You heard it hear first...



www.issues2000.org/Senate/George_Allen.htm#Gun_Control

Strongly Opposes topic 10: Absolute right to gun ownership

I think he voted for the first Assault Weapon ban but voted against the AWB Amendment last year.  I have to do some more research

Quoted: I think he voted for the original first Assault Weapon ban but voted against the AWB Amendment last year.  I have to do some more research

oops !!!!!!!!!!

great...

Is Karl Rove going to still be running the show then?

If so, what are his takes on things like this? I know that there are debates, caucuses and whatnot between now and then to decide who the nominee is but how much input does Rove have into such things?

(I don't think he's the boogyman the liberals make him out to be - in fact I really don't know how much input he has in to day to day workings... Just a question)

Quoted: I think he voted for the first Assault Weapon ban but voted against the AWB Amendment last year.  I have to do some more research

he pulled a Kerry?


"I voted for the Ban Before I Voted Against it"

He wasn't in the Senate in 1994.

He never voted for the ban.

Not only didn't he vote for the ban, he didn't support renewing it either.  One of the VA members here wrote his office, and got a very nice, unequivocal message back on his position.  

IIRC, the vote the little blurb refers to was last year's, where Kennedy et al tacked the AWB renewal amendment  onto the frivolous lawsuit protection bill, which was then voted down by all the good guys who'd brought it up in the first place.  

So far this year, he's voted YES on the Protection of Lawful Commerce Bill (minus the bad shit from last year), and NO to the requirement for handgun manufacturers to provide child safety locks for each gun sold.  

I don't think you have to worry about Sen. Allen.  

Quoted: Quoted: I think he voted for the first Assault Weapon ban but voted against the AWB Amendment last year.  I have to do some more research he pulled a Kerry? "I voted for the Ban Before I Voted Against it"

No, he is very clear in stating that he fundamentally supported the ban when it came around the first time in 1994.  He is equally as clear that his stance was an ERROR on his part based on misleading data, etc.  What he thought was logical then isn't born out by the facts, history, or even anecdotal stories.

He states that he has studied the situation more throughly in the interim and is now very firmly behind gun owner's rights.  

Quoted: I think he voted for the first Assault Weapon ban but voted against the AWB Amendment last year.  I have to do some more research

You're thinking of Sen. John Warner(R) who voted for the '94 ban ( and supported the renewal as well ) as did the other VA senator at the time -- Sen.Charles Robb(D).  Allen wasn't elected to the U.S. Senate until 2000 and I've yet to hear an unflattering thing about him from the NRA-ILA.  As a matter of fact, the biggest SNAFU I can remember involving him was when the press tried to smear him as a rascist for having a Confederate flag displayed on the wall of his cabin.  The fuss blew over when he responded that he had a number of historical flags displayed -- including a Revolutionary War Don't Tread On Me banner.

When was the last time a Senator actually got elected as President?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it. Only TWO of them - Kennedy and Harding - moved directly from the Senate to the White House. Still, I'd say his chances are slim.



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James Monroe

Senator, 1790-1794

President, 1817-1825

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John Quincy Adams

Senator, 1803-1808

President, 1825-1829

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Andrew Jackson

Senator, 1797-1798; 1823-1825

President, 1829-1837

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Martin Van Buren

Senator, 1821-1828

President, 1837-1841

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William Henry Harrison

Senator, 1825-1828

President, 1841

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John Tyler

Senator, 1827-1836

President, 1841-1845

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Franklin Pierce

Senator, 1837-1842

President, 1853-1857

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James Buchanan

Senator, 1834-1845

President, 1857-1861

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Andrew Johnson

Senator, 1857-1862; 1875

President, 1865-1869

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Benjamin Harrison

Senator, 1881-1887

President, 1889-1893

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Warren G. Harding

Senator, 1915-1921

President, 1921-1923

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Harry S. Truman

Senator, 1935-1945

President, 1945-1953

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John F. Kennedy

Senator, 1953-1960

President, 1961-1963

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Lyndon B. Johnson

Senator, 1949-1961

President, 1963-1969

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Richard M. Nixon

Senator, 1950-1953

President, 1969-1974

March 8, 2004

Dear XXXXX:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the renewal of the 1994 Assault
Weapons Ban. Since you contacted me previously on this issue, I wanted to
let you know I voted against the extension of this law.

Four years ago, in the midst of the 2000 election, I said that my goal in
fighting criminals was to enforce, not repeal, existing laws. And,
indeed, in Virginia we have seen that incarcerating violent felons is the
best crime reduction policy. I still believe our focus should be on
criminals not guns, and it should be on programs that work, like Project
Exile and the Abolition of Parole.

If the Assault Weapons Ban had proven effective in reducing violent crime,
I would have supported this legislation. However, I have listened to the
thoughtful comments and assertions of proponents and opponents of this law
and I have concluded, after a review of the evidence, that this symbolic
ban of nineteen firearms chosen for cosmetic reasons is a meaningless,
toothless law that has virtually no impact on crime.

Police reports and federal felony surveys have consistently shown that
so-called assault weapons are used in only one to two percent of violent
crimes. Crime victim surveys indicate the figure is only one-quarter of
one percent. Murders with knives, clubs and hands far outnumber those
with "assault weapons" by over 20-to-1. Put another way, notwithstanding
this ten-year ban of nineteen firearms, criminals continue to commit
illegal acts, they just do so with other weapons; with other guns, knives
or objects.

The simple fact is the Assault Weapons Ban only attacks the cosmetic
features of a gun, banning some guns even though they function exactly the
same as hundreds of other semi-automatic firearms. It is worth noting
that the proposed ban does not refer to the fully automatic firearms or
machine guns that many Americans view as assault weapons - the Uzi and the
AK-47. It also does not refer to guns that can be readily or easily
converted to fully automatic firearms. Current federal law already bans
the sale of such guns.

In addition, I am concerned that reauthorizing this gun ban legislation
will serve as a platform, inviting added restrictions on Second Amendment
rights. The current law, then, only makes sense if the ultimate goal it
is to ban more and more guns in the future, something I cannot support.
This can be seen in several proposals that permanently ban a large number
of guns that citizens lawfully use for competition, hunting or
self-defense. I have a long and consistent record of supporting the
Second Amendment rights of Virginians and Americans to protect their
families and themselves, and I am committed to protecting the rights of
law-abiding American citizens.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me. If you would like to
receive an e-mail newsletter about my initiatives to improve America,
please sign up on my website (<http://allen.senate.gov>). It is an honor
to serve you in the United States Senate, and I look forward to working
with you to make Virginia and America a better place to live, learn, work
and raise a family.

With warm regards, I remain

Sincerely,
A
George Allen

Does anyone thimk for a second that he will recnd 89 EO on taking office I doubt it.  I suspect he is niether ally or enemy.  I claaify GWB and GWHB 41 as enemy.

Somebody back me up here,but I BELIEVE the good Senator got in trouble in college for squirrell hunting.On CAMPUS!
And I wasted all my time chasing beaver.

From what I read on his web site it seems as though he opposes the second ammendment as being an absolute individual right

"If the Assault Weapons Ban had proven effective in reducing violent crime,
I would have supported this legislation"

That's all I needed to read. Supporting unconstitutional laws is fine, as long as it proves effective in reducing violent crime?

"It is worth noting
that the proposed ban does not refer to the fully automatic firearms or
machine guns that many Americans view as assault weapons - the Uzi and the
AK-47. It also does not refer to guns that can be readily or easily
converted to fully automatic firearms. Current federal law already bans
the sale of such guns."

He's also a tad misinformed - they are heavily regulated, not banned. Still, I gather he wouldn't support removing such restrictions.

Maybe it's a bit pollyanish to expect that elected officials disregard politics and actually defend the Consitution they swore to uphold, depsite the whims of the public.

Quoted: From what I read on his web site it seems as though he opposes the second ammendment as being an absolute individual right

The letter I offered above seems pretty clear on the issue.

"In addition, I am concerned that reauthorizing this gun ban legislation
will serve as a platform, inviting added restrictions on Second Amendment
rights. The current law, then, only makes sense if the ultimate goal it
is to ban more and more guns in the future, something I cannot support."

"I have a long and consistent record of supporting the
Second Amendment rights of Virginians and Americans to protect their
families and themselves, and I am committed to protecting the rights of
law-abiding American citizens."

Quoted: Quoted: From what I read on his web site it seems as though he opposes the second ammendment as being an absolute individual right The letter I offered above seems pretty clear on the issue. "In addition, I am concerned that reauthorizing this gun ban legislation will serve as a platform, inviting added restrictions on Second Amendment rights. The current law, then, only makes sense if the ultimate goal it is to ban more and more guns in the future, something I cannot support." "I have a long and consistent record of supporting the Second Amendment rights of Virginians and Americans to protect their families and themselves, and I am committed to protecting the rights of law-abiding American citizens."

Except that he also said:

"If the Assault Weapons Ban had proven effective in reducing violent crime,
I would have supported this legislation"

I don't think he and I are on the same page when it comes to individual rights. He's not an outright enemy, and not a gun grabber by default, but that statement bothers me quite a bit.

I like the format of Vote-Smart.org for info on how the politicians voted.

ETA interest group ratings on gun issues:

2003-2004  Senator Allen supported the interests of the Gun Owners of America 50 percent in 2003-2004.

2003  Senator Allen supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 0 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

2003  Based on the results of a questionnaire the Gun Owners of America assigned Senator Allen a grade of 50 (with grades ranging from a high of A+ to a low of F-).

2002  On the votes that the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence considered to be the most important as of 2002, Senator Allen voted their preferred position 0 percent of the time. These scores are cumulative for each representative's time in their current office. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence considered votes from 1988-2002 in the House and 1991-2002 in the Senate when determining these scores.

2001-2002  Based on the results of a questionnaire the Gun Owners of America assigned Senator Allen a grade of C (with grades ranging from a high of A+ to a low of F-).

Basically, gun nuts give him a C, the bedwetters give him an 0% F- etc.

This "Supporter of the Second Ammendment" supports the following:
www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=CNIP9093#12

b) Maintain and strengthen the enforcement of existing federal restrictions on the purchase and possession of guns.
Strengthen the enforcement of federal restrictions that are unconstitutional as it is?

f) Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks on guns.
Infringment, however slight.

g) Increase penalties for the possession of any illegal guns.
Guns that shouldn't be illegal in the first place, and we all know it.

j) Require background checks of gun buyers at gun shows.
I'm opposed to background checks even when purchasing through a dealer (infringment). Forcing background checks on FTF transfers at gun shows is even worse.

He's paying the Second lip service. Sorry.

He was a great Govenor. He is a good Senator. I would rate him a B+ on gun rights. He is far better than many of the alternatives. He is a friend to gun owners and just needs a little pushing sometimes.

Until it is Rebublicans vs Libertarians, he should be viewed positively.

I thought Allen voted against handgun trigger locks?

Quoted: This "Supporter of the Second Ammendment" supports the following: www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=CNIP9093#12 b) Maintain and strengthen the enforcement of existing federal restrictions on the purchase and possession of guns. Strengthen the enforcement of federal restrictions that are unconstitutional as it is? f) Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks on guns. Infringment, however slight. g) Increase penalties for the possession of any illegal guns. Guns that shouldn't be illegal in the first place, and we all know it. j) Require background checks of gun buyers at gun shows. I'm opposed to background checks even when purchasing through a dealer (infringment). Forcing background checks on FTF transfers at gun shows is even worse. He's paying the Second lip service. Sorry.

I put him in the same class as Wayne LaPierre.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: From what I read on his web site it seems as though he opposes the second ammendment as being an absolute individual right The letter I offered above seems pretty clear on the issue. "In addition, I am concerned that reauthorizing this gun ban legislation will serve as a platform, inviting added restrictions on Second Amendment rights. The current law, then, only makes sense if the ultimate goal it is to ban more and more guns in the future, something I cannot support." "I have a long and consistent record of supporting the Second Amendment rights of Virginians and Americans to protect their families and themselves, and I am committed to protecting the rights of law-abiding American citizens." Except that he also said: "If the Assault Weapons Ban had proven effective in reducing violent crime, I would have supported this legislation" I don't think he and I are on the same page when it comes to individual rights. He's not an outright enemy, and not a gun grabber by default, but that statement bothers me quite a bit.

Which is an EDUCATED and DIPLOMATIC way of saying, "I am looking out for ways to make the Dems FEEL safe, but since we all know the AWB is bullshit, and we all know that laws like it don't REALLY work -- that you Dems should FOAD, because I'm not going to be in the business of banning guns."

You can read it whatever way you like, I see a man who found the error in politicized "logic" and has taken a stance nearly 180 degrees from the "FEEL GOOD" politics that so many other folks want to embrace on the Hill, especially concerning crime and guns and the rights of CITIZENS to own guns.

He's gotta be better than the two Republicans we have here in Ohio, Dewine and Voinovich...

I have known George Allen for a long time.  I first met him back in '90 when he was elected to Congress for the 7th district in Virginia.  He has regularly come back to my community for political functions where I have been able to meet with him.  More recently I was able to have breakfast with him.

On a personal level, he is as good as they come.  He is a country boy at heart, so mush so that following breakfast he put in his little pinch of skoal.  Allen was instrumental in passing and reforming Virginia's CCW laws.  He is a good, honest person and he will ALWAYS have my vote.

What's Larry Craig's plans for 2008?

...I can dream, can't I?!?

Quoted: He's gotta be better than the two Republicans we have here in Ohio, Dewine and Voinovich...

No doubt.

Quoted: He was a great Govenor. He is a good Senator. I would rate him a B+ on gun rights. He is far better than many of the alternatives. He is a friend to gun owners and just needs a little pushing sometimes. Until it is Rebublicans vs Libertarians, he should be viewed positively.

Good summary.

I'm big on him myself, but is he not a native Californian???? ( His Dad was coaching out there,so maybe it doesn't count)

Ted Nugent for President, '08.

Quoted: I'm big on him myself, but is he not a native Californian???? ( His Dad was coaching out there,so maybe it doesn't count)

I don't know if he is or not but if was born in Cali, then he must be in the same mold as Reagan-he wears cowboy boots ALL the time.

Quoted: This "Supporter of the Second Ammendment" supports the following: f) Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks on guns. Infringment, however slight. I'm opposed to background checks even when purchasing through a dealer (infringment). Forcing background checks on FTF transfers at gun shows is even worse. He's paying the Second lip service. Sorry.

here's the link to the vote on the Child Safety Lock Amendment...looks like a NO to me.  

www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?vote_id=3594

I notice, though, that BOTH your state's weasely fu**s voted FOR it.  

He might get some blue collar appeal being the son of an ex-redskins coach, and a huge football fan.  When he was governor, he made football predictions on every Friday on a local radio station.  This type of meaningless crap goes far in some circles.

Personally, I don't think he's presidential material, but I also thought that Bush would not get elected either (2000 or 2004) because of his public persona...