what's the deal with firearm "clones"

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - what's the deal with firearm "clones"

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:35:30 PM EDT

why is it that anyone under the sun can build an ar which is in fact a clone of the original ar15 and the same goes for the 1911.

but when i can't afford an mp5/hk94 i have to cross my fingers and buy a $2000 piece of shit 'clone' built by some tool who half the people in the world wouldn't even give the time to shit on.

what gives? is the hk system so hard to duplicate?

please help me understand.

ap

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:40:08 PM EDT

[#1]

A few companies are producing the majority of AR forgings. Now, any doofus with a milling machine can start producing ARs. (No offense to our beloved manufacturers)

The manufacturing procedure is different for the HK and we do not have a stream of US made parts. With only one or two people making parts, uniformity and quality control is iffy at best.

Furthermore, demand for ARs has gone through the roof. Companies making ARs are practically popping up every month.

The question is NOT where are the HK clone makers. The question is where are the buyers?

- BG

Look in the HK forum here. Less than a dozen posts in the last day. The only large bloc of HK-droolers are over at HKPro, and they are hardly a consumer demographic in their own right.

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:40:30 PM EDT

[#2]

lack of demand I suppose. perhaps some legal issues too.

Is that vague enough?

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:42:22 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
why is it that anyone under the sun can build an ar which is in fact a clone of the original ar15 and the same goes for the 1911.

but when i can't afford an mp5/hk94 i have to cross my fingers and buy a $2000 piece of shit 'clone' built by some tool who half the people in the world wouldn't even give the time to shit on him.

what gives? is the hk system so hard to duplicate?

please help me understand.

ap

well you should know by now that the HK system is perfect in every way. I hear you dont even have to aim them and they kill everyone in the room. and its a feature that they dont have a last round bolt hold open. wouldnt want the other guy to know when you ran outa ammo right?

thats probly why the clones cost so much, they need a few drops of chuck norrris tears to really match up with HK perfection. too bad he never crys. hence the price.

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:43:54 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
lack of demand I suppose. perhaps some legal issues too.

Is that vague enough?

Actually, I forgot about the legal issues. I dont know why the Toad can produce them, but I do know that another company is barred by HK from making 9mms, and lord knows they could and would make them if allowed.

I don't have the details, only the story.

- BG

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:44:05 PM EDT

[#5]

i dnon't know, if hk imported hk94s again i would think they would be flying off the shelves.

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:44:52 PM EDT

[#6]

Don't patents expire after a certain amount of time? Might that have something to do with it? AR and 1911 have been around a while.

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:45:21 PM EDT

[#7]

I would think it had to do more with patent law.

The 1911 and AR patents have run out so anyone can make them without a license...

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:46:22 PM EDT

[#8]

Its alot easier for some out to mill out an AR forging than it is to bend stamp and weld a HK up.

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:47:27 PM EDT

[#9]

I dont know what your talking about, I just got a Vulcan Navy Seal Special Forces MP5 and its the shit!

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:51:36 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Its alot easier for some out to mill out an AR forging than it is to bend stamp and weld a HK up.

Dunno about the legal issues, the HK series nearly the same age as ARs, but from a foreign country.

Now with CNC machines, I'd have to think it's easier to build an AR than the stamped steel HK series rifles.

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:54:24 PM EDT

[#11]

Very true, unless you have a pattern for stamped receivers its a heck of alot harder to build stamped receivers than it is a milled one.. Hmm, I wonder if anyone was ballsy enough to mill a HK patterned receiver..

That would be a work of art :D

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:56:13 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I dont know what your talking about, I just got a Vulcan Navy Seal Special Forces MP5 and its the shit!

Isn't that the machine gun of the special forces?

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:58:45 PM EDT

[#13]

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:59:30 PM EDT

[#14]

Nothing wrong with the PTR 91 clones. They have a nicer fit and finish then many H&Ks that cost 2-3 times as much.

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:59:57 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I dont know what your talking about, I just got a Vulcan Navy Seal Special Forces MP5 and its the shit!

Isn't that the machine gun of the special forces?

Yep

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:00:13 PM EDT

[#16]

All my AR/AK/FAL/G3's are clones.

And so are my 1911's.

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:05:29 PM EDT

[#17]

I had one of those aluminum receiver HK91 clones. What a piece of shit. I sold it at a gun show and got me a SW3.

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:07:44 PM EDT

[#18]

No demand.

Civilian MP5's look like ass with a 16" barrel.

If you are going to have a 16" barrel it might as well be a rifle round.

Decent amount of G3 clones out there. There is just little demand for a MP5 clone - now if we didn't have any SBR laws I'd bet demand for MP5 clones, Thompson Clones, PS90's would all increase.

That and SMG's have fallen from disfavor in most professional capacities (no military really issues them anymore, nor to police forces for the most part) so that impacts the civilian side of things. They are no longer tacticool.

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:09:11 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I had one of those aluminum receiver HK91 clones. What a piece of shit. I sold it at a gun show and got me a SW3.

What is a SW3?

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:17:13 PM EDT

[#20]

why would two thousand dollar junk clones be selling like hotcakes if there were no demand.

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:17:27 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I had one of those aluminum receiver HK91 clones. What a piece of shit. I sold it at a gun show and got me a SW3.

What is a SW3?

A 91 clone from Bailey. They weren't bad. HK parts for the most part.

ETA - I like my JLD/Vector. I like the whole 90's series.

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:21:36 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I had one of those aluminum receiver HK91 clones. What a piece of shit. I sold it at a gun show and got me a SW3.

What is a SW3?

Special Weapons

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:22:30 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
why would two thousand dollar junk clones be selling like hotcakes if there were no demand.

Uh they are not.

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:27:41 PM EDT

[#24]

who has them in stock then

Posted: 12/3/2007 11:32:09 PM EDT

[#25]

it's all about accessorizing and custom-ability
how many different variations of ar's can you make, and for any purpose.
and parts are relatively simple to make and ar's are easy for the most part to assemble.

take a look at the roller action on a HK, plus not a high demand.
although my next SBR will be a .308 V51/G3 clone

Posted: 12/3/2007 11:38:43 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

www.allangreendale.net/dump/guns/hk.jpg

I'd swear I've seen cane fishing poles that look shorter than the barrel on that "carbine".

I think whoever makes the parts must charge rediculous prices, because the Hk's are obscene.

I might even touch one for $600. Not for $1200, or $3000 or more.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - what's the deal with firearm "clones"

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