Is there a National Guideline for ambulance response?

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is there a National Guideline for ambulance response?

Posted: 5/25/2018 1:28:55 PM EDT

NFPA does one for fire and I am sure there are some for police. Our ambulance company wrote their own response guidelines and I need to have some information to support why they should be adjusted lower. Is there any group such as NREMT, NAEMT or another group that publishes a best practices or standards along with data. I have read some in JEMS but it varies from area to area

Posted: 5/25/2018 6:36:09 PM EDT

[#1]

Not sure as I haven’t looked into it but we can run a query for analytics on or reporting system. It has a drop down for changing what criteria we want to look at. Two of them are NFPA 1710 BLS/AED agency and NFPA 1710 EMS ALS agency.

The criteria for compliance is:

BLS. Turn out time: 1:00, Travel time: 4:00, compliance percentage 90% and minimum EMT-B staff of 2.

ALS Turn out time 1:00, Travel time 8:00, compliance percentage 90% and minimum staffing of EMT-B staff of 2 EMT-P staff of 2.

I personally don’t do our analytics. Just throwing this out to you and hope this helps.

Posted: 5/25/2018 6:50:55 PM EDT

[#2]

I’ve always heard 8 minute response time in 90% of calls and that’s what both agencies I have worked for have used as a benchmark but I’m not sure if/where it would be nationally published or if it’s just a recognized industry standard.

Posted: 5/25/2018 7:52:39 PM EDT

[#3]

I would check at the State level.

20

eta, https://www.emsworld.com/article/10324786/ems-response-time-standards

Posted: 5/26/2018 9:41:26 AM EDT

[#4]

Maybe check with:

CAAS

Or

American Ambulance Association

Posted: 5/26/2018 2:47:22 PM EDT

[#5]

All very helpful answers!Thanks guys .

Posted: 5/26/2018 3:28:28 PM EDT

[#6]

Are you talking response times only, or level of care (ALS/BLS) sent?

Posted: 5/26/2018 5:51:00 PM EDT

[#7]

This may not help but we use ProQa in our 911 center. After calls are queried and a response is dictated, units are dispatched per severity. We are a large county with county fire departments (part paid/volunteer) and 2 city fire departments. Plus a county ran EMS.

Alpha calls get EMS non emergency.
Bravo gets county fire emergency and EMS emergency. City does not run Bravo with the exception of vehicle accidents. Because there are more EMS units in the city
Charlie gets all fire and EMS emergency
Delta is same as Charlie just a higher level of call
Echo is an immediate life threat and gets everyone even supervisors going..

Fire can and does fill in often when EMS runs out of units. Happens every day seems like.

ProQA Video Demo: Breathing Problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVK3aI9xaNU

Posted: 6/1/2018 3:45:34 PM EDT

[#8]

NFPA 1710 includes response time and staffing information for EMS as well as fire. You can read alot of the information used to justify the standard here.

Posted: 6/15/2018 5:45:34 PM EDT

[#9]

Any benchmarks come out of NEMSIS data?

Posted: 6/15/2018 9:34:02 PM EDT

[#10]

I am familiar with pro qa. Thanks for the help guys. Looks like we will be asking IAFF to do a study soon

Posted: 6/15/2018 9:37:08 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
NFPA 1710 includes response time and staffing information for EMS as well as fire. You can read alot of the information used to justify the standard here.

View Quote

Very helpful!

Posted: 6/20/2018 6:31:24 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
NFPA 1710 includes response time and staffing information for EMS as well as fire. You can read alot of the information used to justify the standard here.

View Quote

Laughable IAFF propaganda.

Posted: 6/20/2018 10:20:51 PM EDT

[#13]

Disregard

Posted: 6/20/2018 10:24:05 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

Laughable IAFF propaganda.

View Quote

Please elaborate

Posted: 6/25/2018 12:58:02 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Please elaborate

View Quote

If you are not aware of the fallacies of IAFF and IAFC fire based EMS propaganda, then I have to ask if you're really the best person to be advising anyone on how to set up their EMS system.

Guide your response time percentile targets based on the current science surrounding time sensitive emergencies, and your system's unique geographical challenges; not what Harold Shitaburger or whoever is in charge of the IAFF now tells you to do, directly or through the network of BS they've worked their tendrills into.

Posted: 6/25/2018 1:13:30 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Please elaborate

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Laughable IAFF propaganda.

Please elaborate

Consider for a moment that you have a report written in a scholarly article format allegedly conveying the findings of EMS response experiments, with an IAFF logo plastered on the front and not a single mention of the potential for a conflict of interest having a 300,000 member fire union involved with this.

Posted: 6/25/2018 7:50:01 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Consider for a moment that you have a report written in a scholarly article format allegedly conveying the findings of EMS response experiments, with an IAFF logo plastered on the front and not a single mention of the potential for a conflict of interest having a 300,000 member fire union involved with this.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Laughable IAFF propaganda.

Please elaborate

Consider for a moment that you have a report written in a scholarly article format allegedly conveying the findings of EMS response experiments, with an IAFF logo plastered on the front and not a single mention of the potential for a conflict of interest having a 300,000 member fire union involved with this.

You do realize that, like it or not, much of the EMS in the United States is fire-based, right?
Why don't you specifically state your opposition to the standards referenced, instead of generalized IAFF bashing?

Posted: 6/25/2018 8:13:14 PM EDT

[#18]

No standard per se, but derivative of AHA-CPR data says, under most circumstances, 4 min or the head's dead. In Seattle, where an Engine Company's response time is around 2 min. to most of the city, when they put AED's and defibrillators on the engines their save rate went through the roof...made the Medic units blush.

Posted: 6/25/2018 8:57:51 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

Consider for a moment that you have a report written in a scholarly article format allegedly conveying the findings of EMS response experiments, with an IAFF logo plastered on the front and not a single mention of the potential for a conflict of interest having a 300,000 member fire union involved with this.

View Quote

can you provide a non biased study by someone not affiliated with fire or ems?

Posted: 6/26/2018 9:47:19 PM EDT

[#20]

Alive is right on!

Posted: 6/27/2018 10:51:59 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
You do realize that, like it or not, much of the EMS in the United States is fire-based, right?
Why don't you specifically state your opposition to the standards referenced, instead of generalized IAFF bashing?

View Quote

So the basis for your point of view is that everyone's doing it?

So when all your friends jump off a bridge, you're going to do it too?

Let's see..... You do realize that, like it or not, firearms ownership is prohibited for most people in the world, right? Maybe you should be disarmed under force of law for your own good since everyone else is doing it.

Posted: 6/27/2018 10:57:13 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
can you provide a non biased study by someone not affiliated with fire or ems?

View Quote

No such study exists without giant gaping flaws.

Posted: 6/27/2018 11:03:45 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I have read some in JEMS but it varies from area to area

View Quote

This is because each area has different geography, different funding, and different, unique challenges. The NFPA/IAFF/IAFC trinity godhead has a notoriously difficult time adapting to real world circumstances and does a poor job at providing all the answers.