I'm working on a smaller, high-mobility sustainment pack...keeping it small and light.  It's meant to just get me out of an emergency area as fast as possible, potentially deal with some adverse elements, augment my EDC and my clothing layers, and allow me to quickly travel on foot for 24-36 hours and/or 10-20 miles.  This isn't my "get home bag" I keep in the truck, it's something I can have on me when away from the truck.  

I'm struggling to keep it under 12 pounds (it's currently 14lbs 8oz); with NO water, and I would like to get that base weight to 10 pounds if possible.  I will have water bottles and water added, but for building, I’m going without water as that is a weight that fluctuates. I can shave some more items, but my intended use is when we travel and yes, visits to some metropolitan areas where we may be a good distance from the hotel, truck, family/friend’s house, etc.  While my pack choice is currently a 25 liter Mystery Ranch Coulee 25 pack, it has enough room to stuff layers in (I won't be running with a puffy on!).  




While shelter is normally my #1 priority in the outdoors, my clothing provides that first line, but water is a bigger priority.  Most metro areas have little "natural water" available.  A purifier is my top choice, plus a hollow-fiber filter, as is to be able to quickly carry a couple additional bottles of water. I'm going with the smaller Grayl as it nests well with the pre-filter bag (ala Millbank bag), and a 600ml nesting cup.  The square profile of the Sawyer S3 purifier is a little odd, but is likely better suited to urban/suburban environments (handles heavy metals very well).  I've gone back and forth and decided on a simple Bee Free filter with collapsible 1L bottle as both backup and additional carrying capacity.  So, I carry a purifier and a more typical filter/bottle combo and can add a couple additional bottles of water I typically keep in my truck or hotel when I travel.






Will update contents list later...but for visual:




Simple foods and stuff I normally wouldn't snack on; strictly for emergency use.  Shelter is simple; a 5x8 sil-nylon poncho/tarp (with suspension cordage and stakes if needed) and a SOL bivvy.  As seen above the only additional "clothing" is a pair of socks, hat/gloves, and a Patagonia wind shirt.




Top lid on the pack has a map of wherever we are going, compass, headlamp, hat, 100mph tape, and clear goggles.



Clothing is always layered.  Base shirt, long-sleeve button shirt and/or pullover mid-layer; outer soft or hard shell and solid trekking shoes with wool socks.  Again, my EDC various a little, but usually is something like this and if I'm using my E&E belt, I have an additional layer of E&E type tools:



Again, it's easy to point out what needs to be added, but what would you recommend gets removed?  Weight is a factor, I don't want to look like I'm backpacking, just carrying a small day pack with clothing layers and water.  I want to be able to run, jump, climb, crawl, fight, roll, scramble, etc. with the pack on.  Light (goal of 12 pounds, with no water) and a narrow profile.

The MR Coulee does come with a waist belt, but it interferes with my CCW and other line-one gear, another reason I want to keep the weight low.

I may drop the Possum insulated seat pad and shemagh (swap for a much smaller, lighter silk scarf?).  I also am considering adding a half-face smoke/gas mask; smaller than a my full face, goggles can help with vision, but it's really the typical smoke and dust that makes navigation difficult in urban areas after a disaster (fire, earthquake, terrorist attack, etc.).

I need to downsize my booboo FAK.

Fire away!

Addendum…

Current contents:

First, my EDC recap.  For general city-bumming…

CCW, extra mag
Folding pocket knife
Pen
Chapstick
Light (for this, an 18650 light)
*often a multitool
*sometimes a small defensive knife

Top lid of the pack:
Map of the city or county we’re visiting
Headlamp (currently an 18650 headlamp)
Compass
Clear goggles
Tape
Merino watch cap
*need to add a second Bic lighter

Outer pockets:
Purifier (either the Grayl or Sawyer S3 w/ filter attachment)
Collapsible water bottle with Bee Free filter
Two water additional water bottles

The Grayl is nested with a fitted “pre-filter” bag (ala Millbank bag) and further nested with a titanium 600ml mug.

Main bag:
Gloves (simple Camelbak or Mechanix variety)
Tuff Possum multiuse seat pad (has orange back for signaling)
A folding Fozzil’s bowl fits in with the seat pad (good for collecting water)
Shemagh
Fixed blade (currently TOPS CUT 4.0)
5x8 Sil-Nylon poncho/tarp (with cord and stakes if needed?)
SOL Bivvy (may cut?)
Waterproof bag with TP, Patagonia wind shirt, extra socks, and glove-liners
FAK, CAT/blow-out kit (need to reduce the size of the boo-boo kit)
Small binoculars?
Small pry-bar?
Small folding Silky saw?
Fire steel (Strikeforce with tinder; may go with something smaller?)
Tinder with Bic and a couple bees wax tealight candles (for Palmer Furnace setup)
Extra 18650 battery (matches both EDC and headlamp)
Two extra magazines (12rd P365XL)
Bankline roll (100+feet) with 550 cord (about 20 feet)
Battery bank charger with AC charger, USB cords, & Olight universal USB battery charger)
Titanium 600ml mug lid
Small AM/FM/WX/Shortwave receiver with ear buds

Again, trying to keep weight low (excluding water weight as that will fluctuate) to maintain a higher degree of mobility and a smaller profile to avoid looking like I’m backpacking.

Some considerations:
Adding a silcock key
Swap the larger, bulkier Shemagh for a silk (or smaller cotton) bandana
Swap TP with a small travel pack of wet wipes
Drop the insulated seat pad?
Swap the EDC and headlamp using 18650’s with AA/14500 EDC/headlamp
Smaller fire steel
Extra Bic
Drop the folding saw and prybar?
Drop the SOL Bivvy
Minimize my boo-boo kit

Better options for the water system?
Currently it’s the Grayl purifier with pre-filter cover and nested titanium mug
Secondary (needed?) is a collapsible 1LT bottle with Bee Free filter

The Sawyer S3 is the more capable purifier as it handle heavy metal contaminants (reportedly) better than the Grayl, but the square (sponge inside) shape makes nesting impossible.  Another alternative is just going with a metal water bottle (Klean Kanteen) as it would be less awkward to use regularly…I’m just trying to find the most capable water system for my requirements…

This is becoming an exercise in weight management.  This is a short term (less than 72-hour) emergency/sustainment kit with emphasis on maintaining a high degree of mobility.  This is a mission-specific kit.  I have a “get-home-bag” in the truck, but we often will take an Uber when traveling in/around metro areas.  This is one of those challenges that if the bag is too bulky or heavy, it won’t be carried. Minimal, minimal, minimal.  This bag is not meant to solve every problem, or potential contingency, emergency, or crisis…just the bare bones to get off the “X”, and away from ground zero of a bad situation as fast as possible and quickly E&E back to the hotel, truck, or if need be out of the metro area on foot.

ROCK6

Rock, first off we are supposed to ask you for wisdom not the other way around so WTF?

So if we are truly trying to get down to 10 lbs the first thing I would do when I used to be cool and do alpine stuff is trim all the straps on the pack.  Cutsie pull tabs, gone. Clips? Cut off, bungee routed straight to the anchor point (if bungee needed) keep one side so you can open I guess? From your own comments, waistbelt? Gone (12 lbs probably won’t be useful other than for keeping core temp up anyway). And on 12 lbs, chest strap? Gone.

Next, stuff sacks and bags.  Gone. Wrap the shelter/components on itself and use one of its guylines to secure.  FAK, ziplock bag.

Back on shelter, crappy tent pegs? Probably gone or reduced to two-three rather than 6. Or if you can ditch it all together.

I would drill holes on each side of your cup so I could hang it with wire but that’s shooter’s preference.

TQ…we field expediented those things forever.  Worth it to carry one or just be ready and know what else you have to make one?

Collapsible bowl when you have a cup? Gone.

Earbuds for the radio, questionable.

Bankline spool, gone. Wrap it on something else or yarn ball it.

Replace big compass with a smaller compass.

Headlamp top strap, gone.

I would not count map weight, have them all and when you know where you’re having to execute then ditch the ones you don’t need.  

I count four mags.  Maybe leave one and just carry extra rounds?

Four lights or five? Glad I’m not the only one afraid of the dark.

Seat pad…thought we we’re trying to be light so we could move really fast? Gone.

Face mask has a few potential benefits now days…might be more useful to have a gaiter type face mask than a stinky shemagh?

Yes, your two boo boo kits are a huge target.

Water filter pre filter? Use the shemagh or face mask instead?

Fixed blade really need it’s scales?

I like a good short screwdriver over tiny crowbar. Shooter’s preference.

Saw, meh.

Binoculars, depends on where you are.

Strike force I would downsize, even just a similar rod without all the plastic case would save weight and space.

Seems to me someone makes a radio/power bank combo. Might be something to consider, I’ll try to remember where I saw that.

Extra water bottle question, I go through a lot of water so I would. However, you have two bottles and I would assume more close at hand.  Those would probably stay and I wouldn’t add a bladder.  You can keep a “dirty” bottle to filter at your convenience etc. just more options with a bunch of disposable bottles.

It's a slightly new concept for me, so I'm leveraging the ARFCOM-Survival Borg to give me some feedback and crticism.

I have been thinking about this since our visit to Jacksonville, FL, over a long weekend. We were doing some sightseeing and we used an Uber. We were clear across town. I did have a few essentials and a good map, but if the SHTF, it would have been a journey getting back to the hotel and truck. That said, I also don't want to lug a 30 pound pack around.

This smaller "sustainment" pack is for short duration emergencies. Balanced with weight and bulk to not hinder a higher degree of mobility. While I do have access to an obstacle course, that's kind of my mindset with a small pack...could i wear it while jogging, climbing through a window, climbing a ladder or wall, crawl through a culvert, fight with it on?

Much like backpacking, counting ounces matters and keeping weight down is important for me to maintain mobility. I'm just leveraging the "hive" here as there's a lot of other experience, perspectives, and opinions I respect and value...and extra set (or twenty sets) of eyes never hurts.

I'll go through your feedback, which I appreciate.  The one that jumps out is the insulated seat pad.  While not essential, if you have to huddle under a poncho to weight out a storm or even squat for a few hours using a tealight candle to warm up, it's a good addition (ala Palmer Furnace).  So, while I've done that in training, is it something I would use or need...if it's a short duration emergency, squatting may be counter to making distance and using mobility? Hell, if my wife is shopping, it could make my bum comfortable waiting outside on a stone bench profiling perps

Still, it's some of those thoughts that I need to revisit and feedback helps.  You see my list of stuff I'll likely drop, I just need to do a little more assessment with whatever remains...

ROCK6

This.

One item: If your battery-operated items are using alkalines or NiCads, replace them with lithium batteries. They are noticeably lighter, don't leak, and work better at colder temps.

I'm reluctant to make suggestions as you're one of the more experienced people here and are already well aware of just about any of the possibilities, but it has utility for sparking a discussion.  Briefly touching on the usual caveats, there are alternative ways to shed weight (500 cal less for 2 weeks is your two pounds difference, lighter shoes have a disproportionate benefit, etc) but given your experience you've likely already gotten all of this dialed in, so moving on to the gear list...

Of course even in predominantly urban areas the basics still applies (10C's or whatever guidelines someone ascribes to), along with some unique items for that environment, but it's ostensibly easier to find shelter.  Your layered approach is spot on IMO, and of course you already have a more comprehensive get home bag so I won't try and turn this into that. You're reaching a point where there's not a whole lot you can do to go lighter without being ruthless about redundancies and getting into cutting down toothbrush territory, but if mobility is what we're optimizing for there are a few things you can consider.  Some of the alternate items I'll suggest may not warrant the expenditure just to shave a few ounces since you already possess items that serve the same purpose.


___________________


First thing is your water situation.  Doing your EDC+ layered approach, technically all you really need is some water purification tablets and probably an EDC container of some sort. You could throw an evernew / platypus folding bottle and some chlorine dioxide based water purification tablets in a pocket and you're good to go as far as most likely biological threats are concerned.   Anything beyond that is technically convenience, but nobody wants to wait up to 4 hours for cryptosporidium when it can be addressed in seconds with a filter.

I understand the point about the systems you've outlined being complementary (one handling viruses, the other handling heavy metals better) but this is ostensibly so short term that I wouldn't worry as much about heavy metals in the time it takes to get across / leave the city.  The Grayl and Be Free that you settled on are probably the two fastest purification systems to use while on the go, but I would pick one and ditch the other.

Assuming you'll be adding one or two regular water bottles as mentioned, it's not clear which is the better system to keep.  The Grayl handles viruses which can be a concern particularly if we're discussing urban environments post disaster, even in the west, but it relies on moving seals which I am reluctant to trust, and doesn't hold a lot of water on its own despite taking up a water bottle spot.  The Be Free is an incomplete solution on its own (would require supplementing with chemical treatment to address viruses, which means about a 15 minute extra wait to drink) but takes up little space inside the bag and can be used in conjunction with a 1-2L CNOC bladder (they have a version with the mouth designed specifically for the Be Free's larger threads) which also rolls up out of the way, or can be attached to the outside of your bag to expand capacity.  On the other hand, I'd want something that can be used to boil water in on principle, and your Grayl works well with your nesting cup.  On the other other hand, if you don't have time to dwell at a water source (say a commercial spigot on the side of a building), filling a 2L CNOC bladder and leaving to later filter into your regular water bottles you've brought along is easier and faster than filling and pumping the grail four times on site.  A CNOC bladder could double as an improvised flotation device if you're having to swim across a river often near urban areas, or as a pillow if you're having to settle in someplace for the night. It's not obvious which one is the better route to go, just depends on what you'd prefer.

As an aside, if you're downwind from Waynesboro or Baxley, Seychelle makes one of the only filters I know of that's supposed to be capable of handling radioactive material in the water, and you might consider IoSAT Potassium Iodide somewhere in your gear or even a dosimeter, but there's only so much anyone can do about that sort of thing without support, so crossing your fingers is the route most will take based on the unlikelihood of occurrence.
__

As far as the other low hanging fruit, I would maybe have a pry bar or demo tool available in your vehicle, wouldn't necessarily bring it in this bag.  You can bring it if you think you'll need it and ditch it otherwise.  For most of these sort of things it's trivial to find something to improvise with in an urban area, and if it's something small your multi-tool can handle it.  That would save about 6.6 oz.  

Binoculars could be replaced with a monocular to save a few 2-4 ounces, or save all the ounces and just use the ultra zoom camera feature if you have a Samsung S10/S21 or similar.

The multitool, as heavy as they are, makes sense particularly in urban areas. Good wire cutters will let you breach fences, and of course you'll be surrounded by vehicles, nuts bolts and screws.

I'm reluctant to say it, but this is one of the rare situations I'd consider not having a fixed blade in the bag and just keep the EDC folder and E&E blade, because on principle the EDC knife (even a folder) should be robust enough to handle any of the outdoor tasks you'd reasonably ask of a knife, including batoning in a pinch, just in case you find yourself out there with only your EDC for some reason. That would save you ~6.4 ounces and with the above changes we're already near a pound.  For all of my outdoor / bug out related setups I do include a Mora robust / Silky combination, but for my regular 72 hour travel / weekender bag I do not for that reason. You always have your get home bag in the car if you'd prefer to kit-up before you go.  Of course if the TOPS knife serves a specific purpose (ie, like a Shivworks knife for offhand defensive use)  then disregard.  This is just personal preference, a knife is considered critical enough to follow PACE otherwise IMO.

You'd think I'd say ditch the silky saw given the above, but I'd probably throw it in there anyway to complement your EDC knife instead of the usual role of complementing a fixed blade. The multi-tool saw isn't good enough to remove a branch blocking a road if you're ubering somewhere following a storm, and while you could have a flexible saw and fashion a bucksaw / bowsaw out of it I'm thinking time is more important.  Further, transitioning from urban to rural, it's part of your basics.

The poncho / tarp is spot on I think (alternatively, a rain jacket/windbreaker and 2P SOL tarp if range of motion is priority over likelihood of needing a palmer furnace in a predominantly urban environment). Shelter is one of the few things you don't have to worry about as much in an urban area, but it's still prudent to have something, so a multi-purpose item like this makes sense, To expand upon this, you could also opt for a wilderness innovations ultralight PSS, it's a silnylon poncho tarp along similar lines, but it's strengthened at the seams so it can be used as a hammock with some light whoopie slings. Then you have a convenient way to hang out at parks etc for non-emergency situations (as an aside, it also apparently fits in the front pocket of a Mother canteen carrier with great effort per someone on another forum)

The headlamp and flashlight using the same batteries is something I also prefer, and 18650 are also my favored batteries. If we're being ruthless you could opt to use the EDC light as a headlamp as well, though a light is another one of those things that's important enough that redundancy is warranted IMO, but I can't see going beyond two. I don't know what the weight of the headlamp is, but a Nitecore Nu25 headlamp is <1 oz, bright enough to walk around safely in addition to the regular up close hands free tasks, and you can still recharge off your battery bank. If your headlamp is more than double that weight I'd consider swapping and leave battery commonality with the more robust GHB.

Definitely ditch the ferro rod for this task and purpose IMO, it's bulky and your two lighters (one in a water resistant bag) should be more than sufficient. If you want an emergency option, there's always the firefly ferros designed for swiss army knife tweezer slots that would probably fit in your E&E belt easily enough, or behind a velcro patch, or in a seam of your clothes, etc. but these are not easy to use one handed without getting creative.  For that reason, I generally carry a teeny spark wheel and tinder quik in the cache belt as a backup to my mini bic in my EDC but I'm not sure if you have the space available.

Without seeing what's inside your first aid kit I can't really comment on that aspect.

Would probably replace peanut butter tube with some MRE peanut butter (smaller than the tube, but still larger than the individual packets you typically find at the store). Snacks are good and all you really need for this

For urban focus, consider a pair of lightweight walkie talkies if you're with family, inreach mini (if alone and contacting someone outside the area), or similar.  In the wake of an emergency, cell towers might be down or so saturated calls may struggle to get through. Additionally, if the situation is unrest, any major urban areas are almost certainly going to have stingrays or similar data collection assets, which can mark you as a subject of interest for later investigations just by your presence (pinged and geofenced). A faraday bag for phones is light and worth investing in.  A Resqme tool on a zipper or keychain will allow you to get in or out through vehicle windows quickly, they can be annoyingly stubborn if using regular impact tools.  Alternatively Oscar Delta has a variety of more discreet items that can be used as a window breaker http://www.oscardelta.co.uk/

Paper maps are good, I'm pretty sure you already do this but just to cover the bases I'd also keep backups on your phone (OsmAnd Maps is one useful utility that does complete offline navigation as well). There used to be a website that would custom print maps onto silk handkerchiefs as a throwback to the old silk E&E maps, but I don't know if they're still around. You can go smaller on the compass, but we're talking trivial amounts of weight at this point so frankly I wouldn't bother.  Definitely ditch the toilet paper IMO and opt for a small pocket pack of tissue and travel wet wipes.

The emergency bivy is up to you. I generally wouldn't sleep inside them if I can help it, but they're small enough vacuum sealed to slip in a pocket and they make useful extra long trash bags to stuff insulation in and sleep on in an outdoor setting. If we're talking urban, concrete jungle, airport delays, that sort of thing I would bring some sort of sleeping pad, even if it's minimal like a Klymit X-Frame or X-Lite.  These aren't that comfortable but they're better than nothing.  Better still would be finding a car to sleep in (cushy seats!) or emergency hotel money if the situation allows. I tend to think of the escape bivy as the minimum sort of bag to sleep in as it breathes a little at least, but it's not adequately water resistant out of the box. On mine, I sno-sealed the bottom and seam-sealed the seams, and left the top alone so it can breathe.  The sitting pad is fine if you find it useful and is already multi purpose.

I don't feel one way or the other about the shemagh, maybe swap for a buff.  Absolutely have P/N95-99 level of protection available in an urban environment (thinking less pandemic, more Post 9/11 or Nashville Christmas bombing. The dust and nasties in the air are absurd).  You can find some N95 masks that fold flat and are individually wrapped. Goggles that seal are good, and remember on this topic that both sides during unrest love shooting fireworks, pepper spray and cheap green lasers at each other.

(For those who aren't aware, the inexpensive green lasers bought from China often have spurious emissions in the IR spectrum and are absolutely not eye safe even if they have the generic sticker saying they are. Beware, these can cause permanent damage and blindness. Most of the idiots using them during civil unrest events aren't aware of this and cry foul at the idea that it warrants escalation of force.





While they aren't that heavy, the shortwave might be better suited for a dedicated get home bag where weight is a little more flexible. For this scenario, if you're running an android phone, you can replace it with a software defined radio dongle, much smaller and lighter if the frequency range is appropriate for your applications. There are also adapters to cover HAM frequencies.





I dunno if it saved you weight or made it worse, but I hope it gave some ideas!

@Rock6 I always look forward to and appreciate your posts about gear and the outdoors.  Here are my thoughts on your topic.

Keep the shemegah.  They are big enough to make a sling in case you suffer an arm/shoulder injury.  A silk hanky is not.  The shemegah is a multi use item.  The things that I carry in my pack/bag, use for camping trips, I am constantly asking myself if they serve more than 1 purpose?

Remember the blotters our parents and grandparents use to open jars and bottles?  Is it possible to find/buy a larger aize chunk of it for seatpad useage?  It won't give you a cushion.  But it is waterproof and lightweight.

A travel pack of wet wipes is well worth it.

As far as knives go, I would carry my normal CCW folder, a ESEE 4, a multitool.  My preference being a Leatherman Wave.

If you are looking at being up for 24 hours, on the move and headed home, ditch the bivy, tarp, tent stakes.  If it's going to be a multi day journey, then keep them.

Dump the folding saw.  A good multitool usually has a saw blade on it.  Ditch the prybar unless you think you will need to be breakng into things.  If so, get a Superbar.  Better leverage and not much more weight.

I didn't see it on your list.  I am assuming you will have a good pair of sunglasses with you?

ZERO alkaline batteries.  Everything is either Lithium, NiMH/Eneloop, or Lithium-Ion rechargeable.  I do agree, for winter, I often switch out my Eneloops for regular lithium if stored or used in colder temps.  Good reminder for all.



@Burncycle

A lot to unpackage here...and some excellent feedback and recommendations.  This helps a lot.  I'm still guilty of packing "what if" shit, and while you can always use experience and training as guides, they also become outdated and need to be relied on as just helpful information and not for hard-fast rules all the time.  

I will be working with the water systems I have (I do like that CNOC BeeFree bottle and have the smaller thread versions). Not so much for boiling, but I still like the simple Klean Kanteen bottle which would actually be used. I just don’t think it’s prudent to use any of the filters for tap water…kind of wasting the purpose (unless in a third world country).  Viruses are the biggest concern…only because of an urban environment and the frequent sewage and garbage problems that would have an immediate effect on any non-tap water sources.  This area will be a work in progress, but adding a half-dozen or so Micropur tabs is an easy alternative and backup.

I’m very much in agreement about possibly not needing shelter in an urban environment given the environment, but I’m confronted with either packing a rain jacket or a multifunction poncho/tarp. If rain is expected, I actually will carry my unbreakable umbrella (a very functional defensive tool), so some of this is negotiable. This is another area I need to evaluate. I can see squatting (or standing under an awning) to wait out a severe thunderstorm, but I don’t have plans to set up a ground shelter and catch a nap…

Two lights is kind of what I’ve settled on over the years.  A regular pocket EDC and a headlamp.  Granted, there is the option of using a small AA angle-head (Zebralight or Armytek) in the pocket and keep the heads strap in the pack, but this is one area I think needs some redundancy in an urban environment. If power is out in a city or building, chances are there will be zero ambient light and not all emergency lights aren’t always reliable.  

I like the 18650, mostly for the size of the light as an improvised impact device, but also the output or battery capacity for running several days if needed.  I have other options.  I could go with AA/14500, which I may do; smaller, lighter, and faster to charge.  Again, I have some evaluations to do…

The Strikeforce is massive and not needed; I agree.  I also EDC a mini Bic, so 2-3 lighters is more than enough.  If I do wear my Dynamis E&E belt, I’m putting a small wheel striker in there and I carry a flat, waxed disk in my wallet for emergency tinder…

Will update later on FAK/CAT/Blow-Out kit.  But yes, my booboo kit is platoon sized!

Peanut Butter tube probably weight half a pound, it’s huge.  I have a few of those smaller nut butter packets I take backpacking; a much smaller and lighter choice to toss a few in.

Alternate comms are a good consideration; just need to assess.  I do have my GMRS license and a dozen radios (yeah, the shitty Baofeng, but they work well for my needs).  GRMS isn’t bad in an urban environment and while you won’t have 5 mile ranges, you can still coordinate if separated by a mile or two.  This is something I would probably coordinate if we were linking up with my son and his GF; for now I’ll hold off, but they are definitely part of the GHB and could be added if the assessment required some additional layers of comms.  Thanks, hadn’t consider it for this kit.

That’s a good site: http://www.oscardelta.co.uk/

Travel wet wipes are replacing the TP; makes more sense in this situation.  Also, need to add the small hand sanitizer bottle…

Already looking into the Android SDR options, to include scanner…very cool and would be a good alternative and leave the dedicated radio in the GHB.  I will continue to look into this (there are some glitches between the software and USB OTG devices, but man, that would be a nice emergency radio option; if possible, having the police/emergency scanner capability would be great for the vast majority of emergency intel as well…hmmmm…

Excellent, though-provoking ideas and recommendations; solid feedback, thanks!



The Shemagh is one of those items that can be very polarizing.  I like them for their multipurpose utility, but ironically, when backpack, I carry silk XL cowboy scarves; and they are literally the same size as most Shemagh (43-44” square). Biggest benefit is they dry extremely fast as I’ve used them as a full towel when backpacking.  There are advantage and disadvantages to both…but when it comes to weight and compactness, silk wins.  That said, I used an Afghan Shemagh every day in Afghanistan, including as a blanket.  

There are some other options for a seat pad.  Not sure why, but this is something I actually find useful when traveling, mostly so I don’t sit and take a break on some wet bench, rock, or in the grass/dirt.  As an extremely simple shelter, I’ve used and trained using the Palmer Furnace method (poncho/tarp draped over as you sit on an insulated pad with a candle between your legs); it’s not comfortable for long but enough ward off hypothermia.  

Sunglasses are part of my EDC (not shown); carry and wear daily…but good call. The clear goggles I keep in the pack are PPE involving night movements.

ROCK6

Having grown up in an urban environment, I think you've got a bit much.

 Short of a hurricane, the city isn't becoming Mogadishu instantly.

Your EDC maybe a poncho or jacket/hat for rain,  water and a way to make clean water, and *maybe* a heat source.

10 miles.   What is that,  a 3 hour walk?  These are paved roads, not the Rockies.   Even assuming an overnight stay, you can find an overpass or doorway to get under.  The south isn't exactly going to freeze you out for 99.87% of your life.

What I agree with: your EDC.  A water bottle and filter.  Maybe ONE snack.  Rock, you're in America. A day without food won't kill you, unless there's a medical reason to have it (swing by a gas station or McDonald's).  Gloves, eye pro, N95 if you really want.  A jacket/poncho and hat. Map, compass, maybe 20ft of cordage.

That's it. Start walking.   You'll be at your car in a few hours.

I appreciate the feedback.  I've only resided in more rural areas or suburbia, but I've been to several cities, both CONUS and OCONUS...too many action and zombie flicks will make your "what if" your kit loads to over-reactionary weight.  



While it's less about sustained, sub-freezing temps, it's more about that high humidity, 40-degrees, and heavy rain that creates issues. Staying dry and/or moving will solve most of those issues.

Will continue to process and assess, but I agree, overthinking leads to overweight loads.

ROCK6

@rock6, I'm in this camp a bit, too. I've been in some cities and traveled for 6 weeks, all urban, with less than what you had. Was in europe, but had a lighter, camel back, camp towel, swiss army knife, and clothing.  I would replace a lot of the redundancy with cash. when I go downtown anymore (and we are heading into the heart of ATL this weekend) I'll have my EDC, maybe a reload, and that's about it besides clothing for the weather. The city has lots of opportunity to purchase things you may need, and it is very unlikely to devolve into a complete shitshow that quickly. So if stuff gets weird or is getting weird, buy a bottle of water and 5 hour energy and just go. I'm guessing most on this site can tell when things are getting off, and are more willing to leave than others. being first out is HUGE.


to cut weight though, I would think about the following:
no water bottle. Plan to drink the ones you have first, and refill them (filtered) as needed. Or be ready to scavenge a bottle out of the trash if you need more.
replace headlamp with just a strap that takes your EDC light
No tent stakes, you can make those if needed.
replace mag springs with mag guts. do that to 3 and you can drop a whole spare mag
drop spare mag carrier. If you get to that point, throw them into your pocket or mag holder
drop the food. maybe carry a snickers or something, but that looks like a decent amount.
replace coffee candy with caffeine pills or 5 hour energy shot
2 knives should be enough, so drop your EDC fixed or the extra one

ADD:
cash and coins. even without power you should be able to use a coin vending machine to get snacks. CASH solves most problems, as long as the world isn't completely gone. CASH gets you a hotel room or something, so you're not in a poncho in the rain.
light to EDC if you're inclined. Like the TRL 7 sub. you can pop off easily to use as a spare

QUESTION:
can you tell me about the holsters? I've been looking for leather OWB for my 365xl and I like that kydex, too.



My City EDC for the weekend. I'll be away from my truck, which is obviously well stocked enough to resupply me to get home, ~22 miles of urban/suburban travel. but for being out and around I will have:
sig 365xl with red dot and light. 15 round reload
combat troodon OTF
small light
keys
watch
Cash
dressed for weather
that's it.

Concur on trying to keep the weight light being essential, and that is a challenge.

OTOH, using the MR Coulee 40, with its much better waistbelt and shoulder straps might allow you to increase the weight a little bit with no adverse affects.  Might even be an overall "plus" no matter what the weight.

If the MR Coulee 25 is packed tight as a sausage, that works against your being able to easily tote anything which you scrounge along the way.  Also works against winter-specific items.

FWIW, finding a "lightweight" silcock key is not exactly easy.

@steviesterno16



Good feedback, thanks!  I'm good on cash, while I hate the weight, I do have a couple of coin-saps full of quarters...this might be a good addition.  We flew to Seattle for Thanksgiving and a lady sitting beside me was visiting Atlanta.  She had both her debit card and credit card hacked and was able to get some cash out the ATM before the bank cancelled the cards and locked her bank account.  She was lucky that she was flying home the next day.  I have both a credit card and second checkings account debit card (small emergency/slush account) I use for these types of trips.  Along with $400-500 in cash, I don't worry too much about a compromise, but if it happens it won't disrupt my regular finances and bank accounts.

We're hitting a concert at the Coca-Cola Roxy tomorrow, but will also be hitting several breweries and a little shopping in that Northwest corner of Atlanta.



I have my third P365XL enroute (my son "borrowed" my other one...which I'm not sure I'll get back), and I have these minimalist holsters for both the P365 and XL.  I really like them for what they are.  They work with optics, and you can drop the mag and clear without even removing the holster.  I love everything about them but doing repeated draw drills; the design takes a little more attention to re-holster...it's not a big thing, but standard IWBs are much easier.

Extra Low Profile Thong Holster



Dude, you're not going to make it two hours into the zombie apocalypse...I'll have a reload or two if you can find me

Good taste in blades too

ROCK6

@ROCK6 I''m taking my wife to the Optimist for christmas, so should be a festive time. I've never been to atlanta, despite living in Marietta for the last 2 years now.

Thanks for the info on the holster. What's the leather one? that looks pretty comfy, too.

I would carry a single sap full of quarters, serves a few purposes that way. If you're ditching water or other stuff you may break even or come out ahead.

I'm currently looking into a Sig Rattler for my travel bag. I have a Glock 17 with flux brace (I know you do, too) and that's my "bigger than my EDC gun" gun for when we travel or stay in hotels. But the thought of about the same size thing in 300BO is intriguing.

Good critique already posted but I’ll beat that dead horse. Besides, it makes it more tender  if Sea2Summit is dining.

BLUF- CUT ALL DUPLICATES

1.  Already mentioned, but I saw at least 3 flashlights (not including your cell) and about 25 knives. Even if you go down to two of each (MAX) you’ve cut most of that weight by 87 pounds. Compass can be a button or wrist, your walking streets, not orienteering or calling for fire.

2.  Mission drives the gear - I just came back from a city vacation and walked all over. Even if the shtf I had enough to get back to the hotel. If you’re walking back to your sustainment load at your truck or hotel, ditch most of that stuff and plan on walking back to where your longer term gear is.

Water, IFAK, rain/weather gear. Maybe some energy gels.  Map. That’s it.

You aren’t starting a fire, you probably aren’t camping out, you’re moving quickly to get back to the truck and your BOB.
Day, night, whatever.  

Stuff all that in a small pack and leave enough room for your wife’s. Your EDC covers most of  the rest.

If you’re camping out ask nice people around you for help, or ask the bums who do this every day. But you are should be back in 3-5 hours even with a 9-11 level detour.

I’d tell you to get it down to a small buttpack, but I couldn’t because what if. I did get it down to a light backpack with room left over though.

Just remember Texas last year.  That 0.13% can kill you dead if it corresponds with you needing to walk out.

You might throw together an extra kit for winter weather.  It's what I do (mine has artic level clothing and other items that would be useful in the winter).

Yeah but we’re in Georgia. If there is going to be a cold snap we know a few days in advance

Another alternative to the shemagh is Varusteleka's square merino wool scarf:

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-square-scarf-merino-wool/57686

I have one in OD and it's quite nice. It's 43" x 43", so it's ~the same size as a shemagh.

Texas knew a few days in advance also and yet a lot of people had issues.

We survived yesterday and last night.  Only real threats were the Scofflaws...hollow points suck, need to make sure I carry a mag or two of some hard-cast solids



I made a few changes; will update and I went back and forth between the Coulee 25 and an even smaller sling bag, which worked out just fine minus a good means carry much water.  We took the wife's car and for the nearby visits, I used the smaller sling bag (Viktos, Upscale 2).  We just carried water bottles (and my umbrella).  

So, a couple observations.  We had a strong storm front come through and hammered us with thunderstorms.  Considering how bad the tornados north of us were...I'm unsure if we would have been venturing out depending on the warnings.  That said, the severe thunderstorms we got did create some traffic issues, and as usual the typical Uber and Lyft conveyances started to dry up or go up drastically in price (I was just monitoring).  No power outages and most places we visited had windows, but it's still nice to have a light or two JIC.

I hate the risks, but we attended a concert last night and as usual, I was only able to get in with a good light and couple improvised defensive tools.  It was a small venue event for my wife; I pissed her off a little staging myself next to a large concrete pillar near an exit.  We were going to Uber, but decided to drive and I left my kit in the car...risk of theft was low, but as usual, life and preparation is all about risk assessments, management, and mitigation.  The event was only about 3 miles to the hotel, but at night, in unfamiliar terrain, a map and even a compass would have been useful if the phone GPS wasn't working and we were looking at doing it on foot.  

Good visit, wife had a good time and I got to go through some mental and practical planning to keep the SHTF skills up to day and refreshed. I pretty set on focusing on mobility and navigation in these situations.  While basic situational awareness (to include local news and weather) and cash/credit cards are the primary SHTF tools, maintaining mobility after good route reconnaissance is a solid focus.  Urban night navigation is always fun in unfamiliar terrain

ROCK6

I’ve said this in other threads, but I think you need to let go of the camping frame of reference for these bags. There are lots of resources in an urban environment that can help meet your needs. Shelter, food, and water may be a lot more convenient to carry with you, but none of that is impossible to find in an emergency.
Also, the idea that you’ll set up a bivy or tent in a city park post-disaster is ludicrous. It’d be tough to pull off if you went out tonight to try it. Between the police, homeless, and random passers-by, it’s going to tough to get a couple hours sleep. Or even worse, relieved of your belongings. How many tornado victims in Kentucky or Tennessee pitched a tarp under an overpass last night? Unless they were homeless before, probably none.
Forget camping and hiking, think more like a downed pilot trying to escape a hostile area.

Others have offered a ton of suggestion on what you can cut to save weight.

My first thought is change to a lighter pack. Before they went out of business I was a huge fan of Golite the ultralight backpacking folks. Look into some of the options the ultra light folks use. The other thing I would suggest is when you get your final
Load out sorted that you give that pack a god twist and shake and get rid of excess strapage. There are several ounces you can shed there as well.

Either combine or ruminate some of those stuff sacks. I have some made of sil nylon and they are whispe lite. If you can’t find any either a local stitch bitch can make you some or let me know I may have a few lying around.

Less lights and ditch the fixed blade. You already have your folder and one on your multi tool. Also ditch the sheath for the multi tool. I bet it’s at least 1/2 an ounce.

You might consider dropping a spare mag and it’s ammo. You are trying to make a quick E&E here not run the Mogadishu Mile.

I think the shelter/bivy can go and just stick with the tarp. I have never been any place in the world that I couldn’t find shelter in an urban area. For me the tarp would me more to be able to screen myself or as additional interior shelter if the roof of a building I was sheltering in was partially collapsed or the windows were out.

The compass is another item that can be a smaller version or just drop down to a button compass. Like someone said you are urban so general direction is enough.

The silcock key is a must but it is heavy as hell so you may need to cut more elsewhere to compensate.

Water bottle can be ditched and just go with the plastic bottles lie in your first picture. They are insanely durable. If you don’t believe me go Todd them off a 2-3 story drop a few times you will be surprised.

The only item I much suggest adding is some version of the Photon micro light. I find that one in red is exceedingly helpful.

Agreed.  This was as "leisurely" trip, but gave me a lot of observation opportunities.  We live in a more rural area, and even my drive to work is a small, two-lane rural US-Route. For improvised shelter/cover, there is always plenty.  Insulation might be an issue if you don't dress properly, but even then, the goal is mobility and movement. One reason I kind of prefer a small pack is just to store layers and rainwear.  At noon, it was warm, about 71 degrees. After the line of thundershowers passed, it dropped about 15 degrees and was just above freezing the following morning.

We ended up doing most of the driving ourselves, but even with Uber, you're constantly in and out of a vehicle and a large bag gets to be a PITA to justify (just to the wife).  I will still down size the day pack, but adding another much smaller option which is really just an EDC-plus, and much easier to carry around and in/out of vehicles frequently…the small sling bag worked well for those situations.

We were never more than a few miles from our hotel or car. The typical “rule of threes” still applies, but I think the priorities can shift given the environmental factors and different resources. Again, this turned out to be an exercise of thought where we were never more than a few miles from the car or hotel, but that route is far from straight-line distance and had we did that on foot, there would have been a lot of obstacles.  Navigation is important to keep your sense of direction (especially at night).  



Good suggestions.  Is it wrong of me to want a titanium silcock key? I had a key with me for this trip and specifically looked for various water points and found many throughout the day.

I actually ditched the pocket knife at one point and just replaced it with a multitool (Leatherman PS4).  That may actually be my situational replacement for these situations, especially if I end up carrying a small, fixed defensive blade.

Flashlights are important.  Indoors, when lights are low, they are essential for navigation. Even in parking garages, the light is beneficial and a durable light is a good impact tool if needed.  

Navigation can be a challenge.  I’m going to stick with having a compass.  Yes, my phone was my primary navigation tool, but at night, when it’s raining, and you lose your orientation, a quick check, even with a button compass, can help save you from having to back-track, or waste time.  

We have another trip planned right after Christmas, staying in “mid-town” Atlanta with my wife’s sis/BIL and their friends coming up from Florida.  Safety in numbers, but I plan to continue reassessing and minimizing my kit for urban contingency-emergency ops.

ROCK6

@rock6 what’s the make of the leather holster? Saw the kydex but I’m thinking I want something in leather.


Glad your trip went well. I ended up drawing when some guy decided to pound on the hotel door and then throw it open. Turned out to be a man employee that thought the room was empty but was surprised to be wrong.


Also the room was haunted. Which is crazy cause I don’t believe in ghosts but we cut our morning, packed our shit snd pretty much ran to the truck

Damn! My wife booked a couple of nights at some mid-town Hampton (hopefully not haunted) for a couple days after Christmas, her sis/BIL and friends are coming up from Florida.

The leather holster is the DeSantis Mini Slide for a Sig P365.  It will work with the P365XL, but I hand to trim it just a little to work with the optic.

ROCK6

I always take ROCK6's comments very seriously.  He has demonstrated long-term and intelligent expertise.  He has shown the unusual, and very valuable ability to change his mind, and be open to novel concepts.

Moreover, he has always been polite and considerate in his remarks; always a welcome approach.

While he and I may differ on some minor points, I consider Rock6 as a Site asset.

@rock6 thanks for the info, we have the same optic I think  so that’s what I’m leaning towards.

Check out the Optimist. Literally the best seafood I’ve had in my life

That's why God made the weather service.

Easily available on your phone, radio, internet, newspaper, TV or looking up.

If you're walking around in a snowstorm in shorts and a Tshirt cuz you didn't think ahead, you deserve your Darwin award.

Rock, here's my city EDC.   Ready?  Pocket knife, cash, shoes.   Once I left Los Angeles, a pistol.  Once cell phones became ubiquitous,  one of those.  A flash light if I remember and expect to be out at night.

Remember,  if you're on foot in a city, you've come from somewhere.  Sure, if you ride a subway it might be a bigger issue, but you likely came from a car or a hotel.   Both of which aren't all that far away.  Most people don't go to a hotel then Uber 80 miles away....

@rock06

Been thinking about this post and building my own grab and go EDC kit. Picked up this fancy bag today. So now I have some reloads, knife/lights/multi tool, armor, pistol options, rifle caliber pistol options, etc all in the same place.

I’ll use it for trips like I’ve had recently. But thought you’d get a kick out of it.

I’ll add some space blankets, water bottles, food, fire options, etc but thought this was a pretty good start.
Attached File


Attached File

Do what works for you. I've been just experimenting...but I've been around enough blocks on this globe that it makes me a little paranoid in big cities



@steviesterno16

Looks like a good start...liking it. It's always a balance of necessity vs. "would like to have", without sacrificing mobiltiy.

ROCK6

I'd add a micro weapon light to your P365.
I carry a TLR7sub on my G 43x daily and I've come to realize it's more important than night sights.
I get it it's cumbersome to carry. So maybe just have a light and holster in your pack so you can add it if needed.

One small point: your snacks are garbage. High carb/sugar is only good for extreme exertion where glycogen is being burned off, and you want low-intensity walking whenever possible. I’d replace your bars with something that has a higher protein and fat balance, the more fat the better. Some carbs and sugar treats are good, but they shouldn’t be the base.

Edit: I just noticed the squeeze tube, is that peanut butter? If so then I take it back and maybe you have the fats covered.

Where do you get the Desani with the full caps? All we get in upstate SC is the thin bottles with the half caps. They don't seal very well after opening.

@ROCK6 thanks, I'm improving it as we speak. I ended up putting together a couple of "emergency altoid tins" with redundant fire, lights, and blades. Keeping one in the wife's van and one in my bag here. Went cabin camping and left in a hurry, I didn't have anything to make fire easily. That won't happen again. Yes I could have done some of the privative methods or even used the stove to get something going but a bic is so much easier.
do you read stuff from here?:https://integratedskillsgroup.com/2021/06/lines-of-equipment-2-sustainment/ lots of the same points you're making about gear and even some of the tools.

Going on a few little adventures so I'll end up using this (likely without the rattler) and I went hiking with it this weekend. Add clothing/food as needed.

Next up is boo-boo kit building...

ISG is pretty solid and one of the reasons I was looking at building a smaller "sustainment" pack designed for higher mobility...they were a good source for me as well. Lessons learned are always valuable. It's funny you mention a 'boo-boo' kit. I have a few smaller ones stashed with my backpacking, day-hiking, and vacation packs, but when I was putting my "sustainment" pack together, I had a good trauma kit but no booboo stuff.  I just put a couple together.




These are pretty simple and always handy...I've used just about all the meds (aspirin, anti-diarrhea, anti-acid, anti-histamine, Motrin, and Tylenol); both the anti-itch cream and sting-eze wipes have come in handy, I love the knuckle bandages, Sliver-Gripper tweezers, and the Leuko/sports tape is a great blister prevention tape as well and good for securing gauze.

ROCK6

Reading, with great interest.

@ROCK6 sorry, this fell off the top of my list and didn't see you had replied. I genuinely appreciate your posts and information and am trying to learn from your experiences.
My boo-boo kit will be 2 fold. One like you have above, for the adults. And one for my kids, who are 3 and 6. They need Paw Patrol bandaids and candy to get over most of their little bumps.

I did get my oldest more interested in this stuff, and he wants to build his own "Adventure kit" fanny pack for when we hike so he can pull his own weight. All 40 pounds of it.

He's already rocking a light up analog watch on nato straps with a suunto compass on it

I always learn something when ROCK6 posts.

Been there and totally understand.  We did hiking trips when our son was old enough to walk. I was the backpacking mule, so as soon as our kids were old enough to start carrying some of the essentials, I got them interested and off they went.  I've done a few, but probably the easiest is some type of small kid's hydration pack. I started small; just water, snacks, booboo kit, compass (with training), whistle, and flashlight...as we did more trips and training (fire and knives), I expanded into a pseudo, mini-survival/adventure pack. We had a lot of fun with them at that age...perfect time to get them interested and start learning the basics.









ROCK6

Bolt knife, Mora, Farmer.  SF standard blade load out?  

We were doing knife safety, handling, and knife chore training

I will say the carbon steel Mora is perfect to teach knife maintenance!

ROCK6