Growing Popularity of 8.6mm (.338) Sniper Round

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Growing Popularity of 8.6mm (.338) Sniper Round

Posted: 10/10/2007 6:57:30 PM EDT

from:www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20071009.aspx

Growing Popularity of 8.6mm Sniper Round
October 9, 2007: The British Army is replacing most of its 3,000 7.62mm L96A1 sniper rifles with one modified to use the .338 (8.6mm) Lapua Magnum caliber round. The Accuracy International "Super Magnum" rifle is basically a L96A1 "Arctic Warfare" rifle modified to handle the larger, 8.6mm Lapua Magnum round. The new rifle (the L118A1) weighs 15 pounds (without a scope), is fifty inches long and has a 27 inch barrel and a five round magazine.

Snipers in Iraq, and especially Afghanistan, have been calling for a longer range round, but find the 12.7mm (.50 caliber) weapons too heavy. The .338 (8.6mm) Lapua Magnum round has an effective range (about 1,500 meters) about 50 percent greater than the 7.62mm standard NATO round. The 8.6mm round entered use in the early 1990s, and became increasingly popular with police and military snipers. Dutch snipers have used this round in Afghanistan with much success, and have a decade of experience with these larger caliber rifles. British snipers in Afghanistan are also using the new round.

Recognizing the popularity of the 8.6mm round, Barrett, the pioneer in 12.7mm sniper rifles, came out with a 15.5 pound version of its rifle, chambered for the 8.6mm.

Posted: 10/10/2007 8:39:03 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Is it bad that I usually fail to see the point of .338 Lapua ? Something like .300 Win Mag seems to make more sense to me.

Why?

Posted: 10/10/2007 8:45:27 PM EDT

[#2]

IIRC the 338 RUM is about 95% of the 338 Lap mag, and if you roll your own you can get brass for about 1/4 the cost-not to mention that loaded ammo isn't $4.25 a round, but on the flip side, if you can't reload you can't get match ammo for the RUM (at least I don't think you can)

Posted: 10/10/2007 8:56:16 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it bad that I usually fail to see the point of .338 Lapua ? Something like .300 Win Mag seems to make more sense to me.

Why?

Because .300 Win Mag takes advantage of the wide bullet selection available in .308 caliber and it is more readily available to civilians than the .338 Lapua. To me, the .338 Lapua seems like an oddball cartridge, though its' ballistics are noteworthy.

Then there's also the excellent 7mm Remington Magnum...

Posted: 10/10/2007 9:25:49 PM EDT

[#4]

So the .338 Lapua, which has better military bullet selection and was designed for the military is less suitable as a miltary cartridge?

This article wasn't discussing moose hunting. It ws discussing miltary sniping cartridges.

If they want to shoot paper they'd use 6XC. It's cheaper.

Sorry if I come off like a dick... but it's the heat for what they want to do.

Posted: 10/10/2007 9:31:31 PM EDT

[#5]

And when their supply system goes short of match ammo, the shooters who use .338 won't be able to use their rifles.

A .308 shooter can still used de-linked ball ammo from M240s.

Posted: 10/10/2007 10:00:23 PM EDT

[#6]

try using delinked M80 ball at 1,500 meters from your M24 and tell us how it works out for yah....

Posted: 10/10/2007 10:26:17 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
try using delinked M80 ball at 1,500 meters from your M24 and tell us how it works out for yah....

I was going to say the same thing.

Posted: 10/10/2007 10:54:06 PM EDT

[#8]

I think I'm going with 338RUM, it fits in the 700 action. YAY.

(I'm fully aware this has nothing the do with the OP, just adding to the dichotomy)

Posted: 10/10/2007 11:15:06 PM EDT

[#9]

I had a .308 sniper rifle, but i sold it because i didn't like how much bullet drop i was getting at longer ranges. I am going to get a .338 lupa mag sniper rifle next. From what i've read and heard it has a very good ballistics for long distance shooting. Next best thing is getting a .50BMG sniper rifle.

Posted: 10/11/2007 3:51:09 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
...........though not quite as interesting as an AR10 type in .338 Federal.

Yep.

5sub

You guys are welcome to try out my .338 Fed FAL.

The AR10 will be done in a couple of weeks.

Posted: 10/11/2007 7:08:53 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
...........though not quite as interesting as an AR10 type in .338 Federal.

Yep.

5sub

You guys are welcome to try out my .338 Fed FAL.

The AR10 will be done in a couple of weeks.

I might just have to take you up on that neighbor, who did the work and who made the barrels?

Posted: 10/11/2007 7:14:25 AM EDT

[#12]

My cousin says it worked well in Afghanistan in those wide-open spaces...

Posted: 10/11/2007 7:23:06 AM EDT

[#13]

No one likes the .338 Win? I have one, and it is an awesome long range rig.

Posted: 10/11/2007 7:27:00 AM EDT

[#14]

I do like the 338 Lapua due to its reach. Yea I know about the 50 cal but I don't plan on shooting up any vehicles anytime soon. I've been thinking hard and heavy about the 338 Lapua but the reaction at the range will be just like when I first went there and was shooting a 45. Most of the guys were surprised that an old hobbled grandmother would be punching holes in paper with such a large round. I guess its about time I share a little secret with you guys. Believe it or not I'm a recoil junkie.

Posted: 10/11/2007 7:35:40 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
try using delinked M80 ball at 1,500 meters from your M24 and tell us how it works out for yah....

Probably won't work well at all at 1500, but probably ok at 500. Certainly better than just dryfiring wish-bullets at the enemy because you're out of ammo.

I'm just sayin......

-K

Posted: 10/11/2007 7:56:29 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
try using delinked M80 ball at 1,500 meters from your M24 and tell us how it works out for yah....

Probably won't work well at all at 1500, but probably ok at 500. Certainly better than just dryfiring wish-bullets at the enemy because you're out of ammo.

I'm just sayin......

-K

Yep. I was trying to make that point earlier. It is an expensive round, which may make it difficult to obtain in quantity. I'd rather just deal with the weight and size of the .50 BMG, which has a wider variety of applications anyway.

There aren't very many people in this world who are capable of repeatable accuracy on a man-sized target at 1000 with a .308. Being accurate with anything at 1500 would require an exceptional shooter.

.338 Lapua is definitely a special-purpose caliber that is designed for one specific task. It would not be a good choice for a regular sharpshooter's rifle or DMR.

Generally, I think we have too many different cartridges floating around as it is. The last thing we need is a bunch of different types of rifle cartridge. Yes, I'm one of those guys who thinks cartridges like the .357 SIG and .40 S&W are kind of pointless too.

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:03:46 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
.338 Federal is interesting too.

5sub

Isn't the .338 Federal really intended as a hunting round suitable for deer through elk size game? I would guess that the .338 Fed. would have more drop and wind drift than its' parent cartridge...the .308Win. I like the idea of the .338 fed. for game, but don;t see how it would be any better than the .308Win. for long range antipersonnel use. Now the 260 Rem. is another matter.

dvo

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:08:06 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
No one likes the .338 Win? I have one, and it is an awesome long range rig.

It is a nice cartridge, but it won't push a 300 grain SMK at 2700 fps with a stiff load.

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:10:46 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
.338 Federal is interesting too.

5sub

Isn't the .338 Federal really intended as a hunting round suitable for deer through elk size game? I would guess that the .338 Fed. would have more drop and wind drift than its' parent cartridge...the .308Win. I like the idea of the .338 fed. for game, but don;t see how it would be any better than the .308Win. for long range antipersonnel use. Now the 260 Rem. is another matter.

dvo

Then there's also the 7mm Remington Magnum. That's a hell of a cartridge, and I find it to be remarkably easy to shoot, too.

To me, 7mm Rem Mag in a bolt rifle kicks less and is more accurate than .30-'06 out of an autoloader. When I first fired it, I was expecting "magnum" recoil, and I was pleasantly surprised.

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:13:16 AM EDT

[#20]

Anyone know the story on the .416 round that Barrett has created to surpass the .50BMG ballistically? Saw that on Futureweapons a few nights ago. I bet that will be an expensive cartridge to shoot.

dvo

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:24:32 AM EDT

[#21]

When did DMs start using bolt guns?

A friend of mine shot a 4.4 inch group at 1000 yards with an AWSM. The M24s were making 50/50 hits on iron maidens, and that was with proper ammo.

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:32:21 AM EDT

[#22]

The former SEAL sniper that hosts Future Weapons did a story on the .416 Rigby. He did a cold barrel shot at 2500 yards and hit 4" from the center of the target...1st shot. It took the active Marine sniper with the M107 at least 4 shots before he got that close to the center.

According to the sniper, the .416 was a much better round for long (2000+ yard) shots.

ETA: Actually, I'm not sure whether it was the .416 Rigby or a different .416 round. It was nothing short of amazing though. They guy was hitting COM on a man sized target at over a mile and a half on the first shot from a cold bore. Amazing!

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:33:55 AM EDT

[#23]

Hand loads, FTW. +1 on the RUM. I heart my RUM.
.338 Edge is 3.5% > .338 Lapua. And if you're rolling your own, why the heck not?

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:37:26 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
The former SEAL sniper that hosts Future Weapons did a story on the .416 Rigby. He did a cold barrel shot at 2500 yards and hit 4" from the center of the target...1st shot. It took the active Marine sniper with the M107 at least 4 shots before he got that close to the center.

According to the sniper, the .416 was a much better round for long (2000+ yard) shots.

I don't doubt the capabilities of that round, but on the dude and scenario, I gotta call *cough* *bullshit* *cough* After seeing how much that dude flinched when he was shooting some normal little fun stuff, I find it hard to believe that they set up the film set, he pulled that out, pegged a bull @ 2500 yards just like that.

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:37:43 AM EDT

[#25]

I'm sorry. For some strange reason I thought this thread was started to discuss the military uses of a military cartridge.

Yes, the Edge is cool. And the new Widcat bullet (300 gr. with a BC over 1.0) is kickass. But it's not going to enter service, and we all know it.

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:41:46 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
I'm sorry. For some strange reason I thought this thread was started to discuss the military uses of a military cartridge.

Yes, the Edge is cool. And the new Widcat bullet (300 gr. with a BC over 1.0) is kickass. But it's not going to enter service, and we all know it.

My bad, I thought they were talking about general popularity of the .338.

As far as military, I doubt availability would be an issue if it was adopted, since production lines would be specifically created to meet that demand.

Posted: 10/11/2007 8:41:56 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The former SEAL sniper that hosts Future Weapons did a story on the .416 Rigby. He did a cold barrel shot at 2500 yards and hit 4" from the center of the target...1st shot. It took the active Marine sniper with the M107 at least 4 shots before he got that close to the center.

According to the sniper, the .416 was a much better round for long (2000+ yard) shots.

I don't doubt the capabilities of that round, but on the dude and scenario, I gotta call *cough* *bullshit* *cough* After seeing how much that dude flinched when he was shooting some normal little fun stuff, I find it hard to believe that they set up the film set, he pulled that out, pegged a bull @ 2500 yards just like that.

The .416 rigby is not a flat shooting round. Possibly the .416 Remington, but even that is pretty slow. It was probably a wildcat round of some kind.