March 20, 2006

More than 8,000 have deserted since Iraq war began
1,455 Marines considered deserters at end of fiscal 2005

By Bill Nichols
USA Today

At least 8,000 members of the all-volunteer military have deserted since the Iraq war began, Pentagon records show, although the overall desertion rate has plunged since the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001.

Since fall 2003, 4,387 soldiers, 3,454 sailors and 82 airmen have deserted. The Marine Corps does not track the number of desertions each year but listed 1,455 Marines in desertion status last September, the end of fiscal 2005, according to Capt. Jay Delarosa, a Marine Corps spokesman.

Desertion records are kept by fiscal year, so there are no figures from the beginning of the war in March 2003 until that fall.

Some lawyers who represent deserters say the war in Iraq is driving more service members to question their service, and that the Pentagon is cracking down on deserters.

“The last thing they want is for people to think that this is like Vietnam,” said Tod Ensign, head of Citizen Soldier, an anti-war group that offers legal aid to deserters.

Desertion numbers have dropped since Sept. 11. The Army, Navy and Air Force reported 7,978 desertions in 2001, compared to 3,456 in 2005. The Marine Corps showed 1,603 Marines in desertion status in 2001; that had declined by 148 in 2005.

The desertion rate was much higher during the Vietnam era. The Army saw a high of 33,094 deserters in 1971 — 3.4 percent of Army troops. But there was a draft and the active-duty force was 2.7 million.

Desertions in 2005 represent 0.24 percent of the 1.4 million U.S. forces.

Opposition to the war prompts a small fraction of desertions, said Army spokeswoman Maj. Elizabeth Robbins.

“People always desert, and most do it because they don’t adapt well to the military,” she said.

The vast majority of desertions happen inside the United States, Robbins said. There is only one known case of desertion in Iraq.

Most deserters return within months, without coercion. Cmdr. Randy Lescault, spokesman for Navy Personnel Command, said that from 2001 to 2005, 58 percent of Navy deserters walked back in. Of the rest, most are apprehended during traffic stops. Penalties range from other-than-honorable discharges to death for desertion during wartime. Few are court-martialed.

More than 8,000 people that should be shot.

Quoted: More than 8,000 people that should be shot.

Hit the nail on the head.....

funny how there are so few airmen that desert compared to soldiers, sailors and marines?

Where the heck did these 8,000 people go???

Like that bastard who was hiding up here... finally got caught on one of his (many) visits to the USofA to visit family.  Last I heard he was facing a general court martial in the states

I somehow doubt the veracity of the report

Desertion numbers have dropped since Sept. 11. The Army, Navy and Air Force reported 7,978 desertions in 2001, compared to 3,456 in 2005. The Marine Corps showed 1,603 Marines in desertion status in 2001; that had declined by 148 in 2005.

"Desertions down since 2001" should've been the headline, gotta love the bias.

Kharn

Wow...how will the liberal gooffucks decide which of those 8000 to elect as POTUS in twenty years?!?!?!?!

Quoted: March 20, 2006 More than 8,000 have deserted since Iraq war began 1,455 Marines considered deserters at end of fiscal 2005

How did you get news 5 days in the future? Can you give me the lottery numbers for the next few days?

Quoted: Quoted: March 20, 2006 More than 8,000 have deserted since Iraq war began 1,455 Marines considered deserters at end of fiscal 2005 How did you get news 5 days in the future? Can you give me the WINNING lottery numbers for the next few days?

fixed it

Yep, I've got a cousin hiding in BC, Canada.

If I see him at a family thing, I'm calling the police

Wow...

Never had any idea that there were so many on a regualr basis.

I figured maybe a couple hundred a year total for all armed services....kinda hard to believe....I mean,to me that would be like divorcing your wife and leaving your kids because you were bored or  they were an imposition,or going bankrupt because you simply didn't want to pay your bills.

Sad that so many can't simply suck it up,live up to their word,then move on with their life.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: March 20, 2006 More than 8,000 have deserted since Iraq war began 1,455 Marines considered deserters at end of fiscal 2005 How did you get news 5 days in the future? Can you give me the WINNING lottery numbers for the next few days? fixed it

since when do the give out LOSING lottery numbers?

those numbers are not believeable...

Quoted: More than 8,000 people that should be shot.

I will be happy to take there place.

Edit: I would give anything to be there now.

Do you dipshits that are oggling the truthfullness of the report check the date?

You do know the 20th is 5 days from now..right?  

Figgin attention to detail Pyle

Anyone who was in the service knows this isn't uncommon.


The ratio of useless shitbird fuckups is the same in the military as it is in civilian life. The pussyness usually comes out early in basic and they're discharged right away tho...

Quoted: Do you dipshits that are oggling the truthfullness of the report check the date? You do know the 20th is 5 days from now..right?   Figgin attention to detail Pyle

Saw the same report last week. Now does that mean it's still truthfull? who knows.

I think there could be record keeping mix-ups mixed in all of this stuff.  Then there some people who joined the military that didn't really expect to really go to war, really.

The numbers are pretty darned believable to me, and I've only been in uniform for 24 years

First off:  I agree 100% with a previous poster that pointed out that the headline itself shows the media bias - it really should have been "Desertions Down Since 9/11"!!!!!!!


Secondly, IMO there's a whole other class of "deserters" that don't get any press at all, and they actually piss me off more than the guys (and gals) that go walking off and don't come back.   The ones that get me are the folks that sign on the dotted line and then spend most of their first enlistment finding an "out" instead of doing their duty.   Most of them end up with some sort of administrative discharge or another and are out of uniform before their contract is up.   I'm sure you've heard of the type:  hates the military "lifestyle" so they go to sick call three times a week, get themselves on every kind of physical profile known to man, even get put on medications for "depression."   These kinds of malcontents cost so many hundreds of NCO and Officer man-hours that I consider them far worse than the guys that honestly tell themselves they can't take it anymore and just walk off.

Quoted: Desertion numbers have dropped since Sept. 11. The Army, Navy and Air Force reported 7,978 desertions in 2001, compared to 3,456 in 2005. The Marine Corps showed 1,603 Marines in desertion status in 2001; that had declined by 148 in 2005. "Desertions down since 2001" should've been the headline, gotta love the bias. Kharn

I was just about to post that.  That is rediculous.

Also, IRT the date: if this article was sourced from a Military Times publication like Navy Times, Army Times ect. , the dates are of the actual day the issue hits the newstands, not when they were written.  You get them early if you subscribe via the internet.  

Quoted: 8000? Call me skeptical.

why?   it is a normal statistic-  it is in line with what has been reported in the past.

Quoted: funny how there are so few airmen that desert compared to soldiers, sailors and marines?

when the AF forms a few infantry divisions, I'm sure we'll see the desertion rates go up.....

Quoted: Quoted: Do you dipshits that are oggling the truthfullness of the report check the date? You do know the 20th is 5 days from now..right?   Figgin attention to detail Pyle Saw the same report last week. Now does that mean it's still truthfull? who knows.

Am I the only one with a pulse?



Hello?!

MCFLY?!

Sure...I'm sure it's truthfull, since they posted it a week before the date that it
actually is.  sure...What's not to doubt?  I mean, here we have another report of this
report a week ago.

Why not post your "news" a year out, so all the idiots get it?!  

Man...this is just great.

"News" 5 days out.

Can anyone give me traffic reports in Waco this weekend?

Quoted: Quoted: funny how there are so few airmen that desert compared to soldiers, sailors and marines? when the AF forms a few infantry divisions, I'm sure we'll see the desertion rates go up.....

Quoted: Quoted: funny how there are so few airmen that desert compared to soldiers, sailors and marines? when the AF forms a few infantry divisions, I'm sure we'll see the desertion rates go up.....

No, you wouldn't.  We tend to be smarter (I can show the numbers if you like) and know what we are getting into.  For the vast majority of us the recruiter doesn't seek us out, we seek them out.  We know we are the best of the four services, and no matter how bad it sucks, it sucks twice as bad for all those poor fucking grunts.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: funny how there are so few airmen that desert compared to soldiers, sailors and marines? when the AF forms a few infantry divisions, I'm sure we'll see the desertion rates go up..... No, you wouldn't.  We tend to be smarter (I can show the numbers if you like) and know what we are getting into.  For the vast majority of us the recruiter doesn't seek us out, we seek them out.  We know we are the best easiest of the four services, and no matter how bad it sucks, it sucks twice as bad for all those poor fucking grunts.

Sorry, had to do it. Something about combat or sea duty that moves people toward the Air Force.

Good Lord, can't any of you guys grasp the concept of a paper based publication that's printed a "week early" and that keeps the same dates on their on-line news web page.

The date of the publication has no bearing on the veracity of the report.

Drop your FIOA request to the Pentagon and I am sure you'll get the same numbers.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: funny how there are so few airmen that desert compared to soldiers, sailors and marines? when the AF forms a few infantry divisions, I'm sure we'll see the desertion rates go up..... No, you wouldn't.  We tend to be smarter (I can show the numbers if you like) and know what we are getting into.  For the vast majority of us the recruiter doesn't seek us out, we seek them out.  We know we are the best of the four services, and no matter how bad it sucks, it sucks twice as bad for all those poor fucking grunts.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: funny how there are so few airmen that desert compared to soldiers, sailors and marines? when the AF forms a few infantry divisions, I'm sure we'll see the desertion rates go up..... No, you wouldn't.  We tend to be smarter (I can show the numbers if you like) and know what we are getting into.  For the vast majority of us the recruiter doesn't seek us out, we seek them out.  We know we are the best easiest of the four services, and no matter how bad it sucks, it sucks twice as bad for all those poor fucking grunts.   Sorry, had to do it. Something about combat or sea duty that moves people toward the Air Force.

Well duh, of course its easier, physically.  We send our very well paid officers to get shot at while we go to the club, who's the dummy now?    I'll put my deployment days up against anybody of similar rank or service, I'm getting ready to head to Iraq for a year soon, when I am done with that I will have about 1800 days of deployments (and 3.5 years at remote locations).  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: funny how there are so few airmen that desert compared to soldiers, sailors and marines? when the AF forms a few infantry divisions, I'm sure we'll see the desertion rates go up..... No, you wouldn't.  We tend to be smarter (I can show the numbers if you like) and know what we are getting into.  For the vast majority of us the recruiter doesn't seek us out, we seek them out.  We know we are the best of the four services, and no matter how bad it sucks, it sucks twice as bad for all those poor fucking grunts.

....right there with you Adair......how long is AF basic training?....6 wks?  8?.....Marine Corps is 13 weeks of hell.....and we're the only ones who still shoot from the 500 yd line in boot to qualify with the service rifle.....They don't say Marines are the best shooters for nothing.....but I digress, don't mean to hijack the thread into another inter-service pissing contest......so back to this...

Quoted: I'm getting ready to head to Iraq for a year soon, when I am done with that I will have about 1800 days of deployments (and 3.5 years at remote locations).

Any of that done on board an aircraft carrier or in a hole in the dirt?  

Thanks for your service and stay ot of trouble!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: funny how there are so few airmen that desert compared to soldiers, sailors and marines? when the AF forms a few infantry divisions, I'm sure we'll see the desertion rates go up..... No, you wouldn't.  We tend to be smarter (I can show the numbers if you like) and know what we are getting into.  For the vast majority of us the recruiter doesn't seek us out, we seek them out.  We know we are the best of the four services, and no matter how bad it sucks, it sucks twice as bad for all those poor fucking grunts.

The only reason the AF doesn't dessert in bigger numbers is because their union contracts won't let them.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm getting ready to head to Iraq for a year soon, when I am done with that I will have about 1800 days of deployments (and 3.5 years at remote locations).   Any of that done on board an aircraft carrier no or in a hole in the dirt? yes Thanks for your service and stay ot of trouble!

Bosnia (2x), Hungary (2X) living with the Army.  

You're welcome, and I will.  

Why would I want to get on a carrier, little tiny bunks and not enough whores women?    I wish I got sea pay (or jump pay) or all the other BS pays everybody else seems to get.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: funny how there are so few airmen that desert compared to soldiers, sailors and marines? when the AF forms a few infantry divisions, I'm sure we'll see the desertion rates go up..... No, you wouldn't.  We tend to be smarter (I can show the numbers if you like) and know what we are getting into.  For the vast majority of us the recruiter doesn't seek us out, we seek them out.  We know we are the best of the four services, and no matter how bad it sucks, it sucks twice as bad for all those poor fucking grunts.   The only reason the AF doesn't dessert in bigger numbers is because their union contracts won't let them.

Be nice or I'll report you to my shop steward!  

Quoted: ... Well duh, of course its easier, physically.  We send our very well paid officers to get shot at while we go to the club, who's the dummy now?   ...

The sad thing is, you use that a selling point, and still fail to understand the disdain other services have for you.  That is an insurmountable cultural hurdle.

If I wanted to send others off to fight while going to "the club," I would have gone into politics.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm getting ready to head to Iraq for a year soon, when I am done with that I will have about 1800 days of deployments (and 3.5 years at remote locations).   Any of that done on board an aircraft carrier no or in a hole in the dirt? yes Thanks for your service and stay ot of trouble! Bosnia (2x), Hungary (2X) living with the Army.   You're welcome, and I will.   Why would I want to get on a carrier, little tiny bunks and not enough whores women?    I wish I got sea pay (or jump pay) or all the other BS pays everybody else seems to get.

you don't see your pay????...........seriously though.......stay safe!

.

Quoted: Do you dipshits that are oggling the truthfullness of the report check the date? You do know the 20th is 5 days from now..right?   Figgin attention to detail Pyle

This coming from somebody who can't spell or use grammar correctly.

Desertions are lower now than before 9/11 when we were at peace, but USA Today presents it as something bad.

Why couldn't they have explaineded how 8000 is a low point from the beginning?  Like perhaps "Desertions at 5 year low despite war" or something?

I have absolutely no idea why they'd try to suggest desertions were at a high level in their headline and lede, only to contradict the impression deeper into the article

Actually this is simply a hit-piece against the war.  Nothing more.  Here's my take:

As already stated, the number of desertions is actually down, but here is the tricky part:  They don't list any particular reasons for desertion.  Notice how the navy is so high?  Sailors actually have the lowest chance of actually being in combat.  This is not a naval war.  Possibly a few desert as an act of protest against the war, but most are just chickenshits who want to leave the navy early.  The army probably has the highest number because it's the largest branch.

THis article is nothing more than an editor reading a statistic, Thinking "wow, this could hurt support for the war" and having a reporter type up an article.  I also like the headline.  Nothing but spin, spin, spin.

What blows me away is what people are willing to give up to desert.  The life of a disenfranchised fugative is the death of a thousand cuts.  Even if they are not caught up with, that is too much of your life spent avoiding a far shorter period of service.  Good riddance.

From my 20 years experience in the Air Force, most desertions I saw were related to the individual being involved in on or off duty criminal activities and/or drug use problems.

Is what bad about this acticle is its begging the argument. Saying there are Desertions becuase of the war in Iraq. When really there are not that many in compared to previous years. Is it a real acticle I dont know. But The article does not say much.

Lots of reasons for desertion. " Because of the war " is just a lame excuse, mostly as stated it is because the person is doing drugs, involved in criminal activities ( gangs etc ) or found a sweet piece of Pie and runs away to be with the love of thier life trailer park whore..

Hell in our guard unit guys just stop coming to drill and after about a year of please pretty please come back and drill & three nasty grams and maybe a pulled stripe they get a General Discharge and are out free ..

Military desertion rate down during Bush tenure.



There's a headline that you won't see.

Any of that done on board an aircraft carrier or in a hole in the dirt?

And your point is?

I get seasick and got burned out on camping in the boy scouts.

Joining any service except the Air Force sounds like self-flagellation to me.

Different strokes......

Quoted: Lots of reasons for desertion. " Because of the war " is just a lame excuse, mostly as stated it is because the person is doing drugs, involved in criminal activities ( gangs etc ) or found a sweet piece of Pie and runs away to be with the love of thier life trailer park whore.. Hell in our guard unit guys just stop coming to drill and after about a year of please pretty please come back and drill & three nasty grams and maybe a pulled stripe they get a General Discharge and are out free ..

And that right there is why the rate stays pretty constant.  The discipline in the military got very lax in my last years in the service.  If the dirtbags see that they are going to get their way.....