? Certain military ammo that we probably won't shoot.And what primers out there now are hard? If we are following through is lock time a real concern? Lock time is a concern if you want to save your brass. Anything we can do to slow the cycle lessens the punishment from these rounds. If we shoot saami spec ammo are we going over pressure? Probably not, but recall my shooting session when it was 97 degrees and I popped some primers. At this point I've shot all the factory 260 stuff with little to no pressure signs. There is some primer flow, but all the loads seem to form the same shape, even the prime. LC federal m80 ball, Prime, Hornady, then the gorilla, all the 260 seem to have the same primer flow. Meaning they compare very closely. The 308 was there for my own curiosity. Gorilla or the Peterson stamped brass is the lowest pressure of the bunch, gathered from slower mv's. http://i.imgur.com/zVPDBaQ.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By MFST1:
From the JP Enterprises web site : Allows reliable AR functional with previously incompatible over-pressured loads such as 6.5mm or 6mm calibers Virtually eliminates primer flow and pierced primers Reduced firing pin mass improves lock time and ignition reliability with hard primers Features same quality construction and advantages of other JP EnhancedBolts™ Backwards compatible with standard .308 ejectors, extractors and gas rings Lifetime bolt warranty YMMV What ammo contains hard primers? Certain military ammo that we probably won't shoot.And what primers out there now are hard? If we are following through is lock time a real concern? Lock time is a concern if you want to save your brass. Anything we can do to slow the cycle lessens the punishment from these rounds. If we shoot saami spec ammo are we going over pressure? Probably not, but recall my shooting session when it was 97 degrees and I popped some primers. At this point I've shot all the factory 260 stuff with little to no pressure signs. There is some primer flow, but all the loads seem to form the same shape, even the prime. LC federal m80 ball, Prime, Hornady, then the gorilla, all the 260 seem to have the same primer flow. Meaning they compare very closely. The 308 was there for my own curiosity. Gorilla or the Peterson stamped brass is the lowest pressure of the bunch, gathered from slower mv's. http://i.imgur.com/zVPDBaQ.jpg 
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Posted: 11/12/2017 2:18:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LaRue_Tactical]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mettee:
Those that are trying the jp hp bolt.... What made you go that route? I'm really curious how the two really compare. The firing pin and hole is or is not smaller? And what else makes the jp an upgrade? Like I posted earlier, Chief Petty Officer Dad LaRue RIP told me when I was a kid that telling everything I knew would soon put me at a distinct disadvantage. 
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Posted: 11/12/2017 3:04:53 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Defender3:
Here's a picture of three different rounds, I shot the 260s and 6.5CMs with LaRue bolts. The Nosler was a range pickup from Quantico by where the vendors were shooting. Not sure if it was shot in a LaRue, but you can see the flow in all the rounds and clearly, the Nosler looks to have been fired with the same diameter firing pin hole. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6117_JPG-360352.jpg D3, what do you think of the comparison between the prime and the peterson/gorilla? Prime is hotter than the gorilla but the primer flow is almost exactly the same. Kinda makes me curious about what's actually happening when the bolt face sees the pressure from the round going off. Still makes me think that brass in the primer is the larger factor... |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 3:11:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mettee]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
There are things about my bolt we don't advertise. Like I posted earlier, Chief Petty Officer Dad LaRue RIP told me when I was a kid that telling everything I knew would soon put me at a distinct disadvantage. After working through some of what I know engineering and metallurgical wise it didn't make any sense to upgrade a bolt that had the same or better spec. I say better because there are certain things people don't know, and now we know they/we don't know
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Posted: 11/12/2017 3:29:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mettee:
Yep those look exactly like mine. D3, what do you think of the comparison between the prime and the peterson/gorilla? Prime is hotter than the gorilla but the primer flow is almost exactly the same. Kinda makes me curious about what's actually happening when the bolt face sees the pressure from the round going off. Still makes me think that brass in the primer is the larger factor... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
Here's a picture of three different rounds, I shot the 260s and 6.5CMs with LaRue bolts. The Nosler was a range pickup from Quantico by where the vendors were shooting. Not sure if it was shot in a LaRue, but you can see the flow in all the rounds and clearly, the Nosler looks to have been fired with the same diameter firing pin hole. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6117_JPG-360352.jpg D3, what do you think of the comparison between the prime and the peterson/gorilla? Prime is hotter than the gorilla but the primer flow is almost exactly the same. Kinda makes me curious about what's actually happening when the bolt face sees the pressure from the round going off. Still makes me think that brass in the primer is the larger factor... |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 4:09:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Freakinout:
Primer cup (material mostly), peak PSI, and dwell time would have more to do with primer flow than other factors |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 4:42:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Freakinout:
Primer cup (material mostly), peak PSI, and dwell time would have more to do with primer flow than other factors ?
I was trying to simplify it really, focusing on the bolt switch over need... Trying to show it wasn't necessary. I just asked questions instead of making statements. |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 4:50:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mettee]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
And the very accurate radius circumventing the bolt face's firing pin hole. I'll have to check out the bolt face now 
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Posted: 11/12/2017 5:03:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
And the very accurate radius circumventing the bolt face's firing pin hole. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Primer cup (material mostly), peak PSI, and dwell time would have more to do with primer flow than other factors
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Posted: 11/12/2017 5:04:13 PM EDT
[#42]
I did a lot of over thinking in this thread and all it got me was a larger ammo bill.
I pronounce all to be fine with the setups as is and we should focus on shooting.
As to the Gorilla, and as I said, it didn't do too well at 100, but it was pretty darn good at 600. I'm going to shoot it all up and reload that Peterson brass. Keep Calm and Shoot More! |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 5:05:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mettee:
Isn't that what I said ?
I was trying to simplify it really, focusing on the bolt switch over need... Trying to show it wasn't necessary. I just asked questions instead of making statements. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Primer cup (material mostly), peak PSI, and dwell time would have more to do with primer flow than other factors ?
I was trying to simplify it really, focusing on the bolt switch over need... Trying to show it wasn't necessary. I just asked questions instead of making statements. |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 5:13:09 PM EDT
[#44]
LaRue and the JP HP bolt side by side.
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Posted: 11/12/2017 5:14:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Defender3]
[#45]
I'd have to go back in the thread and look, but I think the Prime on top was shot with the JP bolt.
ETA - I've reloaded the cases and there's no loosening of the primer pockets. 
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Posted: 11/12/2017 9:19:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Defender3:
LaRue and the JP HP bolt side by side. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_4298-1_JPG-360726.jpg The jp bolt has a sharp edge on the pin hole. |
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Posted: 11/13/2017 1:37:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Suggestions on figuring out sight over bore measurement?
I have my 260 barrel in a PredatAR chasis with the Burris XTR II in LaRue 20MOA mount. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2017 1:53:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dHUTCH:
Suggestions on figuring out sight over bore measurement? I have my 260 barrel in a PredatAR chasis with the Burris XTR II in LaRue 20MOA mount. |
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Posted: 11/13/2017 2:11:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mettee]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dHUTCH:
Suggestions on figuring out sight over bore measurement? I have my 260 barrel in a PredatAR chasis with the Burris XTR II in LaRue 20MOA mount. If you want to be more exact lock the bolt back, insert a cleaning rod and measure from that to the middle of the scope. A laruler will work
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Posted: 11/13/2017 5:57:30 PM EDT
[#50]
Calipers it is!
Thanks guys, just wanted to make sure there wasn't some super secret accurate way of doing it. I've used calipers in the past and they seemed to do the job. |
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