Fellow arfcommers, honestly how important are gun rights to you?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Fellow arfcommers, honestly how important are gun rights to you? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:40:41 AM EDT

I see this on this site from time to time.

"Guns are the least of our worries, I'm worried about tax hikes, global warming nonsense, and national health care goofiness"

"Guns are not as important as..."

How can anyone feel that way?

The Constitution is meaningless unless we have the ability to enforce it with our government. Without guns, you have nothing. Period.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:41:20 AM EDT

[#1]

I fuckin hate guns!!!

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:42:15 AM EDT

[#2]

All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:43:48 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

+1

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:43:51 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:47:25 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

Doesn't the right to bear arms pretty much guarantee the other rights?

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:48:32 AM EDT

[#6]

The only thing more important to me politically than my 2nd Amendment rights are my 1st Amendment rights.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:48:47 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

Doesn't the right to bear arms pretty much guarantee the other rights?

Why yes... yes it does.

HH

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:48:58 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
The Constitution is meaningless unless we have the ability to enforce it with our government. Without guns, you have nothing. Period.

Totally agree. If we sacrifice our principles in favor of electing someone who wants to erase those principles but says he will make our lives better, than we are truly lost.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:49:28 AM EDT

[#9]

A number 1

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:50:56 AM EDT

[#10]

For me, firearms have always been secondary. My specific support of gun rights (Bill of Rights notwithstanding) is simply the fruit of my other deeply held ideological beliefs.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:51:09 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

Doesn't the right to bear arms pretty much guarantee the other rights?

Exactly.

The right to bear arms protects us from tyranny. The loss of this right means the loss of ALL others.

We must remain watchful and vigilant.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:52:48 AM EDT

[#12]

There tends to be a fairly large group of mindless fucktards here that have no real clue about guns other than that they look cool. I bet 90% would be against laws like here where anyone can carry concealed w/o a permit. They themselves can't handle the thought of that much freedom.

Most here act like Lepers or closeted gays when it comes to their being gunny. In essence ARF is largely populated by pathetic, weak men who are unable to stand up for themselves and who sit in the dark, fondling their AR's hoping for a disaster to befall us so they can rush out and act upon their hero fantasies.

Without guns we do not have any other rights.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:54:25 AM EDT

[#13]

All or nothing with me.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:57:08 AM EDT

[#14]

I vote my guns.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:58:28 AM EDT

[#15]

I always hear people saying that the second amendment guarantees all the other amendments and that if they take our guns away we'll lose all our other rights later (which I happen to strongly agree with).... well, how come we aren't using our guns to keep our second ammendment rights? In other words, how far does the second ammendment have to be eroded before it wakes up and protects itself? If the act of having arms doesn't even serve to protect the right to have arms, how well does that that right protect the others?

I agree that there once was a day when patriots would make true use of the second amendment for the greater good of the republic. I however fear that day has come and gone.

Posted: 6/4/2008 11:59:24 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
There tends to be a fairly large group of mindless fucktards here that have no real clue about guns other than that they look cool. I bet 90% would be against laws like here where anyone can carry concealed w/o a permit. They themselves can't handle the thought of that much freedom.

Most here act like Lepers or closeted gays when it comes to their being gunny. In essence ARF is largely populated by pathetic, weak men who are unable to stand up for themselves and who sit in the dark, fondling their AR's hoping for a disaster to befall us so they can rush out and act upon their hero fantasies.

Without guns we do not have any other rights.

Oh, man, I love these self-important posts. Whatever make you feel better about yourself, buddy. Hard to believe you've wasted three years here among all us pathetic, weak men. "I alone am a man!"

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:00:08 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I always hear people saying that the second amendment guarantees all the other amendments and that if they take our guns away we'll lose all our other rights later (which I happen to strongly agree with).... well, how come we aren't using our guns to keep our second ammendment rights? In other words, how far does the second ammendment have to be eroded before it wakes up and protects itself? If the act of having arms doesn't even serve to protect the right to have arms, how well does that that right protect the others?

I agree that there once was a day when patriots would make true use of the second amendment for the greater good of the republic. I however fear that day has come and gone.

the man has a point

and the 1st is every bit as important as the 2nd

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:01:21 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
There tends to be a fairly large group of mindless fucktards here that have no real clue about guns other than that they look cool. I bet 90% would be against laws like here where anyone can carry concealed w/o a permit. They themselves can't handle the thought of that much freedom.

Most here act like Lepers or closeted gays when it comes to their being gunny. In essence ARF is largely populated by pathetic, weak men who are unable to stand up for themselves and who sit in the dark, fondling their AR's hoping for a disaster to befall us so they can rush out and act upon their hero fantasies.

Without guns we do not have any other rights.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:03:29 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I always hear people saying that the second amendment guarantees all the other amendments and that if they take our guns away we'll lose all our other rights later (which I happen to strongly agree with).... well, how come we aren't using our guns to keep our second ammendment rights? In other words, how far does the second ammendment have to be eroded before it wakes up and protects itself? If the act of having arms doesn't even serve to protect the right to have arms, how well does that that right protect the others?

I agree that there once was a day when patriots would make true use of the second amendment for the greater good of the republic. I however fear that day has come and gone.

Good point.

I beleive that the people will reach a breaking point with an attack on certain rights. Whatever happens after that, well you know...

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:04:09 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
There tends to be a fairly large group of mindless fucktards here that have no real clue about guns other than that they look cool. I bet 90% would be against laws like here where anyone can carry concealed w/o a permit. They themselves can't handle the thought of that much freedom.

Most here act like Lepers or closeted gays when it comes to their being gunny. In essence ARF is largely populated by pathetic, weak men who are unable to stand up for themselves and who sit in the dark, fondling their AR's hoping for a disaster to befall us so they can rush out and act upon their hero fantasies.

Without guns we do not have any other rights.

"I'm a manly Alaskan man's man and the rest of you pantywaisted faggots wouldn't know a man if he kicked you in the teeth."

Nice.

So now, if you're not 100% tacticool 100% of the time, you're a "pathetic, weak" man who is "unable to stand up for" yourself.

I am so glad I don't know this guy personally.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:05:40 PM EDT

[#21]

I view a politician's stance on the 2nd ammendment as the litmus test to how much (or little) they respect the values this country was founded upon. I have yet to find a staunch 2nd ammendment supporter that felt any of the other inalienable rights should be regulated or removed.

So yes, it's very important to me.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:06:08 PM EDT

[#22]

Pass the popcorn, going to be a good show!!

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:06:33 PM EDT

[#23]

Very important to me and also important that my children can have rights and freedoms that they deserve as Americans.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:07:02 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
The only thing more important to me politically than my 2nd Amendment rights are my 1st Amendment rights.

Just because it is before doesn't mean it is guaranteed; the second secures it.

Ok, first thing: put Freedom of Speech in there.

Uh sirs, how are we going to make that happen?

Good point, second thing....

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:07:41 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
I always hear people saying that the second amendment guarantees all the other amendments and that if they take our guns away we'll lose all our other rights later (which I happen to strongly agree with).... well, how come we aren't using our guns to keep our second ammendment rights? In other words, how far does the second ammendment have to be eroded before it wakes up and protects itself? If the act of having arms doesn't even serve to protect the right to have arms, how well does that that right protect the others?

I agree that there once was a day when patriots would make true use of the second amendment for the greater good of the republic. I however fear that day has come and gone.

You first. Its not going to happen until someone goes first. If you're willing to stump on ARFCOM for such a willingness to exercise your rights in this manner, why won't you go first?

Just another person that wants the benefit without throwing in his own buck o five.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:09:00 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

Doesn't the right to bear arms pretty much guarantee the other rights?

+1 Without them we can not enforce the other rights

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:09:37 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Ok, first thing: put Freedom of Speech in there.

Uh sirs, how are we going to make that happen?

Good point, second thing....

Too bad that ISN'T how it happened.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:10:58 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ok, first thing: put Freedom of Speech in there.

Uh sirs, how are we going to make that happen?

Good point, second thing....

Too bad that ISN'T how it happened.

Yeah, but it would've made sense.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:11:57 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There tends to be a fairly large group of mindless fucktards here that have no real clue about guns other than that they look cool. I bet 90% would be against laws like here where anyone can carry concealed w/o a permit. They themselves can't handle the thought of that much freedom.

Most here act like Lepers or closeted gays when it comes to their being gunny. In essence ARF is largely populated by pathetic, weak men who are unable to stand up for themselves and who sit in the dark, fondling their AR's hoping for a disaster to befall us so they can rush out and act upon their hero fantasies.

Without guns we do not have any other rights.

Oh, man, I love these self-important posts. Whatever make you feel better about yourself, buddy. Hard to believe you've wasted three years here among all us pathetic, weak men. "I alone am a man!"

Nowhere in there did I say that "I alone am a man" or anything of the sort. I cannot be responsible for your inference of such. I could play the same game and infer from your post and locale that you are one of the very people that I was referencing, but I digress.

And in reality, the smart ones here know what I am doing when I am chiding people for being wimpy.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:12:05 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

Doesn't the right to bear arms pretty much guarantee the other rights?

It only guarantees other rights if you actually use your weapons to defend them.

If people who have so much put into firearms won't even protect their right to keep and bear arms, what makes you think they will do it for other rights?

If you try to take away my 1st amendment rights, I will fight to keep them, and if you try to take away my 2nd amendment rights I will fight with equal determination to keep those rights as well as any other rights in the Constitution.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:13:25 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I always hear people saying that the second amendment guarantees all the other amendments and that if they take our guns away we'll lose all our other rights later (which I happen to strongly agree with).... well, how come we aren't using our guns to keep our second ammendment rights? In other words, how far does the second ammendment have to be eroded before it wakes up and protects itself? If the act of having arms doesn't even serve to protect the right to have arms, how well does that that right protect the others?

I agree that there once was a day when patriots would make true use of the second amendment for the greater good of the republic. I however fear that day has come and gone.

You first. Its not going to happen until someone goes first. If you're willing to stump on ARFCOM for such a willingness to exercise your rights in this manner, why won't you go first?

Just another person that wants the benefit without throwing in his own buck o five.

Exactly. I too think this is the heart of the issue. The first few people who will undoubtedly be remembered as patriots 100 years from now are definitely going to take a serious thumpin' and most likely won't survive it. Who REALLY wants to be first in that line? That gets at the heart of the OP's question: How important are your rights to you? Answer: Important enough to "stump" about as you say, but not yet important enough to be first in line for Ruby Ridge part II.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:13:41 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There tends to be a fairly large group of mindless fucktards here that have no real clue about guns other than that they look cool. I bet 90% would be against laws like here where anyone can carry concealed w/o a permit. They themselves can't handle the thought of that much freedom.

Most here act like Lepers or closeted gays when it comes to their being gunny. In essence ARF is largely populated by pathetic, weak men who are unable to stand up for themselves and who sit in the dark, fondling their AR's hoping for a disaster to befall us so they can rush out and act upon their hero fantasies.

Without guns we do not have any other rights.

"I'm a manly Alaskan man's man and the rest of you pantywaisted faggots wouldn't know a man if he kicked you in the teeth."

Nice.

So now, if you're not 100% tacticool 100% of the time, you're a "pathetic, weak" man who is "unable to stand up for" yourself.

I am so glad I don't know this guy personally.

Man, I struck a cord with you pansies.

I never said I was tacticool. I just ain't afraid to let my parents/wife/friends know I have guns, unlike some of you wusses.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:15:08 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I fuckin hate guns!!!

I love mine... not only that but I will never give them up to any tyrranical governments that want me in shackles... ever.

I am a free man, I intend to stay that way until my death... whenever it may occur.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:15:29 PM EDT

[#34]

I found this part humorous. No one is going to "enforce the constitution". Be happy with the few privileges you have and watch American idol tonight.

Quoted:
The Constitution is meaningless unless we have the ability to enforce it with our government. Without guns, you have nothing. Period.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:16:38 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There tends to be a fairly large group of mindless fucktards here that have no real clue about guns other than that they look cool. I bet 90% would be against laws like here where anyone can carry concealed w/o a permit. They themselves can't handle the thought of that much freedom.

Most here act like Lepers or closeted gays when it comes to their being gunny. In essence ARF is largely populated by pathetic, weak men who are unable to stand up for themselves and who sit in the dark, fondling their AR's hoping for a disaster to befall us so they can rush out and act upon their hero fantasies.

Without guns we do not have any other rights.

Oh, man, I love these self-important posts. Whatever make you feel better about yourself, buddy. Hard to believe you've wasted three years here among all us pathetic, weak men. "I alone am a man!"

Nowhere in there did I say that "I alone am a man" or anything of the sort. I cannot be responsible for your inference of such. I could play the same game and infer from your post and locale that you are one of the very people that I was referencing, but I digress.

And in reality, the smart ones here know what I am doing when I am chiding people for being wimpy.

Oh, I'm sure you think you're spurring folks into action. As for your inferences about me, they're about as accurate as your assumptions about the type of people who "largely populate" Arfcom. But, again, this is the internet, so your chest-beating is to be expected. Carry on.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:18:18 PM EDT

[#36]

All of our rights are important. I dont like seeing any one of them trampled over as much as the next.

And its not just the 2nd that is under constant attack. They all are in one way or another.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:21:21 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I always hear people saying that the second amendment guarantees all the other amendments and that if they take our guns away we'll lose all our other rights later (which I happen to strongly agree with).... well, how come we aren't using our guns to keep our second ammendment rights? In other words, how far does the second ammendment have to be eroded before it wakes up and protects itself? If the act of having arms doesn't even serve to protect the right to have arms, how well does that that right protect the others?

I agree that there once was a day when patriots would make true use of the second amendment for the greater good of the republic. I however fear that day has come and gone.

You first. Its not going to happen until someone goes first. If you're willing to stump on ARFCOM for such a willingness to exercise your rights in this manner, why won't you go first?

Just another person that wants the benefit without throwing in his own buck o five.

Exactly. I too think this is the heart of the issue. The first few people who will undoubtedly be remembered as patriots 100 years from now are definitely going to take a serious thumpin' and most likely won't survive it. Who REALLY wants to be first in that line? That gets at the heart of the OP's question: How important are your rights to you? Answer: Important enough to "stump" about as you say, but not yet important enough to be first in line for Ruby Ridge part II.

Right now there is too much to lose. Heller is going to be ruled on. Except for CA/NY I keep hearing good news as far as pro gun legislation. In AZ eventually our POS Governor will be on her ass and we'll have a chance to put someone in that won't veto legislation.

Frankly if anyone did go first, good cause or no within say the next 20 years, I would be the first to sign up to fight along side the government. Too much good is happening right now.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:24:41 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There tends to be a fairly large group of mindless fucktards here that have no real clue about guns other than that they look cool. I bet 90% would be against laws like here where anyone can carry concealed w/o a permit. They themselves can't handle the thought of that much freedom.

Most here act like Lepers or closeted gays when it comes to their being gunny. In essence ARF is largely populated by pathetic, weak men who are unable to stand up for themselves and who sit in the dark, fondling their AR's hoping for a disaster to befall us so they can rush out and act upon their hero fantasies.

Without guns we do not have any other rights.

Oh, man, I love these self-important posts. Whatever make you feel better about yourself, buddy. Hard to believe you've wasted three years here among all us pathetic, weak men. "I alone am a man!"

Nowhere in there did I say that "I alone am a man" or anything of the sort. I cannot be responsible for your inference of such. I could play the same game and infer from your post and locale that you are one of the very people that I was referencing, but I digress.

And in reality, the smart ones here know what I am doing when I am chiding people for being wimpy.

Oh, I'm sure you think you're spurring folks into action. As for your inferences about me, they're about as accurate as your assumptions about the type of people who "largely populate" Arfcom. But, again, this is the internet, so your chest-beating is to be expected. Carry on.

I find it hilarious that instead of proving me wrong, you are instead attacking me, kinda like a liberal does.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:34:28 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I find it hilarious that instead of proving me wrong, you are instead attacking me, kinda like a liberal does.

I find it hilarious that you expect anyone to prove you wrong, and that as you complain about being "attacked", you yourself are engaging in a bit of ad hominem by equating me with a liberal.

Your assertion is that ARFCOM is populated by mealy-mouthed girly men who do nothing to protect their rights, or are afraid to tell people they own guns. Clearly, there's nothing I can do to "prove you wrong"; you're going to make whatever baseless assumptions you want. I can tell you that I don't hide my status as a gun owner from anyone, that I have stickers on my truck from the NRA and my state rifle association, and that my name is on court filings challenging gun laws. Now, I'm sure that's not enough, and that based on the fact that I live in Illinois, you're going to assume that I'm "one of the people" you were referencing. Think what you will.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:34:30 PM EDT

[#40]

The 1st Amendment is the second most important to me.

However it doesn't carry the ability to secure my rights like the 2A does.

And while others may say that we have very few patriots this day in age, that's no excuse to give up on the 2A.

I'd rather invest my rights in optimism, than pessimism.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:41:02 PM EDT

[#41]

The 2nd is just as important as other rights. It is an issue, but not THE issue.

I sincerely doubt, short of HUGE & SUDDEN negative changes, we as gun owners will ever make any organized, non-defensive use of our weapons. We'll continue to let little bits and pieces slip by, and our kids won't know any better... and they'll let more bits and pieces slip by and their kids won't know any better... etc.

Which is why I personally won't vote for a "less crappy" candidate just to stop the "more crappy" candidate from winning (voting against someone, instead of for someone). As much as it sucks, I think that a more crappy candidate has a better chance of getting people really riled up and to the point they will consider doing something about it.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:43:58 PM EDT

[#42]

Guns is a good litmus test.

If they'll shit on gun, than more than likely the rest of the Constitution is even less relevent.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:45:35 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

plus eleventy billion

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:46:29 PM EDT

[#44]

Gun rights are pretty high up on my list.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:49:28 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
The 1st Amendment is the second most important to me.

However it doesn't carry the ability to secure my rights like the 2A does.

And while others may say that we have very few patriots this day in age, that's no excuse to give up on the 2A.

I'd rather invest my rights in optimism, than pessimism.

In an organized way, the 2nd could in theory protect/secure your rights. As an individual they don't do much of anything for you in that matter.

The 1st, however would be the precursor to using the 2nd, in our ability to protest, organize meetings and rallies, and in general get people together to actually care/do something.

I think the two need to be hand in hand for any type of securing/protecting of our rights. One without the other is IMO virtually worthless... although I'd say that getting a large group of unarmed people to do something would probably be more effective than lone gunmen. Perhaps the 1st isn't COMPLETELY worthless w/o the 2nd, but it's severely hindered.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:51:04 PM EDT

[#46]

I vote

Gun
God
Pro Life

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:52:46 PM EDT

[#47]

What would be the point of protesting an opressive government if you had no way to escalate the issue?

The government will do nothing when the citizens are merely talk, without game.

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:54:04 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

Doesn't the right to bear arms pretty much guarantee the other rights?

AMEN!!!!

Posted: 6/4/2008 12:58:12 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I find it hilarious that instead of proving me wrong, you are instead attacking me, kinda like a liberal does.

I find it hilarious that you expect anyone to prove you wrong, and that as you complain about being "attacked", you yourself are engaging in a bit of ad hominem by equating me with a liberal.

Your assertion is that ARFCOM is populated by mealy-mouthed girly men who do nothing to protect their rights, or are afraid to tell people they own guns. Clearly, there's nothing I can do to "prove you wrong"; you're going to make whatever baseless assumptions you want. I can tell you that I don't hide my status as a gun owner from anyone, that I have stickers on my truck from the NRA and my state rifle association, and that my name is on court filings challenging gun laws. Now, I'm sure that's not enough, and that based on the fact that I live in Illinois, you're going to assume that I'm "one of the people" you were referencing. Think what you will.

Sometimes we think we're being all subtle and smart and stuff.

Posted: 6/4/2008 1:01:51 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
All of the rights in the Constitution are important to me, not just firearms.

Same here. Which is exactly why I consider the protection of the 2nd amendment to be absolutely critical.

I vote for freedom. With the current state of things, that means I vote my guns.

The 2nd is where we begin to retreat when things start to go to shit. Things are going to shit. Not to the point of uprising, I'm not saying that. But when things are going in a bad way the last thing I'm willing to give up is the mutual trust I have and we all have as citizens to not make that call. I reserve the right to decide when enough is enough. I'll put up with a great deal of bullshit and infringement upon other freedoms and work through the political process to do my part to try and change things. But if the politicians don't trust you with your guns then I don't trust them either. The 2nd amendment is the last line in the sand. The 2nd amendment is also the letter of law according to our political process. If those in power ever decided to start violating our policital process and not fight fair then people might begin to wonder why in hell they are still fighting fair. Its a matter of principle.

I'm not giving mine up. I have a strong interest in not being turned in to a criminal when they demand I give my guns up and I refuse. Therefore I will make sure I vote in a way to prevent that from happening. I don't know about you guys, but I'll never turn my guns in. Period. And I don't want to become a criminal either. Therefore I vote accordingly. You should too.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Fellow arfcommers, honestly how important are gun rights to you? (Page 1 of 2)

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