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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:10:48 PM EDT
[#1]
No pitch, no party.
I vote my concience. Sometimes "R", sometimes "D", and very often "L". God how I wish Ron Paul represented Wisconsin. 
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:13:44 PM EDT
[#2]
I often vote R, I haven't voted for a D in many, many moons. The majority of the L's are a little to radical for my tastes so if there's not an R I like or a C running I'll just write Ted Nugent in and go home.
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:17:45 PM EDT
[#3]
R by default, not choice.
L or C is my preference |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:18:17 PM EDT
[#4]
So everyone is too lazy, too apathetic or finds themselves stuck in the same conundrum?
Afterall, we are getting inot deep doodoo and no one seems to have the answers, nor does anyone seem willing to provide the leadership. My personal opinion is that we are so far gone that only wiping the slate clean and starting over will solve any of the major issues that we are currently stuck with. However, since stareting the 3rd american revolution on my own seems a useless and unpalatable option, I would like to put some effort into building a party with more traditional values into a political powerhouse. Repubs? Betrayal is not something I EVER forgive Dems? Hahahahah Libertarians? Their stance on the border and immigration is enough to keep me from ever voting for them. Constitutionalists? Perhaps. A little preachy, heavy on the christian value thing but that is not all bad. Any reason not to vote for them or work for their Party? |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:21:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Sucks, don't it? |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:22:45 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm willing, as always, to make a fight of it. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:31:01 PM EDT
[#7]
I'll vote for a Republican President until a 3rd party can put up a viable cantidate.
I'm also going to vote for Rick Perry for governor of Texas and he is a Republican. He's a damn good one too! He's earned the respect of gun owners in this state by supporting every pro gun law that has come across his desk (including a law to allow Texans to carry pistols in their cars without a CHL) and he literally told the radical homosexuals that if they didn't like the laws in Texas that they should find another state more hospitable to their lifestyle (almost his exact words). I wish Rick Perry would run for President in 2008. I'd not only vote for him but I'd feel good about doing it. I may be inclined to vote for a 3rd party for lower offices, but I can't really say any bad things about the Republicans here in Texas. They have moved gun rights forward, fought off the radical gay agenda and Jerrymandered the Demonrats almost completely out of business. Yep, we got us a damn fine state here and the Republicans deserve some credit. Just too bad ain't no one built a wall on our side of the Rio Grande yet. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:32:00 PM EDT
[#8]
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?
Patty |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:34:50 PM EDT
[#9]
+1 lesser of 2 evils by very little anymore
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:38:17 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:42:10 PM EDT
[#11]
You are wrong Patty. The currently entrenched power structure works not for the people but for special interests. The entire thing is so corrupt that it can no longer be fixed before I am rotting in the grave. I cannot, will not, accept that. If I can get another party moving forward at this point I would consider it the greatest service I could do my nation other than overthrowing the current gov't by violent revolt.
The difference is so minimal that it is inconsequential. It is not a 2 party system, it is a 1 party system anymore. The only difference is who gets their fucking handout. That is completely intolerable IMO. 
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:42:52 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 3/17/2006 7:49:08 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:00:56 PM EDT
[#14]
How does anything I have said or done make me a hypocrite? I do not reward betrayal. To Hell with the Republican Party. They are the same as the Dems now and I find your view of the two party system simplistic at best. As for my vote in the next two upcoming elections I don't care that a Republican doesn't win. AFAIC they can lose every seat they hold currently. Suits me just fine. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:14:53 PM EDT
[#15]
In keeping with my statement here:
If I can get another party moving forward at this point I would consider it the greatest service I could do my nation other than overthrowing the current gov't by violent revolt. as well as others I have made, I would also like to encourage others to seek another party and to build a better nation if we can. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:17:22 PM EDT
[#16]
They are not the same.
The Democrats are socialists. The Republicans are fascists. You have a choice. Isn't democracy wonderful? If voting really changed anything it would be illegal. The Libertarians are probably the best we've got, they're a bit nutty, but a lot of that comes from being a fringe party, when they get serious they tend to abandon the nuttier positions, look at the move to change the platform this year.... |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:20:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Their platform on immigration is enough to ever keep me from voting for them. That really is the last straw AFAIC with the Republicans. I seriously do hope they lose every F'ing seat they hold. Every one. ETA: Oh, and BTW, I think both parties are fascist. And socialist now that I think about it. Same shit. 1 Party and they play us like a fiddle. One promises losers handouts and then the other tries to outdo them. Our current political system is completely broken and I fear it can no longer be repaired. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:28:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Perhaps the best thing to do is run for office instead of thinking that a violent overthrow of the .gov is something that would make this country a better place. Killing Americans is never a good idea to me.  We have an "overthrow" of our government every 4 years. Get you some.  That is how you step up to the plate and ATTEMPT to make a difference. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:30:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Well, what exactly have you done to fix the GOP? Assuming that is your desired political affiliation? |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:31:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Are you shitting me, fascist is a hell of a label to put on anybody...especially when it is bullshit |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:32:34 PM EDT
[#21]
The difference between Bush and Kerry in 2004 and between Bush and Gore in 2000 was quite dramatic in my opinion. In 2000 Gore wanted to institute a 1 gun per month program, a national gun registry, keep us in the International Criminal Court and expand the role of the US in UN "peacekeeping" missions. Bush opposed the ICC (pulled us out of it), opposed national gun registration, opposed additional gun control measures and lowered taxes. In 2004 Kerry wanted to pull our troops out of Iraq, raise taxes, increase the SS tax, increase medicare (or medicaide or whatever) and increase the role of the UN in "combating" terrorism. Bush is staying the course in Iraq, has not raised taxes, has not cowtowed to the UN and appointed what appear to be 2 conservatives to SCOTUS. Now don't get me wrong, I have problems with Bush. I'm not happy about the Prescription Drug Handout, I'm not happy about his police on immigration, I'm not happy about the $15 billion he has given to Africa to "fight" AIDS, I'm not happy about the hundreds of billions that he is pouring into the toilet that nature flushed and I am not happy about his voiced support for renewing the AWB. However, Bush has done good things for gun owners. He signed the law requiring information on NICS transactions to be destroyed within 24 hours of the transaction being completed (as opposed to the 90 days that they were retained previously) and he lobied for and got a pretty clean law to prevent frivilous lawsuits against gun makers. He's not everything that I had hoped for, but as a gun owner and a tax payer I can honestly say that I am better off today than I was 7 years ago. I have not forgotten the Clinton days. The power of government was being used against Americans to a far greater extent than it is today and we were moving towards losing our national sovergienty at a very rapid pace. I never want to see another Bill Clinton in office. If that means accecpting another George W Bush than I will do it with some bitching. However, if that means accecpting a Ruddy or a McCain then I agree that there is no difference between the Republicrats or the Demicans. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:40:58 PM EDT
[#22]
The borders issue has always been a bit of a joke, since all the serious candidates disavow it.
With all the disenfranchised paleoconservatives and so on fleeing the GOP there's a lot of new, more mainstream blood in the party recently. Borders is one of the issues where there is a drive to change the platform this year, basically the platform comittee wants to bring the platform into strict compliance with the constitution, the party membership will get a vote on that subject, I am hopeful because it would solve several problems I have with the platform myself. So long as the LP is the only party seriously talking about monetary reform it will be the party I'm rooting for, that's the cause IMO, everything else is just effect. I don't hold much hope for a peaceful restoration of the republic, or even a violent one. The population is too ignorant of the real issues, by design, and there aren't any solutions that don't involve pain. Politicians don't get elected by telling people the truth, but activism beats bitchin and moanin. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:41:40 PM EDT
[#23]
I have recently come to the exact same conclusions as the good doctor (didn't Newton and Leibniz invent calculus at around the same time and independent of each other?). I have informed my "representatives" (like they really "represent" me) in no uncertain terms that I will vote for Daffy Duck before I vote for either of the two major parties again. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:45:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Ya know, the more and more I think about it, the more and more it pisses me off people don't know their history. Look Fascism up in the dictionary or something would ya?  "Many political words are similarly abused. The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable." George Orwell |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:46:51 PM EDT
[#25]
fascism n.1 any system of government in which property is privately owned, but all industry and labor are regulated by a strong national government, while all opposition is rigorously suppressed. I give you the federal reserve system. You don't have to be a Nazi to be a fascist. Free market capitalism requires a free market for capital. Bullshit is what the GOP is feeding you and telling you is apple pie. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:50:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Google fascism and see how many Nazi reference you get compared to federal reserve system and then well talk. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:54:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Better yet, here is the real definition of fascists per Websters online dictionary
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:56:30 PM EDT
[#28]
"Many political words are similarly abused. The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable."
George Orwell Common perception means nothing. 99% of the population of this nation don't even know where money originates or how it is put into circulation. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:57:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Dude, nobody is using it as a proper noun but you. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:58:52 PM EDT
[#30]
There should be an option for NOTA*.
Don't like either guy? Vote NOTA. If NOTA gets more votes than either candidate, you start from scratch and NEITHER candidate is eligible to run the next time. * None Of The Above |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 8:58:55 PM EDT
[#31]
so that makes them fascist? You gotta do better than that
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Posted: 3/17/2006 9:00:11 PM EDT
[#32]
I agree |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 9:13:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Nah, bro, you are wrong. Okay, not so much wrong as Incomplete. The entrenched power structure is party blind. What you spend your precious vote on is the Almighty Issue. It might be more than one issue, but most folks feel very strongly about a single issue. The Demos and Repubs and Liberts and Constitutes are all pretty much the same, but how each individually deals with Your Issue is what counts. I will absolutely NEVER vote for a liberal, democrat or other candidate who is anti-gun. Never. Regardless of their views on ANY other topic or the views of their opponents on any other topic. If a candidate is anti-Second Amendment, they are dirt. I will always vote the pro-2nd candidate. I might make an exception if they're a radical extremist or fascist, but thats about it. Where does that leave me? Well, lets see, which party'ss candidates are against a literal interpretation of the second amendment in general. Why, its the Democrats! Guess I know where my vote is going. Don't vote against your rights. Don't vote for the most bigoted and intolerant bunch of bastards to come down the pike since Adolph and Company. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 9:22:27 PM EDT
[#34]
What they are, what they promote, what they do not seek to remedy, make them fascists. fascism is an economic model, like socialism, communism or capitalism, but none fit the current GOPs policies so well as fascism. I've already explained why they're not capitalists, despite all their protestations to the contrary. They are not however, Fascists, the proper noun signifying party membership in specific fascist parties, of which there are so few in history that it's practically synonymous with Nazism. The great irony in this arguement is I completely understand your position, fascism has become synonymous with Nazism, and that is the great tragedy of the situation. If we cannot recognize fascism when it is so blatantly staring us in the face, because it doesn't look like Nazism, then what are we to do? If I offend your sensibilities by using accurate terminology, rest assured I myself am far more offended when fascists are inaccurately described as capitalists. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 9:28:39 PM EDT
[#35]
If you love the American way of life, you will vote Republican.
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Posted: 3/17/2006 9:29:28 PM EDT
[#36]
I hate to throw off negative vibs here, but most of the time I'm voting AGAINST a candidate by voting for his opponent than actually voting FOR a candidate. The whole lesser of 2 evils thing. Sounds depressing, but it's all that I've got to offer in the way of advice.
One thing that I might point out, in case it's not already obvious to everyone here. Buy all the .50 BMG, evil looking killer rifles, military surplus ammo, etc that you want now. It may be too late if the Dems take control of both houses this November. Remember that GW had said that if the AWB made it to his desk to sign that he would do it. He's not our enemy, but he hasn't been our friend either. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 9:31:47 PM EDT
[#37]
I vote straight Libertarian, and the occasional Republican when there is no Libertarian in the race.
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Posted: 3/17/2006 9:43:56 PM EDT
[#38]
It was an easy statement to make, having a majority on his side. He knew it would never cross his desk. Its been pretty clearly demonstrated that President Bush made sure this bill would not survive. Being a savvy politician, however, Mr. Bush knows you make political hay while the sun shines. He could have said "If the AWB crosses my desk I'll declare that the moon is made of Green Cheese". It would have carried the same weight. In one of his first major policy changes from the abortive Klinton regime, GW's Justice Department formally announced that the Second Amendment constituted an individual right. Not our friend? I believe you need to rethink this position. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 9:56:38 PM EDT
[#39]
I'm a registered republican, because I can occasionally throw a vote to the better choice in a primary that way (can only vote in the primaries if you're registered in this state)
So don't take my comments as directed at anyone in particular. I vote republican when I can, when the candidate doesn't preclude it by word or deed which make it impossible for me to cast a vote for them in good conscience, which gets rarer every election it seems, both as the party veers farther and farther from the constitutional republican values I hold and as my own political understanding grows through study and reflection and I realize they've been lying (or just wrong) all along. I vote Libertarian when I can, when I determine that vote won't throw the election to the greater of evils or when there is no acceptable mainstream candidate with a chance to win, and once I even helped get one elected in a local race. The lesser of evils arguement is largely false however, in a two party system the vote is always nearly equally split, and if it is not one party or the other will change something to make it so. All the lesser of evils arguement does is give license to that party to be as evil as it wants so long as it's not quite so evil as the greater, and even then they have propaganda tools to ensure you believe the greater evil really is. That is the path into the abyss. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 9:58:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Yup, if there's one thing GWB is, it's a savvy politician. That's why his approval numbers are stuck in the 30s. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 10:10:34 PM EDT
[#41]
I see you cling to that discounted CBS poll where they queried 64% democrats. Right? Good move. ETA: Nice attempt at diversion, btw. Justice Department? Remember? Individual right? Friend or foe? Thats what the topic at hand is for the moment. Polls have -zilch to do with this thread. Carry on. Stay on topic. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 10:18:42 PM EDT
[#42]
"Government is at best a necessary evil." Therefore, voting is by definition a choice between the lesser of those evils.
Vote Republican. Work hard to make them reign in the immigration. Quit hoping for a revolution that you know damned well could not be won. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 10:28:49 PM EDT
[#43]
The most powerful nation in the history of the earth
The wealthiest nation in the history of the earth The healthiest nation in the history of the earth The free-ist nation in the histort of the earth Seems like anymore, everyone on this site just whines about high gas prices and some vague, unclear ramblings about "special interest" boogeymen. Go ahead and vote 3rd party...Ross Perot worked out great, didn't he? |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 10:29:49 PM EDT
[#44]
Clearly demonstrated by whom? And where? I have seen no proof of that at all. I remember what his father did and the kid is the same in most other ways from what I can see. I'll tell you this, if the AWBan had no sunset do you think he would have fought to repeal it? Yeah, that's my thought on it also. He still stood there and said he would knowingly violate the Const of the United States. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 10:31:47 PM EDT
[#45]
I'm going to. Either that or not at all. I am not voting for more of this Republican bullshit. 30 years of voting for them. Piss on 'em. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 10:37:04 PM EDT
[#46]
The 2nd is very important to me. So is: Border/illegals fiscal responsibility and smaller fed entitlements have got to go The last poster talked about how great and poweful and rich we are....I must live in the Land of Oz.... We are, of course, but what we are doing now is going to be terribly costly in the end. Socially, geopolitically, economically, etc. Where this country seems headed now is not somewhere I want to go, not something I want for my kids and grandkids. The politicians have fucked us and GWB as much as any of them. And all the while the rest of the Repubs march in lockstep. To hell with them. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 10:37:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Making moral statements brought the assault weapons ban and "don't ask, don't tell." Voting third party might make you feel like roses, kittens and sunshine inside...but in truth, it empowers the morons. Please, don't empower the morons... |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 10:39:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Reign it in??? Bud, have you been paying ANY attention at all.
Hell yes, it could be won. But even if it can't it might be worth it. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 10:41:24 PM EDT
[#49]
The morons are bleeding the rest of us dry as it is. Let them run the whole fucking thing into the ground and then see where they are at. I am dead serious. They can fucking starve and we'll all be better off. Them included. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 10:47:16 PM EDT
[#50]
That's exactly, and I mean word for word, what they said in the eighties when Japan was gonna buy New York and California. Remember? Our whole country was gonna be a suburb of Tokyo because the politicians were "running us into the ground." Quite relying on the lamestream media. All their predictions and reports will be fun to read five years from now when your stocks are worth more, the U.S. is more powerful abroad, and the R's are still in power. |
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