According to Washington Times Article, the Germans let the Americans know ahead of time what was going on, and the Americans made arrangements with the Lebanese to have him picked up in Beiruit. It would appear that much of the angst was misplaced. The Germans were on the American side, they just had to do it within their own rules which is reasonable enough.

By the way, given the apparent dislike of this board for Middle-Easterners who execute servicemen and get away without extradition, is there any chance that the US will extradite Ali Bazi from Detroit to Ireland for the executions of two of their soldiers in 1980? The Irish have been asking for a few years now...

___________________________

Navy diver's killer held in Beirut
By Nicholas Kralev and Gary Emerling
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
December 21, 2005


The Lebanese killer of a U.S. Navy diver was in custody in Beirut yesterday, according to U.S. officials who decried his release from a German prison last week and pledged to bring him to the United States for trial.
   Relatives of the victim -- Waldorf, Md., native Robert Dean Stethem -- said yesterday they were "devastated" to learn of the killer's release and urged the Bush administration to demand an explanation from Germany.
   "Just to see him free slays us," said Richard Stethem, father of the seaman whose beaten body was thrown onto a Beirut runway in 1985.
   Mohammad Ali Hamadi, a member of the Hezbollah guerrilla group, received a life sentence in Germany for hijacking a TWA plane to Beirut and fatally shooting Petty Officer 2nd Class Stethem, but was paroled after 18 years and freed on Thursday.
   The United States, which has been seeking Hamadi's extradition since his 1987 capture in Frankfurt, privately expressed anger at his early release, but officials said they were determined to "get our hands on him."
   "We are going to make every effort to see that he stands trial here in the United States," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack. "We are disappointed now that he has been released before the end of his full sentence."
   A life sentence in Germany ranges between 20 and 25 years, with the possibility of parole after 15 years. Hamadi, now 41, was convicted in 1989, and the two years served prior to that were deemed part of his sentence.
   For the Stethem family, the news reopened old wounds.
   Kenneth Stethem, the petty officer's older brother, called the release "absolute injustice," and called on the Bush administration to "bring to bear all of its resources to demand an explanation from the German government as to why he was released."
   U.S. and German officials said Berlin notified Washington a couple of days before Hamadi was released. The United States, whose extradition request was turned down in 1987, did not ask that he be held longer because it saw no chance that Germany would turn him over now.
   Instead, Washington approached the authorities in Beirut, where Petty Officer Stethem's murder occurred and where Hamadi arrived on Friday.
   A senior State Department official said Hamadi was in "temporary custody" in Lebanon, although it was not clear where or when he was arrested.

Mr. McCormack said Washington was "talking to the Lebanese government" about bringing him to the United States, but that the issue was complicated by the lack of an extradition treaty with Lebanon.
   Germany refused to extradite Hamadi to the United States because he could face the death penalty. It also argues that he has been punished for his crime, and that trying him in a U.S. court would constitute double jeopardy.
   Mr. McCormack disagreed, saying "there is a difference in the interpretations between the legal systems" of the two countries.
   The decision to free Hamadi came just before the reported release of a German hostage in Iraq, Susanne Osthoff, but Berlin rejected suggestions that the developments were related.
   The Stethem family, however, was skeptical.
   "We feel pretty strongly [the hostage-taking] made his release happen much faster," Richard Stethem said. "I think the new [German] government ... thought it was an easy out to give him back to Lebanon."
   A U.S. official agreed privately that Hamadi "could have been held longer" and said Berlin's explanation was "not good enough."
   "There was no reason for him to be tried in Germany in the first place," said Patrick Stethem, Petty Officer Stethem's other brother. "He should still be tried here for the crimes he committed against a U.S. service member."

_________

NTM

HOLY SHIT IS THAT TRUE!!???

HELL YEAH!!!!!

He'll probably get a ticket on Air CIA but get lost with the luggage over the ocean.

Quoted: By the way, given the apparent dislike of this board for Middle-Easterners who execute servicemen and get away without extradition, is there any chance that the US will extradite Ali Bazi from Detroit to Ireland for the executions of two of their soldiers in 1980? The Irish have been asking for a few years now...

Sure, we'll send them the body and they can bury it, cremate it, or sit it up in a comfy recliner with a bottle of scotch and a fine cuban cigar.  As long as that motherfu**er is dead I don't care who gets his cold, dead corpse.

Quoted: He'll probably get a ticket on Air CIA but get lost with the luggage over the ocean.

And the U.N. and E.U. will have a cow.

Quoted: He'll probably get a ticket on Air CIA but get lost with the luggage over the ocean.

The US Navy needs to test its missiles against low-observable targets at high altitude. The human body is LO, isn't it?

I'll start celebrating when he touches down on our soil. Let's hope we get the bastard.

Good news it would seem.

If it happens (his extradition to the US)

with respect to Ali Bazi?

If this is true - the charges against him, I would say "Sure, give him up"


Meanwhile, lets get our hands on the murderous animal that killed Petty Officer 2nd Class Stethem.

Quoted: Don't forget there is a new sheriff in town in Berlin.

Yep, and he likes the US, IIRC.

Quoted: Quoted: Don't forget there is a new sheriff in town in Berlin. Yep, and she likes the US, IIRC.

Quoted: Quoted: He'll probably get a ticket on Air CIA but get lost with the luggage over the ocean. And the U.N. and E.U. will have a cow.

I'm wondering why the domestic spying, secret prisons, etc are getting more play in the US media than in the world media?

You would think the UN would be passing non-binding resolutions against us, and Romania, Bulgaria, etc would have thier EU entrace talks shuttered untill they could prove they weren't being accomplices to torture.  Unless the UN and EU are in on it too...

Quoted: I'll start celebrating when he touches down on our soil. Let's hope we get the bastard.

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Ain't no fucking WAY I want this guy getting anywhere NEAR the murderer-loving supporters in the ACLU.

He needs to get a .50 cal ear-cleaning and be done with it.

I'll believe it when he goes on trial in the US (or washes up on the shores of the Med)

If they knew what was going down, sure doesn't sound like they clued the family in. Still doesn't make up for the Germans releasing him (or not extraditing him to the US in the first place)

I hope we can make sure he is 100%




- BG




(I will refrain from complete jubilation until his carcass is on our soil... and within our chains.)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don't forget there is a new sheriff in town in Berlin. Yep, and she likes the US, IIRC.

I guess IDRC.  Hope she's got balls!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He'll probably get a ticket on Air CIA but get lost with the luggage over the ocean. And the U.N. and E.U. will have a cow. I'm wondering why the domestic spying, secret prisons, etc are getting more play in the US media than in the world media? You would think the UN would be passing non-binding resolutions against us, and Romania, Bulgaria, etc would have thier EU entrace talks shuttered untill they could prove they weren't being accomplices to torture.  Unless the UN and EU are in on it too...

Maybe those Euro-buffoons have finally realized it doesn't pay to be the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

Quoted: with respect to Ali Bazi? If this is true - the charges against him, I would say "Sure, give him up"

It's pretty open-and-shut. He was a bit miffed that his brother was killed in a firefight with UN troops at At-Tiri. A whiles later, he managed to capture three, and execute two soldiers in revenge. (the third escaped, wounded)

Financial Times Germany are apparently reporting that Lebanon doesn't want to extradite Hamadi to the US.  I see no reason for them to detain him in the first place if that were true, my guess is they're holding him as a bargaining chip for a few more million dollars in aid or some such. Feckit, give it to them. Costs that much to use a Tomahawk on his cell.

NTM

I had a feeling he'd be dead or caught again very soon...this is great news.

HH

Quoted:___________________________ Navy diver's killer held in Beirut By Nicholas Kralev and Gary Emerling THE WASHINGTON TIMES December 21, 2005 The Lebanese killer of a U.S. Navy diver was in custody in Beirut yesterday, according to U.S. officials who decried his release from a German prison last week and pledged to bring him to the United States for trial.    Relatives of the victim -- Waldorf, Md., native Robert Dean Stethem -- said yesterday they were "devastated" to learn of the killer's release and urged the Bush administration to demand an explanation from Germany.    "Just to see him free slays us," said Richard Stethem, father of the seaman whose beaten body was thrown onto a Beirut runway in 1985.    Mohammad Ali Hamadi, a member of the Hezbollah guerrilla group, received a life sentence in Germany for hijacking a TWA plane to Beirut and fatally shooting Petty Officer 2nd Class Stethem, but was paroled after 18 years and freed on Thursday.    The United States, which has been seeking Hamadi's extradition since his 1987 capture in Frankfurt, privately expressed anger at his early release, but officials said they were determined to "get our hands on him."    "We are going to make every effort to see that he stands trial here in the United States," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack. "We are disappointed now that he has been released before the end of his full sentence."    A life sentence in Germany ranges between 20 and 25 years, with the possibility of parole after 15 years. Hamadi, now 41, was convicted in 1989, and the two years served prior to that were deemed part of his sentence.    For the Stethem family, the news reopened old wounds.    Kenneth Stethem, the petty officer's older brother, called the release "absolute injustice," and called on the Bush administration to "bring to bear all of its resources to demand an explanation from the German government as to why he was released."    U.S. and German officials said Berlin notified Washington a couple of days before Hamadi was released. The United States, whose extradition request was turned down in 1987, did not ask that he be held longer because it saw no chance that Germany would turn him over now.    Instead, Washington approached the authorities in Beirut, where Petty Officer Stethem's murder occurred and where Hamadi arrived on Friday.    A senior State Department official said Hamadi was in "temporary custody" in Lebanon, although it was not clear where or when he was arrested. Mr. McCormack said Washington was "talking to the Lebanese government" about bringing him to the United States, but that the issue was complicated by the lack of an extradition treaty with Lebanon.    Germany refused to extradite Hamadi to the United States because he could face the death penalty. It also argues that he has been punished for his crime, and that trying him in a U.S. court would constitute double jeopardy.    Mr. McCormack disagreed, saying "there is a difference in the interpretations between the legal systems" of the two countries.    The decision to free Hamadi came just before the reported release of a German hostage in Iraq, Susanne Osthoff, but Berlin rejected suggestions that the developments were related.    The Stethem family, however, was skeptical.    "We feel pretty strongly [the hostage-taking] made his release happen much faster," Richard Stethem said. "I think the new [German] government ... thought it was an easy out to give him back to Lebanon."    A U.S. official agreed privately that Hamadi "could have been held longer" and said Berlin's explanation was "not good enough."    "There was no reason for him to be tried in Germany in the first place," said Patrick Stethem, Petty Officer Stethem's other brother. "He should still be tried here for the crimes he committed against a U.S. service member." _________ NTM

Quick! All criminals to Germany! The land of Milk and Honey, yeah!

Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

I thought there was a catch to his release.  The mistake was in arresting him.  They should have snuffed him on touch down instead and thrown his body in some dark alley.

Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

Im sorry Germany

Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

We are sorry we didn't bomb the German prison Hamadi was in.

He needs a date with a .308.

Quoted: HOLY SHIT IS THAT TRUE!!??? HELL YEAH!!!!!

Finally.
Someone needs to whack that POS.

Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

Why? They still let the fucker go in an apparent hostage deal. That they then possibly tried to mitigate their craven act (so far, only the WT is reporting this) doesn't absolve them of letting the fucker go in the first place.

I hope they have lots of Islamic terrorists in custody, because the word is out now that the Germans will deal.

Apparently if you look at the dates in question, and the organisations doing the demanding (Adn what their demands were), the -only- link between the two releases was the timing, and at that, the releases were reversed than you would expect for a trade. Nothing else apparently makes sense. Other posters have dealt with this on different threads.

NTM

Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

Screw em.  I'll just revert back to the other thousand reasons why they suck.

- BG

Ireland does not have the death penalty so just what would they do to Bazi?

And where is Chuck Norris?

Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

Germans, I am truly sorry that you have a sucky justice system which lacks a death penalty, and releases murderers while they are still in the prime of their lives...

What a relief.  I was really upset with the Germans about this.

Kenneth Stethem, the petty officer's older brother, called the release "absolute injustice," and called on the Bush administration to "bring to bear all of its resources to demand an explanation from the German government as to why he was released."    U.S. and German officials said Berlin notified Washington a couple of days before Hamadi was released. The United States, whose extradition request was turned down in 1987, did not ask that he be held longer because it saw no chance that Germany would turn him over now. When asked to comment on why Hamadi was releaased, newly elected German Chancellor Angela Merkel issued a statement saying "Well, we're dicks."

Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

Fuck Germany, they're nothing but Frenchmen gone rogue.

Quoted: Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans. Fuck Germany, they're nothing but Frenchmen gone rogue.

They worked within their system and now the bastard will have to deal with ours.  The Germans could have really screwed us like other countries in the past and just let him go and not tell us where he would end up.  But we were told and now he is custody again.  

Quoted: Ireland does not have the death penalty so just what would they do to Bazi?

He'd probably end up spending the rest of his natural life in Portlaoise prison.

NTM

Quoted: Quoted: He'll probably get a ticket on Air CIA but get lost with the luggage over the ocean. And the U.N. and E.U. will have a cow.

Wouldnt hurt my feelings a bit if hijackers hijacked a arab plane and  hit the UN building with it.  Give them a taste of their own medicine.

Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

For what? For being obstructionist assholes? Fuck 'em.

"Shot while attempting to escape."


Yes.  Has a nice ring to it.

Quoted: Quoted: Don't forget there is a new sheriff in town in Berlin. Yep, and he likes the US, IIRC.

She

Quoted: He needs a date with a .308. rusty butterknife, variable speed dremel, and half dozen or so of Stethem's swim buddies.

Die slow and in pain, POS, die slow. Hopefully with a porkchop duct taped between your hands.

Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

Why? Because they did something that should be expected from them?

Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

Maybe not.    Just hours later the same paper reports:

Diver's killer set free in Lebanon By Nicholas Kralev THE WASHINGTON TIMES December 22, 2005 U.S. officials yesterday said the killer of a U.S. Navy diver had been released from "temporary custody" in Lebanon but refused to rule out bringing him to the United States by force. The Lebanese government criticized Washington's request to hand over Mohammad Ali Hamadi, saying the militant already had served a prison sentence for the 1985 murder of Robert Dean Stethem of Waldorf, Md.

link




We now return you to your regularly scheduled bashing of Germany.

Quoted: U.S. officials yesterday said the killer of a U.S. Navy diver had been released from "temporary custody" in Lebanon but refused to rule out bringing him to the United States by force. The Lebanese government criticized Washington's request to hand over Mohammad Ali Hamadi, saying the militant already had served a prison sentence for the 1985 murder of Robert Dean Stethem of Waldorf, Md.

C'mon, c'mon! How long does it take the CIA to get a Predator over Lebanon? Heck, we should nuke 'em now! That'll show the world that we're farking crazy and we always get our man.

Quoted: Some of you guys owe an apology to the Germans.

We should have let the Russians have the whole country. Doubt that the rest of Europe would have complained.

German Trade-off Suspected in Release of Terrorist Killer By Patrick Goodenough Dec 22, 2005 (CNSNews.com) - Germany freed the murderer of a U.S. Navy diver despite personal intervention by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, the State Department has confirmed, amid speculation that Berlin let the Hizballah terrorist go as part of a deal to free a German hostage in Iraq. Mohammed Ali Hamadi flew to Lebanon after being released last week, 18 years after he was sentenced to "life" imprisonment for hijacking a U.S. airliner in 1985 and killing 23-year-old Petty Officer Robert Stethem. Lebanon does not have an extradition treaty with the U.S., and Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora appeared unmoved Wednesday by American requests that Hamadi be handed over. "They could have asked Germany to hand him over to the United States," Lebanon's Daily Star quoted him as telling reporters. "Why are they asking us?" In fact, the U.S. applied for Hamadi's extradition from Germany when he was first arrested in 1987, and State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Wednesday it had repeatedly "over the years" since made it clear that it would like to see him stand trial in a U.S. court. "At this point, I think what I can assure anybody who's listening, including Mr. Hamadi, is that we will track him down," McCormack said. "We will find him, and we will bring him to justice in the United States for what he's done." TWA Flight 847 was seized in June 1985 during an Athens-Rome flight and diverted to Lebanon with its 153 passengers and crew. The terrorists badly beat Stethem over a period of time before shooting him and dumping his body onto the Beirut runway. "Let the American pig suffer," Hamadi declared of the 23-year-old, according to eyewitness testimony given during an Oct. 2001 District Court case in Washington, D.C. The hijacking crisis dragged on for 17 days, during which the remaining hostages were freed in stages. Hamadi was arrested in Germany two years later, after he flew into a Frankfurt airport in possession of explosives. Three other men indicted for the crimes remain on the FBI's "most wanted terrorists" list, each of them "believed to be in Lebanon" and the subject of a $5 million U.S. reward. One of the three is Imad Fayez Mugniyah, the notorious head of the security apparatus of Hizballah, the Lebanon-based terror group sponsored by Syria and Iran. Mugniyah's deputy during the 1980s hostage crisis in Lebanon was Abdul-Hadi Hamadi, Mohammed's brother. He remains a top figure: The Daily Star on Wednesday described Abdul-Hadi Hamadi as "a senior special security official within Hizballah." McCormack said the attorney-general had personally asked the German Justice Ministry "within the last month or so" to ensure that Hamadi serve out his full term. "We thought it was important that he serve out his entire term, which in this case would have been 25 years. That didn't happen." McCormack conceded that the Germans had acted according to their legal system. 'Diplomatic gesture' In Europe, however, media outlets commented on the timing of Hamadi's release, which came shortly after Iraqi terrorists set free the first German national taken hostage there. Hamadi reportedly flew to Lebanon last Thursday. Three days later, Berlin announced that Susanne Osthoff, an archaeologist taken hostage in Iraq on Nov. 25, was safely in German hands. Officials declined to provide details of the negotiations with the hostage-takers. Deputy Foreign Minister Gernot Erler said Monday that doing so could benefit the perpetrators of future kidnappings. ISN Security Watch, a resource of the Swiss-based Center for Security Studies, said the release followed negotiations by a German foreign ministry crisis group. "Several officials have said Osthoff's release did not involve paying ransom money, but was rather a 'diplomatic gesture.' It remains a source of speculation what that gesture was." The Deutsche Welle daily wondered whether there had been a "trade-off" involving Hamadi and Osthoff. It recalled that German authorities had in the past tried to use Hamadi as a bargaining chip to free German hostages held in Lebanon. George Assaf, a lawyer specializing in international law, was quoted by Lebanon's Daily Star as also implying a link. "Before the incident in Iraq involving the release of a German hostage, there were no procedures being taken in Germany for his [Hamadi's] release," Assaf said. If the allegation is true, the implications are significant. "The swap of a hostage kidnapped by Iraqi guerrillas for a Lebanese Hizballah terrorist exposes for the first time the clandestine operational links between the Hizballah and Iraqi guerrillas and fellow terrorists," commented the Israeli intelligence website debka.com. German foreign ministry spokesman Martin Jager was quoted by wire services as denying any link between the Hamadi and Osthoff releases. McCormack told a press briefing earlier this week that he was "not aware of anything that would indicate there was any quid pro quo there." Why did Germany refuse to extradite? Reuters and several other media outlets asserted this week that Germany rejected Washington's 1987 U.S. request for Hamadi's extradition because he could have faced the death penalty in America. But according to a detailed case study on the extradition request, prepared by David Kennedy for the Project for the Study and Analysis of Terrorism at Harvard in 1988, the formal U.S. request for Hamadi's extradition the previous year included a paper signed by a top legal official giving assurances that the U.S. would not request capital punishment for Hamadi. Although the Justice Department was reluctant, Kennedy wrote: "There was no real debate in Washington about doing so, since German law absolutely forbade extradition for capital crimes unless such assurances were given." McCormack said this week he was not sure whether the issue of the death penalty had entered into the German decision at the time. The real reason for Germany's refusal appears to have been more complicated. The online version of Der Spiegel reported this week that the extradition request was turned down "out of concern for the safety of two German businessmen who had been kidnapped in Lebanon." ISN Security Watch, too, said Berlin refused to hand over Hamadi "partly because it wanted to protect two German citizens being held hostage in Lebanon at the time." Contemporaneous reports back that up. According to data on the Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism (MIPT)'s Terrorism Knowledge Base, a week after Hamadi was arrested, Hizballah seized two German nationals in Beirut, Rudolf Cordes and Alfred Schmidt. The group demanded that Germany not extradite Hamadi to the U.S. and that it release him. Days later, German police arrested another brother of Hamadi, Abbas, as he flew into Germany from Beirut. He was charged with having organized the kidnappings of Cordes and Schmidt, and the terrorists still holding the two Germans added Abbas Hamadi's release to their growing list of demands. Berlin didn't release either Hamadi brother but did refuse to extradite Mohammed to the U.S., putting him on trial in Germany instead -- although the crimes had been committed against a U.S. sailor and an American airliner, carrying mostly American passengers. Both brothers were subsequently convicted and jailed -- Abbas for 13 years for arranging the kidnapping of Cordes and Schmidt, and Mohammed for the TWA hijacking, the killing of Stethem and possession of explosives. Schmidt was released by his captors in Beirut in September 1987, and Cordes one year later. Yet another German citizen, Rudolf Scharay, was kidnapped in Beirut in connection with the case, this time in January 1988. An Institute for Counter Terrorism report says his captors demanded the release of both Hamadi brothers, but Scharay was released two months later, "after Iran and Syria put pressure on the kidnappers." Purple heart After the hijacking, Stethem, who hailed from a Navy family in Waldorf, Maryland, was posthumously awarded the Purple Heart and Bronze Star and buried in the Arlington National Cemetery. The U.S. Navy later named an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer after him. A federal judge in 2001 awarded the Stethem family more than $300 million in punitive damages from the Iranian regime because of Iran's sponsorship of Hizballah. The National Law Journal said a family lawyer at the time expressed doubts that more than a fraction of that amount would be recovered because that would require the seizing of Iranian assets in the U.S.

With allies like Germany, who needs enemies?

Quoted: With allies like Germany, who needs enemies?

Things are less confusing when Germany is our enemy.  

Quoted: Quoted: With allies like Germany, who needs enemies? Things are less confusing when Germany is our enemy.

Ain't it the truth?

They make the Phrench look trustworthy.

Petty Officer Stethem