Date: New Year's Eve

Location:  Laguardia Airport, New York, NY

Airline: American Airlines

Items:  Interarms Mark X .30-06 and M1 Carbine

Ammo: 250 rounds of .30-06 and 100 rnds of .357 Magnum in a 30cal ammo can (in checked luggage)



Packed up the two rifles in a rifle case, locked it up and used masking tape to secure the latches.

Walked up to counter, told them I had two rifles in the case and ammo in my bag.

“Ok, sign this tag and place in rifle case”, "Please show me the ammo" (They just want to make sure it is secure, I thought this big 30cal ammo can would create bugeye, but not even a funny face).

(Had to open up everything I had securely packed )

Tag said ‘Unloaded firearms’ about 3in x 5in card, sign, date, flight number

Go over to TSA security area.  My bag was opened, ammo can removed and checked, placed back in my bag and off it went

Rifle case set aside and had to wait for NYPD.  Checked serial numbers with headquarters.  Asked how I got them, told him and gave him Dad’s address in Scarsdale (permit required for long guns in the NYC and the Five Boroughs by the way).  Also before opening he asked if there were any handguns or ammo in the case (no).  Never asked for any paperwork.

I went into security area, locked it back up, and off it went on its own cart, with its own TSA agent to onload onto plane.

In Miami my bag and the rifle case were within the first 10 items onto the carousel.  I thought someone would bring the case out to me, but there it was just cruising along.

All in all, piece of cake.

Dont get used to it being like that....

Quoted: Date: New Year's Eve Location:  Laguardia Airport, New York, NY Airline: American Airlines Items:  Interarms Mark X .30-06 and M1 Carbine Ammo: 250 rounds of .30-06 and 100 rnds of .357 Magnum in a 30cal ammo can (in checked luggage) Packed up the two rifles in a rifle case, locked it up and used masking tape to secure the latches. Walked up to counter, told them I had two rifles in the case and ammo in my bag. “Ok, sign this tag and place in rifle case”, "Please show me the ammo" (They just want to make sure it is secure, I thought this big 30cal ammo can would create bugeye, but not even a funny face). (Had to open up everything I had securely packed ) Tag said ‘Unloaded firearms’ about 3in x 5in card, sign, date, flight number Go over to TSA security area.  My bag was opened, ammo can removed and checked, placed back in my bag and off it went Rifle case set aside and had to wait for NYPD.  Checked serial numbers with headquarters.  Asked how I got them, told him and gave him Dad’s address in Scarsdale (permit required for long guns in the NYC and the Five Boroughs by the way).  Also before opening he asked if there were any handguns or ammo in the case (no).  Never asked for any paperwork. I went into security area, locked it back up, and off it went on its own cart, with its own TSA agent to onload onto plane. In Miami my bag and the rifle case were within the first 10 items onto the carousel.  I thought someone would bring the case out to me, but there it was just cruising along. All in all, piece of cake.

Glad you posted this, I am planning on flying home with my new EAA Witness P, but was a little reluctant with bringing it on the plane for fear of too much hassle.

-Ben

You're lucky it didn't get delayed and delivered to some random person's hotel room.

ETA see my post here

Ive never had a problem flying with checked handguns,  rifles, and/or ammo.   Just required an extra step.

But theu do get a little freaky about loaded magazines ib the cases with the guns,  

glad you had a good experience

I fly with my ARs all the time. No issues.

Follow the rules and you will never have a problem.

A sidenote about handguns:

A permit is required to OWN one in NY state (yes, anywhere in the state).  So if you check a handgun at an airport in NY make sure you have that permit!

Otherwise [Darth Vader breathing] ....

You should try that with a 50 BMG rifle.
Never fails, "OMG what the fuck kind of cannon is that" at the top of their lungs.

Doesn't flying with firearms really make your arms sore?

I flew with my carry piece a few months ago. Even less hassle than above. The only real difference was that the carrier restricted the amount of ammo to something like 11 pounds. I think it has to do with limiting the amount of potential flammable/explosives on board. Loaded mags are not ok, except when placed in a device which caps the end such as a mag holder. I believe the idea there is to make sure ammo is securely contained, thus the container requirements.

Quoted: You should try that with a 50 BMG rifle. Never fails, "OMG what the fuck kind of cannon is that" at the top of their lungs.

I'm willing to borrow yours for a while


edit:  ya know, for the children

Quoted: I flew with my carry piece a few months ago. Even less hassle than above. The only real difference was that the carrier restricted the amount of ammo to something like 11 pounds. I think it has to do with limiting the amount of potential flammable/explosives on board. Loaded mags are not ok, except when placed in a device which caps the end such as a mag holder. I believe the idea there is to make sure ammo is securely contained, thus the container requirements.

This is correct...
The IATA Regulations on Dangerous Goods states 11 Lbs in factory container may be accepted with checked bags. Container means box the ammo came in when you bought it.


The Regs do not mention magazines. If the Regs don't state it... don't do it. These Regs are very scpecific and consise.

When I get back to work I will post the exact quotes for all...

Quoted: Quoted: I flew with my carry piece a few months ago. Even less hassle than above. The only real difference was that the carrier restricted the amount of ammo to something like 11 pounds. I think it has to do with limiting the amount of potential flammable/explosives on board. Loaded mags are not ok, except when placed in a device which caps the end such as a mag holder. I believe the idea there is to make sure ammo is securely contained, thus the container requirements. This is correct... The IATA Regulations on Dangerous Goods states 11 Lbs in factory container may be accepted with checked bags. Container means box the ammo came in when you bought it. The Regs do not mention magazines. If the Regs don't state it... don't do it. These Regs are very scpecific and consise. When I get back to work I will post the exact quotes for all...

Well, the ammo (with can) was twenty lbs and was totally available for weighing and whatever else they wanted to do.  Yet they stuck back in my bag and off it went.

Quoted: A sidenote about handguns: A permit is required to OWN one in NY state (yes, anywhere in the state).  So if you check a handgun at an airport in NY make sure you have that permit! Otherwise [Darth Vader breathing] ....

Interesting. So, NY is not a part of the Union anymore?

I got my info from the TSA page from which I quote:

Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).

I have travelled with firearms quite a bit over the years.  Other than Atlanta, where the local TSA thugs from the tried to steal the case, no problems.  I had to call the Atlanta PD,FBI and AFT to get the damned thing back.  It had passed inspection, three hours before flight, locked and ready to go, then the TSA thug gets off shift, comes out to the plane and removed it from the luggage cart while we watched.  If he could have got it out to his car it would have been gone.

It took threats to alert the media that local TSA thugs were robbing military members of weapons and the help of the airport police to get it returned.  TSA was not helpful in any way, shape or form. Other than to claim he "removed it for re-inspection".  Apparently, they "re-inspect" in their personal automobiles in Atlanta.  They "re-inspect" anything valuable, including computers, jewelery, guns and expensive clothes.  Atlanta has a very agressive "re-inspection program".

TSA is different than IATA. All Airlines Follow IATA.

Ammunition (cartridges for weapons) for sporting purposes, securely boxed (in Division 1.4S), in quantities less than 5 kg (11 lb) gross weight per person for that person's own use, excluding ammunition with explosive or incendiary projectiles. Allowances for more than one passenger must not be combined into one or more packages.

Boxes in "Division 1.4S" is IATA speak for Factory Container or box that meets IATA requirements for shipping Dangerous Goods. (Division 1.4S is for all ammunition)

The moron who allowed that twenty pound ammo can risked a major fine from the FAA/TSA/IATA if it was caught and you would have received a phone call from the FAA/TSA for exceeding the limit.
Trust me... I have turned in more cargo violating FAA/IATA Rules than you can shake a stick at.

I like my Airline and I don't want it to be fined because somebody did something that they shouldn't have. If that person who allowed that worked for me I would have done some major corrective action for that.

Think before you check shit in your baggage. Remember YOU are flying on that plane also!

IATA Checked Baggage Checklist

The amount of ammo seems to varry by airline.  Alaska let me carry a can of M1 '06 on clips.  Just had to weigh less than 40 or 50 lbs.

In San Antonio, you feel out of place if you don't have a rifle case as part of your checked baggage during hunting season.

Quoted: The amount of ammo seems to varry by airline.  Alaska let me carry a can of M1 '06 on clips.  Just had to weigh less than 40 or 50 lbs.

I can't vouch for other airlines....
AA follows IATA and IATA says, 11 pounds, as I posted above.

www.alaskaair.com/www2/help/faqs/SportRelatedItems.asp

Ammunition—up to 50 lbs.(domestic) and 11 lbs. (international - where permitted) may be checked, if securely packed in the original manufacturer's package or in a container designed for ammunition and of sufficient strength to protect it from accidental crushing or discharge (i.e. wood, fiber, plastic, or metal). The projectile must be no larger than 11/16" in diameter, the size of a dime. Ammunition may be checked with or separately from the firearm.

Quoted: TSA is different than IATA. All Airlines Follow IATA. Ammunition (cartridges for weapons) for sporting purposes, securely boxed (in Division 1.4S), in quantities less than 5 kg (11 lb) gross weight per person for that person's own use, excluding ammunition with explosive or incendiary projectiles. Allowances for more than one passenger must not be combined into one or more packages. Boxes in "Division 1.4S" is IATA speak for Factory Container or box that meets IATA requirements for shipping Dangerous Goods. (Division 1.4S is for all ammunition) The moron who allowed that twenty pound ammo can risked a major fine from the FAA/TSA/IATA if it was caught and you would have received a phone call from the FAA/TSA for exceeding the limit. Trust me... I have turned in more cargo violating FAA/IATA Rules than you can shake a stick at. I like my Airline and I don't want it to be fined because somebody did something that they shouldn't have. If that person who allowed that worked for me I would have done some major corrective action for that. Think before you check shit in your baggage. Remember YOU are flying on that plane also! IATA Checked Baggage Checklist

I did.  


edit:  I had another ammo can (.50cal) with 350 rnds of .223.  You know what I did with that one right?
I left it at the house in NY.  Why?  Because I thought I about it first.  And God said only the .30cal so that was it anyway .

Quoted: www.alaskaair.com/www2/help/faqs/SportRelatedItems.asp Ammunition—up to 50 lbs.(domestic) and 11 lbs. (international - where permitted) may be checked, if securely packed in the original manufacturer's package or in a container designed for ammunition and of sufficient strength to protect it from accidental crushing or discharge (i.e. wood, fiber, plastic, or metal). The projectile must be no larger than 11/16" in diameter, the size of a dime. Ammunition may be checked with or separately from the firearm.

That is pretty cool.  


The AA site had no hard/fast numbers.

Firearms and Ammunition may not be carried by a passenger on an aircraft. However, unloaded firearms may be transported in checked baggage if declared to the agent at check in and packed in a crush-proof container manufactured specifically for the firearm or a hard-sided suitcase. Firearms must be in a locked container. Properly packaged small arms ammunition for personal use may be transported in checked luggage.

Alaska Airlines required my ID to claim a gun case....did yours really just come out on the belt? In Miami??

Quoted: Alaska Airlines required my ID to claim a gun case....did yours really just come out on the belt? In Miami??

Yep.  I was waiting for someone to bring it out to me (but I'm standing at the conveyor thing anyway) and I see it coming along.  It was a plain dark tan case with no markings of any type indicating anything special.  Probably thought it was a guitar case actually.

My understanding is that the airlines (nor anyone else) is allowed to mark it "Contains firearms" or anything similar to that.



edit:  I had a camera phone too!!  Too bad I didn't get a pic of that thing just cruising along!

Gunshine State

Yes the AA web site is not clear. It does refer you to the TSA web site for more information
TSA says...

Can I take it?
Carry-on Checked
Guns and Firearms
Ammunition - Check with your airline or travel agent to see if ammunition is permitted in checked baggage on the airline you are flying. If ammunition is permitted, it must be declared to the airline at check-in.  Small arms ammunitions for personal use must be securely packed in fiber, wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.    Ask about limitations or fees, if any, that apply.

That does not say much either... If you call and ask a AA rep, they should tell you the limit as I am telling you the limit.

AA follows the IATA regs. Limited to 11 pounds of ammo in checked bags.

Trust me, I have been working in Cargo at AA for 17 years, I know the rules, I will not steer you wrong. I can't help it if morons at the ticket counter are accepting more than 11 pounds. I am sharing with you the rules/regs for AA. If you want to try to beat the system and bring more that is on you and you risk the fine.

.

Quoted: Yes the AA web site is not clear. It does refer you to the TSA web site for more information TSA says... Can I take it? Carry-on Checked Guns and Firearms Ammunition - Check with your airline or travel agent to see if ammunition is permitted in checked baggage on the airline you are flying. If ammunition is permitted, it must be declared to the airline at check-in.  Small arms ammunitions for personal use must be securely packed in fiber, wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.    Ask about limitations or fees, if any, that apply. That does not say much either... If you call and ask a AA rep, they should tell you the limit as I am telling you the limit. AA follows the IATA regs. Limited to 11 pounds of ammo in checked bags. Trust me, I have been working in Cargo at AA for 17 years, I know the rules, I will not steer you wrong. I can't help it if morons at the ticket counter are accepting more than 11 pounds. I am sharing with you the rules/regs for AA. If you want to try to beat the system and bring more that is on you and you risk the fine.

As previously stated, I hid nothing and declared everything.  They were free to confiscate.

Quoted: Alaska Airlines required my ID to claim a gun case....did yours really just come out on the belt? In Miami??

I about shit a kitten when I saw my cased CAR-10 come down the chute in Spokane.  That was LUV.  And when I checked it, I shit you not, she asked me "Is thas some kind of AK-47".  I just shook my head and said no.  Didn't want to seem strange...

Quoted: Quoted: Yes the AA web site is not clear. It does refer you to the TSA web site for more information TSA says... Can I take it? Carry-on Checked Guns and Firearms Ammunition - Check with your airline or travel agent to see if ammunition is permitted in checked baggage on the airline you are flying. If ammunition is permitted, it must be declared to the airline at check-in.  Small arms ammunitions for personal use must be securely packed in fiber, wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.    Ask about limitations or fees, if any, that apply. That does not say much either... If you call and ask a AA rep, they should tell you the limit as I am telling you the limit. AA follows the IATA regs. Limited to 11 pounds of ammo in checked bags. Trust me, I have been working in Cargo at AA for 17 years, I know the rules, I will not steer you wrong. I can't help it if morons at the ticket counter are accepting more than 11 pounds. I am sharing with you the rules/regs for AA. If you want to try to beat the system and bring more that is on you and you risk the fine. As previously stated, I hid nothing and declared everything.  They were free to confiscate.

BTW:

from www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1666.xml

(and yes, I checked this as well before flying, comparing this with AA website and their cust serv rep)

______________________________________________________

Travelers & Consumers
Transporting Special Items  
 
Transporting Firearms and Ammunition

Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts may only be transported in checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.

There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers (LEOs) who are authorized to fly armed by meeting the requirements of 49 CFR § 1544.219.

Following is a summary of key regulatory requirements to transport firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage:

All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process.  
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked.
It is preferred that the passenger provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the screener must open the container, the TSA and/or airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the passenger.  If this is unsuccessful, the container will not be placed on the plane since unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) are not permitted on aircraft due to Federal regulations.  
Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it is properly packed as described above.
Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage.  

The regulations are strictly enforced.  Violations can result in criminal prosecution and the imposition of civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.  

Air carriers may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition an individual may place in checked baggage.  Therefore, travelers should also contact the air carrier regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies.

________________________________________________________



You understand the details because it is your profession, I can only work with what is available to me.

Quoted: Quoted: Alaska Airlines required my ID to claim a gun case....did yours really just come out on the belt? In Miami?? I about shit a kitten when I saw my cased CAR-10 come down the chute in Spokane.  That was LUV.  And when I checked it, I shit you not, she asked me "Is thas some kind of AK-47".  I just shook my head and said no.  Didn't want to seem strange...

Having the guns just pop out on the bag belt seems like an invitation for a theft.

Yes.  And it's in a very small case.  I'm not sure if that equates to unsuspecting, or easily whisked away.  Either way, it's obviously a rifle.

Maybe I should disguise it next time.  Like in a duffel bag.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Alaska Airlines required my ID to claim a gun case....did yours really just come out on the belt? In Miami?? I about shit a kitten when I saw my cased CAR-10 come down the chute in Spokane.  That was LUV.  And when I checked it, I shit you not, she asked me "Is thas some kind of AK-47".  I just shook my head and said no.  Didn't want to seem strange... Having the guns just pop out on the bag belt seems like an invitation for a theft.

Well an ARFCOMER would know what it is but most people think it is a guitar case / golf clubs / something else.

I'm pretty sure its not allowed to be marked 'Firearms' and I would not do it because of that very concern.

I had no problems between Killeen to Dallas, Dallas to Maui, Maui to Honolulu.  Lost my bags (and guncase) in Maui, but got everything by cab later that night.

danpas,
That is why I am sharing. I'm just showing all how some AA employees do not know all the rules.
I figure if I can help the ARFCOM Team here with more info we all win.

not poking you at all.

Guys...

Here is a good read about NYC gun laws. They even touch on bringing guns in from out of state.

www.queensdefense.com/guns.htm

I was flying on Spirit, I called for their requirements, gota woman with a Southern Accent..you going to Florida to hunt? Got some good hunting here, and startedot tell be places to go.

Quoted: Guys... Here is a good read about NYC gun laws. They even touch on bringing guns in from out of state. www.queensdefense.com/guns.htm

I had wanted to take my handgun TO NY (to go shooting with Dad).  I posted these questions in the NY Hometown forum and got the info that getting INTO NY with the handgun wouldn't be a problem (you don't have to declare anything when you land obviously, unless international), but as soon as you declared it when leaving ....

[Star Wars Empire music]


So I left the handgun at home.  The NY members pointed out various scenarios (like your link demonstrates).

The NY license plate does say 'The Empire State'

Quoted: www.alaskaair.com/www2/help/faqs/SportRelatedItems.asp Ammunition—up to 50 lbs.(domestic) and 11 lbs. (international - where permitted) may be checked, if securely packed in the original manufacturer's package or in a container designed for ammunition and of sufficient strength to protect it from accidental crushing or discharge (i.e. wood, fiber, plastic, or metal). The projectile must be no larger than 11/16" in diameter, the size of a dime. Ammunition may be checked with or separately from the firearm.

Last summer on Delta, I checked in with 1000 rds .45 and 200 rds of 12 gauge.
I think that might have weighed more than 11 lbs  

Quoted: Quoted: www.alaskaair.com/www2/help/faqs/SportRelatedItems.asp Ammunition—up to 50 lbs.(domestic) and 11 lbs. (international - where permitted) may be checked, if securely packed in the original manufacturer's package or in a container designed for ammunition and of sufficient strength to protect it from accidental crushing or discharge (i.e. wood, fiber, plastic, or metal). The projectile must be no larger than 11/16" in diameter, the size of a dime. Ammunition may be checked with or separately from the firearm. Last summer on Delta, I checked in with 1000 rds .45 and 200 rds of 12 gauge. I think that might have weighed more than 11 lbs

Nice.

How about all you guys that have done the various schools and had to fly to get there?  Did all of you check your (minimum) ammo or did you just buy it there?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: www.alaskaair.com/www2/help/faqs/SportRelatedItems.asp Ammunition—up to 50 lbs.(domestic) and 11 lbs. (international - where permitted) may be checked, if securely packed in the original manufacturer's package or in a container designed for ammunition and of sufficient strength to protect it from accidental crushing or discharge (i.e. wood, fiber, plastic, or metal). The projectile must be no larger than 11/16" in diameter, the size of a dime. Ammunition may be checked with or separately from the firearm. Last summer on Delta, I checked in with 1000 rds .45 and 200 rds of 12 gauge. I think that might have weighed more than 11 lbs   Nice. How about all you guys that have done the various schools and had to fly to get there?  Did all of you check your (minimum) ammo or did you just buy it there?

That was for class.
I was more concerned about my weapons getting there than the ammo if I had to dump it. Many of the guys from class just brought along the 11lbs and then went and cleaned out walmart

So, if I am travelling to upstate NY with a rifle or shotgun (where no permits/license are required for long guns), and I fly into NY via NYC, do I need to have a NYC permit for those long guns?

Quoted: So, if I am travelling to upstate NY with a rifle or shotgun (where no permits/license are required for long guns), and I fly into NY via NYC, do I need to have a NYC permit for those long guns?

No.

The NYPD that came over to inspect the rifles I was checking-in (standard procedure) asked where I went/got them from (Scarsdale, the suburbs).  Only in NYCity and the Five Borroughs is a long gun premit required.  Also good to check the NY Hometown forum for more detailed info.

Quoted: The NYPD that came over to inspect the rifles I was checking-in (standard procedure) asked where I went/got them from (Scarsdale, the suburbs).

Was it NYPD or PAPD (Port Authority Police) ?

Quoted: Quoted: The NYPD that came over to inspect the rifles I was checking-in (standard procedure) asked where I went/got them from (Scarsdale, the suburbs). Was it NYPD or PAPD (Port Authority Police) ?

Pretty sure it was NYPD but I did not investgate closely (looked like your typical NYPD YMMV )

Quoted: Quoted: So, if I am travelling to upstate NY with a rifle or shotgun (where no permits/license are required for long guns), and I fly into NY via NYC, do I need to have a NYC permit for those long guns? No. The NYPD that came over to inspect the rifles I was checking-in (standard procedure) asked where I went/got them from (Scarsdale, the suburbs).  Only in NYCity and the Five Borroughs is a long gun premit required.  Also good to check the NY Hometown forum for more detailed info.

Thanks

.