BCM Lower does NOT accept Magpul Mags???

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - BCM Lower does NOT accept Magpul Mags??? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 4/2/2018 11:38:26 AM EDT

Heads up, I'm a huge BCM fanboy, I have several uppers, and lowers from them. In fact I exclusively buy bcm uppers at this point, because until now they produced what i consoder to be flawless products.

All that being said, I purchased a complete FDE lower from grabagun.com for about $400. I got it home grabbed a mag, went to insert it, and it would not seat. I tried again, and again, and again. I got a sick feeling in my stomach as $400 is a hefty price for a lower (that won't accept my 50 plus Magpul Gen M3 mags) but I thought it was worth it for the BCM brand name.

The first thing I did was call grabagun.com, the very friendly rep told me she would send me a return shipping label, and my $7.99 shipping cost would be refunded as well. I asked if I needed to send via my FFL, and she said no. I asked if there was anyway a replacement could be sent instead, but she said all other BCM lowers, with the exception of a pistol lower were out of stock. I was pretty bummed and asked if she could check if any other BCM lowers would soon become available.

She placed me on hold for several minutes, then came back and told me that no refund could be granted, as it is now in my name. And I should contact BCM for any warrantee work needed on the product. I asked about the return I was promised, and she said she was mistaken.

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:28:49 PM EDT

[#1]

So I called BCM, but it went straight to a prerecorded message to email them. So I emailed BCM, after telling me to shave material from my magpul mags to make them work with this oddball lower. Please see BCM's final email to me posted below separately.

I contacted grabagun.com 2 more times for my refund, both times I could not get manager when requested. The final rep accused me of "changing my story" which the only story is that I have a lower that I paid $400 for and can not use with my magpul mags. Finally a rep gave me an email [email protected], Aaron told me a refund would not be granted, and he went out of his way to tell me the first rep I spoke to said nothing about a refund, and that I was mistaken. Too busy to get on the phone to speak with me, yet he's listening in on conversations?

Overall, I'm stuck with it I suppose. I will be reporting grabagun.com to the BBB as their customer service is egregious. I bought an Arsenal SLR-107 FR from AtlanticFirearms.com a couple years ago that had a jacked up front sight (still within spec!) and they sent me a whole new rifle and paid for shipping for the others return. There's no reason for a beast of a dealer like grabagun to not accept a return in this case.

Either way, keep this in mind when looking to purchase a BCM lower. Next time I guess I'll bring a magpul mag with me to BEFORE I have it transferred to me.

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:33:40 PM EDT

[#2]

That will show them

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:36:08 PM EDT

[#3]

I think you should keencontacting bcm.

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:37:53 PM EDT

[#4]

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I think you should keencontacting bcm.

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Why?

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:38:04 PM EDT

[#5]

I've had 4 BCM lowers and never an issue with Gen 3 Pmags.
Ive heard of this before. Same with a lot of other manufactures. I'm kind of inclined to point the finger at Magpul on this one.

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:39:22 PM EDT

[#6]

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That will show them

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Thanks, I'm sure it will.

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:41:16 PM EDT

[#7]

My BCM works fine with all mags I have used.

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:42:24 PM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
I've had 4 BCM lowers and never an issue with Gen 3 Pmags.
Ive heard of this before. Same with a lot of other manufactures. I'm kind of inclined to point the finger at Magpul on this one.

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I have 3, the others are flawless. Honestly, if I knew this about the magpul Gen M3 I probably never would have bought so many. Simultaneously, zombie apocalypse comes, you want a lower that works with all mags

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:50:15 PM EDT

[#9]

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My BCM works fine with all mags I have used.

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I've always had great results with BCM, my other 2 BCM Lowers are great.

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:55:42 PM EDT

[#10]

Dispute with your credit card and send that bitch back to them

Posted: 3/22/2018 6:56:53 PM EDT

[#11]

Did you try other mags? My BCM does not like Lancer mags. FTF after a round or two. But I don't recall it had problem with gen3 pmag or USGI mags.

Posted: 3/22/2018 7:00:02 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Dispute with your credit card and send that bitch back to them

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Lol, can I do that?

Posted: 3/22/2018 7:00:46 PM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:
Did you try other mags? My BCM does not like Lancer mags. FTF after a round or two. But I don't recall it had problem with gen3 pmag or USGI mags.

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Unfortunately, all I have is magpul pmags...

Posted: 3/22/2018 7:34:57 PM EDT

[#14]

I have two BCM lowers and one of them had a problem with some Gen 1 pmags, but all the newer ones work just fine.

Posted: 3/22/2018 7:46:58 PM EDT

[#15]

What did BCM say?

Posted: 3/22/2018 8:13:41 PM EDT

[#16]

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Lol, can I do that?

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Quoted:
Dispute with your credit card and send that bitch back to them

Lol, can I do that?

Maybe not if you have Citibank.

Where is BCM's final email?

Posted: 3/22/2018 8:56:55 PM EDT

[#17]

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That will show them

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Posted: 3/22/2018 9:04:26 PM EDT

[#18]

The over insertion tab on the M3 mags interferes with the BCM magwell. You can file the mags, file the receiver, or just use different magazines.

Posted: 3/22/2018 9:09:30 PM EDT

[#19]

This is, and has been a known issue with BCM lowers and GenM3s.

BCM says Pmags aren't 'mil-spec' and they don't consider it a problem.

I had a BCM lower a few years ago that wouldn't accept M3s so I filed the trigger guard/magwell junction so it would work.

Posted: 3/22/2018 9:21:05 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is, and has been a known issue with BCM lowers and GenM3s.

BCM says Pmags aren't 'mil-spec' and they don't consider it a problem.

I had a BCM lower a few years ago that wouldn't accept M3s so I filed the trigger guard/magwell junction so it would work.

View Quote

I just filed mine down, screw it, it's done. Now I'll have to have it done up in magpul FDE. Honestly BCM needs to get with it and make sure their lowers are compatible with one of the biggest magazine manufacturers in the country.

Posted: 3/22/2018 9:22:13 PM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:
What did BCM say?

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Sorry, it's over 2k characters, and ar15.com won't let me post it. I'll try posting in 2 parts.

Posted: 3/22/2018 9:24:28 PM EDT

[#22]

Adam,

The M3 version of the PMag adds an “over insertion tab” on the rear spine of the magazine. Unfortunately, it interfaces with an area of the lower that can vary substantially during the manufacturing of a milspec lower receiver group.

For this section of the weapon you have 2 sets of tolerances; forging tolerances and machining tolerances. When you add them up the Mil-Std TDP finished product has a range. For over 5 decades, the dimensions controlling the lower end of the magwell have been generous with tolerances. Allowing as much as +-.060” of tolerance in the M16, and even more within the M4 requirements, with the majority of the tolerances in the forging. That means lowers can vary by 1/8” in this area!

BCM lower receivers are built within the semi auto versions of those prints. Any AR15 lower built to the correct print could still have this issue with the over insertion tab.

Posted: 3/22/2018 9:25:35 PM EDT

[#23]

It is not fully backwards compatible. Based on our analysis, the location of the tab is based on a lower built to the center of the tolerance range, which leaves the possibility of up to 1/16” of interference in some cases. We have gone over the documents many times to ensure this is not an oversight on our part. If it was, we would scramble to make it right. We have not found this to be the case though. Due to the allowable tolerances in the mil-spec prints, the tab will work with some lowers, and not in others. This is not specific to BCM and similar situations will arise from many other makers whose tolerances may even exceed the TDP allowances.

The PMag is obviously an excellent design, but this tab has the possibility to cause issues with any milspec lower. As a result it is possible even within the same manufacturer to have it fit some and not on others. If you want an inventory or load out of fully cross compatible mags we recommend you file off a bit of that tab, because while it may fit in the couple of your lowers, and then it may not fit in the next couple of your buddies AR.

Bravo Company USA, Inc

www.BravoCompanyUSA.com

www.BravoCompanyMFG.com

American Gunfighter

Posted: 3/22/2018 9:36:32 PM EDT

[#24]

I had this issue with a PSA lower and gen 3 Pmags. As others have said it’s the stupid over insertion tab that causes the problem.

Posted: 3/22/2018 9:59:29 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is, and has been a known issue with BCM lowers and GenM3s.

BCM says Pmags aren't 'mil-spec' and they don't consider it a problem.

I had a BCM lower a few years ago that wouldn't accept M3s so I filed the trigger guard/magwell junction so it would work.

View Quote

Well the PMAG gen3 is now being issued so i'd consider them very "mil spec" so they can go ahead and scratch that excuse off their list. BCM has fallen off of my list of go to brands. I have gotten better performance out of my Colts and LMTs so no real need to deal with BCMs increasingly shitty attitude toward customers. LMT actually is a military contractor (US and around the world) and they will answer the phone and take the time to talk to their customers. If I were the OP i'd be pissed off. I can't believe they "mil spec'd" you. If I were you, I'd just tell BCM to kiss my ass, run gen2 pmags in that lower, and consider it lesson learned. Other than the mag issue, i'm sure the lower will work fine. If your lower can't run M3s, it is your lower, not the mag. Anyone here have a Colt or LMT that won't accept M3s?..... The DoD gave a contract to magpul for a magazine that may or may not work in their lowers?... Doubtful

Posted: 3/23/2018 12:57:34 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is, and has been a known issue with BCM lowers and GenM3s.

BCM says Pmags aren't 'mil-spec' and they don't consider it a problem.

I had a BCM lower a few years ago that wouldn't accept M3s so I filed the trigger guard/magwell junction so it would work.

View Quote

lol

Wasn't the M3 just adopted by the USMC?

Posted: 3/23/2018 1:01:19 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

Well the PMAG gen3 is now being issued so i'd consider them very "mil spec" so they can go ahead and scratch that excuse off their list. BCM has fallen off of my list of go to brands. I have gotten better performance out of my Colts and LMTs so no real need to deal with BCMs increasingly shitty attitude toward customers. LMT actually is a military contractor (US and around the world) and they will answer the phone and take the time to talk to their customers. If I were the OP i'd be pissed off. I can't believe they "mil spec'd" you. If I were you, I'd just tell BCM to kiss my ass, run gen2 pmags in that lower, and consider it lesson learned. Other than the mag issue, i'm sure the lower will work fine. If your lower can't run M3s, it is your lower, not the mag. Anyone here have a Colt or LMT that won't accept M3s?..... The DoD gave a contract to magpul for a magazine that may or may not work in their lowers?... Doubtful

View Quote

This. BCM gave me shit a while back for an issue that I had and it seems they're starting to take that approach with a lot of their customers lately.

As you said, I highly doubt .mil is adopting Gen 3 PMags if they wouldn't work in roughly half of their lowers in inventory. BCM is full of shit.

Posted: 3/23/2018 1:10:41 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I had this issue with a PSA lower and gen 3 Pmags. As others have said it’s the stupid over insertion tab that causes the problem.

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Same, I shaved it off of the few I do own and won't buy any more.

Posted: 3/23/2018 1:12:10 AM EDT

[#29]

Serious trigger pullers don't use M3 PMAGS.

Posted: 3/23/2018 1:15:38 AM EDT

[#30]

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Quoted:
Serious trigger pullers don't use M3 PMAGS.

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You have a link to that?

I've seen it referenced more than once, but never saw the source.

Posted: 3/23/2018 3:44:09 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

Well the PMAG gen3 is now being issued so i'd consider them very "mil spec" so they can go ahead and scratch that excuse off their list. BCM has fallen off of my list of go to brands. I have gotten better performance out of my Colts and LMTs so no real need to deal with BCMs increasingly shitty attitude toward customers. LMT actually is a military contractor (US and around the world) and they will answer the phone and take the time to talk to their customers. If I were the OP i'd be pissed off. I can't believe they "mil spec'd" you. If I were you, I'd just tell BCM to kiss my ass, run gen2 pmags in that lower, and consider it lesson learned. Other than the mag issue, i'm sure the lower will work fine. If your lower can't run M3s, it is your lower, not the mag. Anyone here have a Colt or LMT that won't accept M3s?..... The DoD gave a contract to magpul for a magazine that may or may not work in their lowers?... Doubtful

View Quote

I honestly just got some Spikes stripped lowers, and they're miles ahead of BCM by way of fit and finish, and they all except Magpul M3 mags. I can post pics of the quality difference, it's real.

Posted: 3/23/2018 3:50:01 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Serious trigger pullers don't use M3 PMAGS.

View Quote

As hilarious (I'm hoping intentionally) as this statement is, I can assure you I am NOT a serious "trigger puller". Although I do rely on my firearms to aid in the protection of my wife and two boys. I wish I would have known magpul mags are not "tacticool" when I started buying them 7 years ago.

Posted: 3/23/2018 3:51:36 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

This. BCM gave me shit a while back for an issue that I had and it seems they're starting to take that approach with a lot of their customers lately.

As you said, I highly doubt .mil is adopting Gen 3 PMags if they wouldn't work in roughly half of their lowers in inventory. BCM is full of shit.

View Quote

This is very sad, as I stated I'm a huge BCM fanboy. It's good to know a company has your back.

Posted: 3/23/2018 4:25:53 AM EDT

[#34]

Should have got a poverty pony

Posted: 3/23/2018 4:43:24 AM EDT

[#35]

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Should have got a poverty pony

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Hahaha that's exactly what my buddy told me! Even if it's jacked up, only out $39 lol

Posted: 3/23/2018 4:47:40 AM EDT

[#36]

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Quoted:

Hahaha that's exactly what my buddy told me! Even if it's jacked up, only out $39 lol

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I've built dozens with zero issues

Posted: 3/23/2018 9:19:56 AM EDT

[#37]

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Quoted:

I've built dozens with zero issues

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I've built on better than 10, zero issues.

The rollmarks do not impress the crowds though.

Posted: 3/23/2018 9:40:12 AM EDT

[#38]

This isn't really a new issue. There are a couple of threads on TOS about this, going as far back as 2015, with BCM's involvement in the threads.

- BCM claims ambiguity in the mil-spec tolerance of that particular area of the lower. They also claim M3 Pmags are not mil-spec (lol wtf it's 2018) enough.

- Magpul claims to make their M3 Pmag in the middle of that ambiguous tolerance.

Posted: 3/23/2018 10:12:33 AM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is very sad, as I stated I'm a huge BCM fanboy. It's good to know a company has your back.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

This. BCM gave me shit a while back for an issue that I had and it seems they're starting to take that approach with a lot of their customers lately.

As you said, I highly doubt .mil is adopting Gen 3 PMags if they wouldn't work in roughly half of their lowers in inventory. BCM is full of shit.

This is very sad, as I stated I'm a huge BCM fanboy. It's good to know a company has your back.

In all honesty, this the natural result of being such a fanboy. No company is perfect. No product is magic.

Posted: 3/23/2018 10:36:24 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
No company is perfect. No product is magic.

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This right here. ^^^

Posted: 3/23/2018 10:37:47 AM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is, and has been a known issue with BCM lowers and GenM3s.

BCM says Pmags aren't 'mil-spec' and they don't consider it a problem.

I had a BCM lower a few years ago that wouldn't accept M3s so I filed the trigger guard/magwell junction so it would work.

View Quote

disregard my previous comment. I didnt know they said that.

Posted: 3/23/2018 10:44:10 AM EDT

[#42]

I stripped the Lower, sanded the area inhibiting the seating of mags, and I'm having the lower cerakoted. That will be an additional $75 cost on the Lower, just to make it compatible with magazines currently utilized by our military.

I know it makes no difference, but I'm not going to BCM anymore for parts, uppers, or lowers. Before all this, I was a fanboy of everything BCM, I have 6 total firearms branded with their logo. I've also sent family members and friends to their site for what I considered to be the best. But the way this was handled didn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

If Larry Vickers was on YouTube and tried to put a magpul pmag in a BCM rifle and it dropped right on out, I doubt they would be sending him the same e-mails they sent me. I bet my bottom dollar the Lower would be made to accept any and every AR-15 magazine on the market.

Posted: 3/23/2018 11:37:24 AM EDT

[#43]

Hmm, I have two bravo lowers. I’ll check the fitment of m3 mags tonight for posterity. Sorry to hear about your issue OP. I’ve had good luck with BCM in the past, ordered a blem stripped upper last week which they shipped out same day.

Posted: 3/23/2018 12:26:15 PM EDT

[#44]

I'd have sold it and bought another...brand.

Posted: 3/23/2018 1:21:47 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
Hmm, I have two bravo lowers. I’ll check the fitment of m3 mags tonight for posterity. Sorry to hear about your issue OP. I’ve had good luck with BCM in the past, ordered a blem stripped upper last week which they shipped out same day.

View Quote

I have 3 of their lowers, only one does not take magpul Gen m3 pmags.

Posted: 3/23/2018 1:22:43 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'd have sold it and bought another...brand.

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Haha

Posted: 3/23/2018 2:50:43 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have 3 of their lowers, only one does not take magpul Gen m3 pmags.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hmm, I have two bravo lowers. I’ll check the fitment of m3 mags tonight for posterity. Sorry to hear about your issue OP. I’ve had good luck with BCM in the past, ordered a blem stripped upper last week which they shipped out same day.

I have 3 of their lowers, only one does not take magpul Gen m3 pmags.

I’m still going to check out of curiosity, you brought up a valid issue.

Posted: 3/23/2018 2:58:52 PM EDT

[#48]

Wow, BCM basically said some of our shit is fucked and we don't care fuck you..
Awesome! BCM is now on my FUCK no list!

Why would they not just say sent it and we will make it right? Pompous assholes!

Posted: 3/23/2018 3:22:14 PM EDT

[#49]

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I’m still going to check out of curiosity, you brought up a valid issue.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Hmm, I have two bravo lowers. I’ll check the fitment of m3 mags tonight for posterity. Sorry to hear about your issue OP. I’ve had good luck with BCM in the past, ordered a blem stripped upper last week which they shipped out same day.

I have 3 of their lowers, only one does not take magpul Gen m3 pmags.

I’m still going to check out of curiosity, you brought up a valid issue.

I don't blame you, like I said in an earlier post, zombie apocalypse comes, you want all mags to work in your gun...

Posted: 3/23/2018 3:24:58 PM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:
Wow, BCM basically said some of our shit is fucked and we don't care fuck you..
Awesome! BCM is now on my FUCK no list!

Why would they not just say sent it and we will make it right? Pompous assholes!

View Quote

As I said, I'm disappointed, and they lost a very loyal customer. I'm not asking for the world, just a $400 lower that works with a very popular magazine brand.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - BCM Lower does NOT accept Magpul Mags??? (Page 1 of 2)

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