Man, 65, killed by police
The Martinez resident continued to threaten his son with a metal pipe, officers said
By Kristi Belcamino
CONTRA COSTA TIMES


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MARTINEZ -- Police shot and killed a 65-year-old man Saturday morning after he attacked his son with a metal pipe.

Police say officers were called about 9 a.m. to a house in the 400 block of Blue Ridge Drive to assist in a dispute between Ernest Donald Smith and his 39-year-old son. At the time, the son agreed to leave the house for the day, said Lt. Tom Simonetti.

About 10:15 a.m., officers were again called to the house. They found an agitated Smith threatening his son with a metal pipe. An officer ordered Smith several times to drop the pipe, but Smith ignored the orders and swung the pipe at his son. The officer, fearing for the son's safety, fired one shot, striking Smith in the upper torso, Simonetti said.

Smith was pronounced dead at the scene.

Police say in July, Smith had been arrested on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon after he allegedly struck a visitor at his home with a metal pipe.

Neighbors said arguments between Smith, known as "Donny," and his son, who did not live at the house, were common. It was not unusual to see police cars at the house, they said. One neighbor, who lives four houses away, said there had been a loud argument around 2 a.m. Saturday.

One neighbor, Joe Jose, 19, said Smith was a nice man. Growing up, Jose often brought his bicycle to him for help fixing a flat tire. Another neighbor, Coke Hill, said her late husband would turn to Smith for help with his car troubles.

The officer involved in the shooting was placed on routine paid administrative leave. Police have not yet released his name. The officer was new to Martinez's department, but had been hired with two years' experience in law enforcement.

The shooting is being jointly investigated by the Martinez Police Department and the District Attorney's Office.

In April, Martinez police shot and injured a 31-year-old man after he led them on a high-speed chase, crashed and then acted as if he was about to pull a weapon on pursuing officers.

The last fatal shooting involving Martinez police officers occurred Sept. 25, 1998, when a 25-year-old parolee drew a handgun and attempted to fire at undercover drug agents outside a Pittsburg Wal-Mart.

Quoted:
According to the article, the son did not live at the house. But, who knows, he may have been one of those kind of guys who moves in and out every two years.

But couldn't the son get out of his dad's way? I'm 39 myself and even in the degraded shape I'm in I'm pretty confident I could move out of the way and if not, block the blows a little. Old guys like that aren't known to move real fast.

Anyway, I don't have the entire story, but I'm leaning towards unneccessary use of deadly force. Hell, the guy wasn't 20 and carrying a sword for God's sake!

I hope I don't get flamed for second guessing the LEO.

Quoted:
I will try to help just a bit.

We all work inside our department's use of force policies.  There are two accepted use of force models that generally police departments follow.  The first allows the officer to use one weapon to deal with any situation.  Such as the PR 24, usually referred to single weapon philosophy.  The second model that is most often utilized and supported by a Supreme Court Ruling - says that an officer may use one level of force above what is being faced.

So in this case, a metal pipe is considered a deadly weapon.  The officer believed that the person's life was in danger; pipe being swung at person's head - high probability of serious bodily injury or death.  Thus the appropriate response is to use deadly force in return.  We as police officers have no duty to use lesser forms of force when dealing with a deadly force encounter.

Pepper Spray is often used very first if not very soon on use of force continum.  Why? Because of the low injury potential.  Pepper Spray is not 100% guarantee.  Most often an enraged person who is attacking will not feel the initial effects of the spray and/or become even more enraged and continue with their aggressive actions.

We are trained to shoot center mass.  It has the highest probability of stopping the assualt/encounter or whatever is the appropriate term.

I know that I am looking at this from the arm chair but it appears that this officer responded appropriately.

Does this help at all?

Quoted:
Do you people really think when this officer shot this man his intention was to kill him!? You seem to judge this situation based on two facts, 1. the suspect was older, and 2. the person who shot him was a cop. If there is one thing I know and practice, it's not judging someones actions unless you were there or know all of the facters leading up to the use of force. The man refused to comply and drop the pipe. Pepper spray is not an option, why, because you have to be within a few feet of the suspect to get a concentrated amount to the face. This would put the officer in danger of being hit with the pipe, resulting in serious injury or possibly death. The same goes for the baton, if the officer is close enough to deliver baton strikes, he is close enough to the suspect to be at risk of having his skull crushed with the pipe. Another thing, an officer is trained to shoot center mass, the largest target area. The officer fired where he is trained to fire in an attempt to stop the threat and keep the man from smashing the pipe into his son, not to kill him! The suspect unfortunatly died as a result of his injuries. The suspect determined the amount of force to be used by his actions. We should be mad at him for causing a son to lose his father, and a cop to have to go through years of self doubt, guilt and asking himself over and over "why me". And Stealth, a cop endures more bruises and scrapes in a month than someone like you will endure in you entire life. 99.9% of all cops ARE professionals and would run towards situations that would leave most people frozen in fear, or hauling ass the other way. I know this reply will get run through the grinder by some of you, but I'm sure there are more that would agree.

(I doubt you would call most of the officers I know Barney Fife, they're probley in twice the shape you are Platform.)          

Quoted:
It is hard to call after the fact and without all the information. But Police are drilled and  drilled in use of force. Also all the armchair  cops, unless you have been there, you just don't know. I used Pepperspray on a guy, he  ran 10 steps and turned and went at  me again. I had to use it again and  it takes up to 30 seconds to work. that is two lifetimes when  it happens to you. THere is muich more to this, remember how the media paints gunowners? Can we go only on their reporting?

Son was asked to leave at 9am, and agrees. What the EFF was he doing back at 10:15? And having a history of fighting with your father? What an ass.

Quoted:
 Anybody who follows the news these days knows,
that 2 commands given by the police "halt" and
"drop the weapon" supercede all constitutional
rights to due process.  

Quoted:
Main problem: Son wasn't supposed to be there.

Situation: Father was waving pipe at son that wasn't supposed to be there.

Solution: Ploice order son to get the F*&( out of the area.

Result: Father has no one to swing pipe at.

Nah, that would be too easy.

An individual has the right to protect someone else from great bodily harm by the use of lethal force.  Could a neighbor have shot this 65 yo man and call it justifiable homicide?/quote]

Yes. In most states, Police use of deadly force in defense of a another person is the same use of force that is allowed to any person.