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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:21:53 PM EDT
[#1]
.45
Just because |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:23:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Define "stopping power" please. (I'm not sure it's a simple as purely kinetic energy either  )
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:23:50 PM EDT
[#3]
.45acp is the tactical nuclear weapon of personal defense
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:24:19 PM EDT
[#4]
The one you are more accurate with will give you better stopping power.
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:24:43 PM EDT
[#5]
A .45 will put a hole the size of a man hole cover in you. It will literally knock a man off his feet.
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:24:44 PM EDT
[#6]
good point... he says the 10mm is way more powerful than the .45, which is bs to me... |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:24:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Full power
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:25:59 PM EDT
[#8]
10mm (regular/full power) has more energy than any .45acp
.45acp for PEOPLE 10mm for animals 10mm is like an auto magnum which would i rate as having more "stopping power"? 10mm h/w, top loads are just a tad too much for PD/SD on people, so i carry the .45acp |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:26:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Even if you shoot him in the tip of his pinkie finger, even! 
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:27:04 PM EDT
[#10]
just because 45 is a bigger number than 10 
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:27:31 PM EDT
[#11]
He might be trying to say that it is more energetic - which you could roughly calculate by mutliplying bullet weight and velocity for each round, and see which is greater. But, I think how much of that energy is TRANSFERRED to the target is part of what "stopping power" probably means, and that may depend on other factors - like for instance the larger cross section of the .45 I remember part of the marketing for the CorBon 400 was that it was very fast (i.e. high energy) but was supposedly able to "dump" a lot of its energy on impact. Don't know how true that is. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:28:23 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:28:32 PM EDT
[#13]
According to a Canadian gun owner the .45 is the 12" artillery of personal handguns....capable of blowing bodies back 50 feet.
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:28:35 PM EDT
[#14]
I'd say that the 10mm generates more energy, but may not transfer as much to the target. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:28:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Probably the 10mm with the right loads. IE a FMJ round will zip right through the target, where a good 10 mm HP will hit real hard.
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:30:11 PM EDT
[#16]
10mm has around 200 ft/lbs more muzzle energy, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is a better man stopper.
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:30:20 PM EDT
[#17]
exactly, the transference of energy is by far the equation which means more to stopping power to me than energy velocity... |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:31:27 PM EDT
[#18]
I think I am confused. Are you saying the 10mm would exit the otherside of whatever it hits? Because if they both stay in the target and do not exit, because the 10mm started with more energy than the .45, more energy would be transferred to the target. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:33:20 PM EDT
[#19]
10mm Norma...
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:33:20 PM EDT
[#20]
if you go 45+p against a 10mm then I'll go with 45, if non +p then I'll go with the 10mm
same gr of bullet 10 MM AUTO 165 GR. JHP 1250FPS/537FTLBS 45 AUTO +P 165 GR. JHP 1250FPS/573FTLBS the 45 can go heavier 45 AUTO +P 185 GR. JHP 1150FPS/543FTLBS 45 AUTO +P 200 GR. JHP 1050FPS/490FTLBS 45 AUTO +P 230 GR. JHP 950FPS/461FTLBS (what I carry, and have seen what it will do to living things) |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:34:18 PM EDT
[#21]
10mm is a bad mofo.
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:36:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Not true. Its all about the wound channel. The one that goes in at the diameter of hte bullet and goes out the size of a softball is the one with more stopping power. The one the goes in and opens up and rips tissue is the one that has more stopping power. Again, its not about transferring the energy into the taget. Its about damage done to tissue. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:36:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Interesting thread. I will relate my ONLY experience with the 10mm.
In 1994 I took a tour of our agencies' criminal ballistics center. During the tour, the head weapons specialist showed us the water "trap" they use to shoot a particular weapon into, in order to retrieve the round for evidential purposes. He told us that the only round to go through the whole tank of water (about 5-6 feet down?), and through the metal "catch" basket, was a 10mm round. He showed us the hole in the basket. He also stated that the only handgun round to go through our issue vests was the 10mm, at that time. Just my .02, fwiw. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:39:36 PM EDT
[#24]
I am glad that the above poster mentioned a vest. Its a good example of why transferance of energy is does not equao stopping power.
Take 12 OO buck. Fire into a person wearing a vest and while 100% of the energy is absorbed into the vest and the person wearing it, not tissue damage was done. Take off the vest and repeat. CH |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:46:45 PM EDT
[#25]
but without the transference, then there would be no wound channel... |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:49:38 PM EDT
[#26]
10mm Automatic
Winchester 175 gr. Super-X® Silvertip® Hollow Point Muzzle Velocity- 1290fps Muzzle Energy-649 I love the .45, but it ain't gonna top numbers like that. As for an energy transfer, this load was noted by one tester for it's unique tendancy to consitentley break the plates he used to hold ballistic gelatin. THAT is an energy dump! |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:50:23 PM EDT
[#27]
10mm for wildlife
.45 for people... people just arent deep enough for all the penetration that 10mm gives |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:53:07 PM EDT
[#28]
I have seen real human bodies hit with both.
I don't know the loads or bullet types, The .45 has fewer exit rounds in my experiance but when they did they were larger, was one more deadly then the other, well the .45 wound was harder to handle in non leathal hits. In lethal hits, they were both dead so it did not make a dif. If there was not an exit wound, it was all pucker factor because you had no idea what was hit. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:56:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Thus the reason I moved from ACP to Supers, Supers have those numbers, plus a bit. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:56:47 PM EDT
[#30]
I wouldn't want to be shot with either.
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:02:20 PM EDT
[#31]
trying to compare apples to apples
10mm Automatic 175 gr. Super-X® Silvertip® Hollow Point 1290fps, 647ft/lbs 45 Automatic 185 gr. Super-X® Silvertip® Hollow Point 1000fps, 411ft/lbs now for everyone that doesnt know. 10mm is 0.39" thats .06" smaller then the .45. thats about 1/16th. you judge for yourself, identical type of bullet, 290fps faster, 236ft/lbs more energy, 1/16" smaller hole. stopping power is a bs term. you hit a guy with a 45 in the arm or you hit the guy in the chest, they will have two completly different affects. you hit a guy with a 10mm in the chest will have two completly different affects if that guy where drunk/stoned. bullet type and shot placement are the most critical. id rather put a .22 in some guys head before a 45 in the arm or a 10 in the leg. i vote for 10mm i think both rounds are great for personal protection. use what youre comfortable with. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:05:30 PM EDT
[#32]
k, say you hit the guy in the arm... |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:06:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Double Tap gold dot, even closer bullet size: 180gr. @ 1300fps/ 676ft/lbs- ouch! |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:09:58 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:17:42 PM EDT
[#35]
both im assuming will rip right though. the 10mm entry wound will be 1/16" smaller. exit wound, who knows. both cases the guy wont have much of a functional arm left. this is just a revised version of 9mm vs 45. pointless and impossible to argue one way or the other. so many factors to consider, i just hope none of us need to find out first hand. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:18:44 PM EDT
[#36]
how are you doing that comparing a magnum round to one that is not, a fairer comparison is a 45+p to a magnum round |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:25:40 PM EDT
[#37]
10MM Magnum is a heavy duty, lengthened 10MM Auto. O.A.L. of 1.250 CANNOT BE USED IN STANDARD 10MM PISTOL |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:29:00 PM EDT
[#38]
.45 gets my vote
there is to many over thinkers here. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:29:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Either of them with bullets designed to do their job at their respective velocities are quite effectively, probably to the point of being equal, at least in my eyes.
there are pros and cons to each, and not enough advantage to either to call one better than the other. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:39:03 PM EDT
[#40]
exactly like every other reasonable round comparison. it ussually always come down to shot placement in my eyes. i could find any combination id be comfortable carrying. although illinois has taken care of that problem for me anyways, so why worry |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:44:19 PM EDT
[#41]
I'd have to agree with Cape_hunter on this. Energy transference doesn't matter nearly as much as fragmentation. Granted one must have a certain minimun energy to carry the bullet through the body. However, if one bullet fragments more causing a bigger wound channel then that's the better round. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:47:50 PM EDT
[#42]
there is no such thing as 'stopping power'
10mm has more energy than a .45. they both suck because no matter how powerful you load 'em... they are still pistols and let's face it, pistols suck for shooting things. Compare the above info to the 5.56 55gr FMJ going 3240fps delivers energy of 1280 |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:50:18 PM EDT
[#43]
But if that's all you've got... |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:52:24 PM EDT
[#44]
The one that makes the biggest wound channel wins
it just depends on how the bullet acts with each one most everything from 9mm up with good placement will kill you pretty dead |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:53:33 PM EDT
[#45]
As close as possible bullet weights of the same design in a standard commercially available cartridge, in similar pistols for similar applications, as opposed to comparing a velocity light hollowpoint to a heavy slow FMJ. Or throwing a .44 magnum 8" as a comparison. I happen to prefer 185 jhp in my 45 compared to 230 grn fmj if I was to ever carry.  . So these figures make the 10mm look like a viable alternative.But I'm not going to rush right out and buy one. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:54:54 PM EDT
[#46]
I would also consider a 45 super to be more comparable. You can fire the Super from any quality 45acp pistol anyhow. It will beat the crap out of it but so will hot 10mms. This is from Buffalo Bore with a .45 super loading they offer. It's a 230gr JHP. Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps Muzzle Energy: 618 ft. lbs This is the buffalo bore 185gr JHP Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps Muzzle Energy: 694 ft. lbs. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:56:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Glock G20 is made to handle the hot 10mm rounds |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:58:12 PM EDT
[#48]
I'm just saying, if you are looking for a defensive firearm stop arguing ballistics on the internet and buy a real gun. you know a person shot with a handgun in the US only has a 5% chance of dying? that is how effective they are. 
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Posted: 1/16/2006 11:02:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Tsk, tsk, hot 10 mm and Tupperware, can you say, hand grenade? 
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Posted: 1/16/2006 11:04:50 PM EDT
[#50]
im not leaning one way or the other, i dont have a 10mm just because i dont care for paying premium ammo prices. that or having as many possible choices in bullet types. 10mm numbers obviously look promissing, there is a reason why the fbi initially chose that round. its not the 10mm fault that woman and dandies with small hands couldnt qualify with it. |
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