User Panel
Posted: 12/19/2005 10:25:11 AM EDT
Virginia Drug Case Show Two Sides Of Patriot Act Use
Virginian-Pilot, The (Norfolk, VA) (KRT) via NewsEdge Corporation Dec. 16--Federal law enforcement officials in the Eastern District of Virginia wasted little time in using the tools of the USA Patriot Act following its passage soon after the 2001 terrorist attacks. One of the most significant cases to result was the investigation into the "Virginia jihad," a group of defendants in Northern Virginia charged with aiding al-Qaida terrorists and the Taliban. Nine have been convicted in connection with the case. That investigation and others "would have been almost impossible to complete" without the expanded law enforcement powers under the act, the FBI said in recently unclassified documents obtained by a Washington civil liberties group. As the U.S. Senate prepares to vote on renewing the Patriot Act, a debate over its use and possible abuse has intensified locally and around the country. A vote could come today. One debate involves the use of the act in ordinary criminal cases. Provisions in the act have been used in cases unrelated to terrorism, such as a $2 million Hampton Roads drug conspiracy that led to the arrests of 23 people earlier this year. Defense attorneys and civil libertarians were surprised when they started seeing Patriot Act provisions turn up in routine criminal matters, despite language in the act that does not limit its usage to terrorism cases. Norfolk defense attorney Andrew A. Protogyrou said he has been seeing more frequent use of Patriot Act provisions in non terrorism cases. Protogyrou, who represented one of the suspects in the drug case, said, "You never saw this easy access to wiretaps before. " U.S. Rep. Bobby Scott, the only member of Congress from Hampton Roads to vote against the act and its renewal, said he's concerned about the potential for abuse. "You have an incentive to snoop on people for whom there is no probable cause that they've committed a crime," Scott said Thursday. Federal prosecutors and agents would not talk about the drug case because it is ongoing and involves matters under court-ordered seal. Court records say members of the ring distributed $2 million worth of cocaine, ecstasy, methamphetamine and marijuana throughout Hampton Roads over the past 18 months. Twenty of the defendants have been convicted. Court records indicate that the case involved search warrants executed across seven states. FBI agents also intercepted about 10,000 phone calls on multiple lines, including 5,000 calls made by one individual in a five-week period earlier this year, according to court records in the case. The Patriot Act allows agents to tap multiple phones at once, the "roving wiretap" provision. The FBI has been reluctant to disclose how often it has used wide-ranging eavesdropping and search-and- seizure tools under the act, and critics say a lack of oversight has led to abuses, an accusation the FBI denies. The Electronic Privacy Information Center, a Washington civil liberties organization, found 113 instances of "violations of internal procedures and federal law" in the use of certain Patriot Act provisions, according to documents the group released this week. The FBI called those incidents technical or administrative problems, something that happens as agents learn how to use new laws. But in one of those 113 reports from a field supervisor to the agency's Intelligence Oversight Board, the FBI said an unidentified federal agent's actions in obtaining financial records "may have been unlawful." The conduct of the agent, the FBI said, was "willful and intentional," yet the report added that "she did not realize that she had acted in contravention" of the law and bureau policy. "The documents we obtained raise questions that need to be answered," Marc Rotenberg, the electronic privacy center's executive director, said this week. "We don't think that the provisions provide adequate oversight." Scott, a Democrat from Newport News, agreed with Rotenberg. "The Patriot Act has provisions in it that are extremely invasive into people's private affairs without making any significant difference in public safety," Scott said. Scott said he's also concerned about the cross over provision in the act, which allows for the sharing of information between law enforcement and intelligence agencies. The Bush administration says it is one of the most important provisions in the act. An intelligence agent who, for example, is tracking a terrorist overseas and discovers a drug conspiracy is now allowed to pass that information along to criminal investigators, something prohibited pre-Patriot Act. The FBI lists scores of cases in which that sharing of information has helped dismantle criminal enterprises or led to terrorism suspects. A drug case in Texas evolved into a terrorism investigation of illegal financing of the radical anti-Israel group Hamas, the FBI said. The sharing provision also led to the convictions in the Virginia jihad case, which involved terrorism training in the woods of Northern Virginia using paintball guns. Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales reported in June that 401 individuals have been criminally charged as a result of terrorism investigations using Patriot Act provisions. "We are waging a war that defends the lives of all Americans," Gonzales said that month. "And we wage that war each day in a way that values and protects" civil liberties. But Scott countered that the act allows agents to spy on ordinary citizens who have not committed criminal acts and may never know someone was listening to their phone calls or reading their e-mail. "If they limited it to terrorists, there wouldn't be any debate," Scott said. "But this is not only for run of the mill crimes, but for activities that aren't even criminal." He cited, hypothetically, intelligence information obtained in an international trade investigation being turned over to criminal investigators. That was something not allowed pre-Patriot Act. These criticisms have led some Congressional leaders to rethink approval of a bill reauthorizing provisions of the Patriot Act set to expire Dec. 31. While the House easily approved the renewal bill this week, its chances of passing the Senate are not as good. A bipartisan group of senators is threatening a filibuster. In the frenzy of post- Sept. 11 terrorism fears, Congress pushed through the USA Patriot Act, an acronym for Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act. A renewal of the act that passed the House on Wednesday added some oversight, but Scott and others said it's not enough. The reauthorization bill would extend for four years two of the Patriot Act's most controversial provisions -- allowing roving wiretaps and permitting secret warrants for books, records and other items from businesses, hospitals and organizations such as libraries. The expanded use of national security letters was given a four-year sunset provision. Such letters, which do not require judicial approval, can be used to sweep up vast amounts of information on U.S. citizens suspected of having terrorism ties. About 30,000 such letters are issued each year, according to a recent news report, and their use has become controversial because the government continues to hold and share information gathered on ordinary citizens even if it is collected inadvertently or after they have been deemed innocent. Scott said he hopes the sunset provisions will keep federal agents in check. "They're going to have to answer for what they've done," he said. "Everybody knows that if it's ever abused, they'll never get it renewed again." |
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If you dont understand already, I doubt you would understand after having it explained to you. |
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Keep telling yourself that...it'll help you sleep at night. |
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You hate our freedoms. |
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that's bullshit. Even the name of the act says it's to combat terrorism. I'm not complaining that they busted a drug ring, but as it spreads from terrorism to everything else they could be conducting random searches on every one of us. Personally, I don't want some feds searching my house whenever they feel like it
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Remember this was created to help prevent terrorism.
Using the Patriot act in ways it wasn't supposed to be opens up other ways that it can misused. Like monitor the citiznes to make sure we are staying in line. |
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imagine hillary rodham is president, still feel good about it? |
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USA USA USA Patriot Act = Police State, Auschwitz, Soviet Gulags And Evil Tyranny!!! USA USA USA Patriot Act = Orwell's 1984, Nazism, Communism and Summary Executions In The Street!!! USA USA USA |
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"It" began a long, long time ago. And this is just one of the more recent embarassments for the government. Remember this one?
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Don't mention that Echelon stuff. There is no way it can be linked to Bush or the Patriot Act. After all, history only started when Bush was elected. I know I'm on some list somewhere; BFD. Privacy and old-time individual freedom is dead and gone. Dems are so concerned when it's politically good for them about "freedom" and "privacy" for Americans thay they will happily grant the same right to some fucktard who wants to kill us all.
matthew |
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+1, not even worth the trouble. |
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You might change your tune if you get red-flagged for buying several guns in a very short period of time. Even though the feds have no evidence of wrongdoing, they could then tear your life apart looking for something to charge you with. Under a different administration that scenario could become very real. |
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You are disturbing the ARFcom sheep, stop. BTW, politicians = crooks/criminals |
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I guess I wasn't the only one laughing at Bush last night while he was whining about how his beloved Patriot Act was being fillibustered and such. That's one of only two things Bush has pissed me off with. I just think... what's next?
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You don't write a 400 page law overnight. The Patriot Act has been around for a long time and the elite behind the scenes were just waiting for the opportunity to get it through. Bush has just been their errand boy. Imagine this...Clinton or Bush = Martin Scheen in Apocolypse Now, Colonel Lucas and General Corman = the people behind the scenes in our governement, Freedom = Marlon Brando...you get the picture. |
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Just wait until you become a terrorist for your "unlawful" activities and fine your self in some deep shit.
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+1 Million Today's good citizens are tomorrow's criminals. Everyone's fine when it's just terrorists. Or drug users. Or Muslims. Or 'suspected criminals'. Or 'persons of interest'. Or gun owners. See where this is going? In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me — and by that time no one was left to speak up. --Martin Niemoller |
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It's not now? But then it would be a brilliant idea, and show how much they caaaarrrreee about us and our safety as long as it came from some peace love and recycle libtard it would be a good idea. Don't limit your panic to just guns, either. Conservatives and Christians will be on the short list, too. |
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In this specific instance, yes - drug dealers going down isnt something to lose sleep over. However, what if you buying 2 stripped AR receivers raises enough red flags to initiate a wiretap on you? Dont think that can happen? Like I said, you either understand or you dont. I really wonder about people, like you, who applaud this kind of mission creep. Do you really think this sort of thing makes you more secure? Security vs. freedom is a delicate balancing act - you cannot have both. The most 'secure' nation on Earth is probably North Korea, but would you want to live there? |
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but they were given such neat new tools that let them correlate and find all sorts of bad stuff going on ..
you can't blame them.. you would use them too if had their job and the console with its neat graphs and such were sitting next to you.... so you do a little search looking for a bad guy (but not a terrorist) that you were looking fore before you were transferred into you current anti-terrorist dept... its the wave of the future. so much info, so many electronic signals.. collect them, run analysis and find such bad craziness.... technology.. and your rights.. technology will always take precedence over your rights in the long term... evenvtually everything you do, except perhaps within your home will be monitored and surveiled and data mined by automated artificial intelligence programs.... and it will be good and you WILL be happy.... |
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Maybe you are, maybe not. I don't think I am. Just to check, I sent in my application to be on the local draft board, and I got approved. I will be one of the people that decides who goes when we really gear up for an invasion of the whole ME. |
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o rly? |
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rly. I just mean that if I'm not on a list, or the list I'm on is such a piddly little list, then... Y'know, that really didn't have a point at all, did it. Forget I exist. |
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I have to call BS. The Government would never use a law they passed to fight terrorism to monitor people and charge them with other crimes.
They would never read your emails and wiretap you because you got a Nigerian Scammer email. They would never use the parts of the Patriot Act that ask for lists of books loaned out at libraries to include lists of things sold by merchants to have gun registration. Our government is here to protect you and would never trample on your inalienable rights. |
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Yay government!!!
As long they say it's for fighting terrorists, they can take away all my civil rights, yippee! |
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UH you know, Ye olde tyme freedom is still out there. I bet you $10 no Amish person ever got his messages intercepted by echelon! Stop being so dependant on "high-tech". Or if you must assume all communications are being listened to and talk on the phone or e-mail or what ever accordingly. Dont use "flag words" and keep your tone jovial and lite! No tension in that voice, no sir! Oh and stop deluding yourself that you live in a "free country". It takes millions of dead soldiers to gain freedoms, it only takes a hundred dead civilians to lose your freedoms...............
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Lets see:
Government wants to go after "assault weapons" again, finds a large internet-based "terrorist militia" organization. Whis organization has "cells" in every state of the country, many which routinely meet for "training operations" consisting mainly of shooting all manner of weaponry. Most communication is public, however, a select few "militia members" engage in discussions in a members only forum, with the leaders also having several forums for them alone. Covert commmunicatoin is also available through a sustem known as "IM" Many of the members openly advocate the overthrow of the government through such phrases as "vote from the rooftops", "pressing the reset button", "from my cold dead hands", and "Molon Labe". They have been deemed a threat to national security and the safety of Americans. IP's logged, emails tracked, phones tapped, homes watched. All because those in power have deemed so. Don't worry, the ACLU will come to the rescue, because we all know how much they love the gun nuts. |
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Of course, a different administration. I mean the current administration wouldn't do anything like spy on people without a warrant would they? |
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Just like he wouldn't sign a bill knowing it was unconstitutional. (McCain-Feingold) |
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Wait a second, I thought the PATRIOT act was intended to extend the capabilities of law enforcement/intelligence in regards to drug lords and mafia organizations to fighting terrorists. If this is so, then why is it that these people NEED to use the PATRIOT act in order to take care of the drug and mafia organizations? Seems to me they never had the power in the first place, and the PATRIOT act provisions were lied about to the sheeple here and elsewhere, i.e. "We already have these abilities when we go after drugs and organized crime, so we should have them when fighting terrorists to".
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