Seriously, most of the time when I go to a gun shop the hardly ever have what I am looking for or need.  When I ask they just say that they can order it for me- most of the time from the same online sites that I could go to directly.  Now there will be some shops that may stay open do to good prices/selections and a good inventory but 80% of the gun shops that I walk into have the exact same guns, the exact same ammo selection and the exact same boring accessories.  From what I can tell just most arfcommers get their guns/ammo/accessories by either trading with each other or through online vendors.

The internet is killing stand-alone gun shops. Also, unless they are a chain, they don't have enough money to keep everything on hand that a customer might potentially want and still make $$ at it.

No, I don't see online retailers killing brick and mortar stores.  I see lack of customer service, prices and selection killing stores, gun or otherwise.

Amazing at it sounds, there are gun stores and FFLs making money.  I know two off the top of my head that recently expanded their stores.  Not the sign of a store going under.

Price is not my primary selection criteria for selecting someone to do business with.

One of the local guns store here never has what I want in stock.  And when I buy something online they bitch they could have got it and try to charge me what their profit margin would have been if they had got the weapon for me.

This after telling me "Nope, can't get it." and "Sure, fill out this form and we'll let you have it sent  here".  Only my suspicious nature saved me because I made the clerk write "We can't get it" on both copies of the receipt.

If they would expand their stock beyond the handful of guns in the cases, they'd do better.

Quoted: I see lack of customer service, prices and selection killing stores

yup.

If gun stores would hire knowledgeable employees instead of their friends and family who don't know dick about guns, ammo, OR customer service, they would be much better off.

I tried calling all the gun stores in the area to see if they wanted to hire someone who works hard, knows how to sell guns, and knows how to help people who aren't sure what they want... and of course none of them wanted to hire me.  They would rather have their friends working there that don't have a damn clue.

It is the attitude of the majority of gun store owners that is killing brick and mortar gun stores and it really pains me to see them operate the way they do when I know I could do much better.

Gun stores are some of the last industries that chains haven't crept in and taken over.  I mean how many shop at Joe Bobs groceries?  Hardly anyone.  They don't have good prices, they don't have good selection and they have crappy customer service.

Just because you like guns and want to sell them doesn't mean your a good business person.  A gun store is a BUSINESS.  Mom and pop stores just can't compete with national chains in any industry.  If your smart, stock what SELLS (not what you THINK people need) and can freaken balance your accounts then you will make money.  Most gun stores it seems are run by shoot my deer gun once a year types that only stock hunting supplies, and even these are the knock off brands.  They don't try and become distributors for any name brand of anything.  They get pissed when you are smart enough to know what things really cost.

Any fool can open up a store with a bank loan.  Most personal businesses fail in the US anyway.  Gun stores are one of the last places with a lot of small stores so its natural they will fail.

What I'd like to see is a chain that stocks ALL the guns, not just bubba's hunting guns.  AR's, AK's etc etc.  I'd pay 20 to 30 more for more expensive accessories or dealer mark ups if I can have it RFN and not piss the UPS man off

All joking aside, (and I'd love to hear from the FFL's here), is opening a gun store (assuming you provide good prices and customer service) a viable business idea these days?

In general, what are the best loacations to open one? Urban? Rural? In between?

Curious....

I rarely buy from bricks-n-mortar shops anymore, but I understand they can still be very profitable.
There are a lot of shop owners out there making 6-figure incomes off of their shops. I know of several.

As pointed out above, it's pretty easy to segment the market and totally avoid competition from the likes of Wally World and Prick's Dick's.

I guess you guys dont go to the same gunshop as me. The guy I go to has everything you can possibly want, and if he doesnt, he'll order it and add a couple of bucks to make profit. He is probably the best gun shop owner in South Florida.

Quoted: All joking aside, (and I'd love to hear from the FFL's here), is opening a gun store (assuming you provide good prices and customer service) a viable business idea these days? In general, what are the best loacations to open one? Urban? Rural? In between? Curious....

What I wonder is if the best of both worlds can be had.  In other words, have a gun store AND a web store.  It seems like nowadays that would be the best way to make money.  I know it's possible, but I wonder if it's the best way.

Quoted: Gun stores are some of the last industries that chains haven't crept in and taken over.  I mean how many shop at Joe Bobs groceries?  Hardly anyone.  They don't have good prices, they don't have good selection and they have crappy customer service.

I will disagree with you, a touch.  It isn't a gun store, but illustrates my point.

Home Depot crept into my area a few years ago.  Doom and gloom for the Mom & Pop home improvement stores was predicted.  A store local to my parents was mentioned by name as being the first to go.  Quite the contrary, as this store has grown and the owners attribute its growth to the super store(s) being in the area and expanding the base of people buying home improvement products.  

The owners are smart business people and adjusted their products and services to attract and maintain their clientele.  They knew they couldn't compete with commodity items found at HD, and stocked higher end products (higher margain products) and beat the national chain stores with customer service, hands down.

Boutique stores can still survive (and thrive) among the national chain stores.  What the owners/operators need to know and understand is that they will not compete head to head on commodity products.

Strangely enough, one of my local gunstores is still going like gangbusters.  They have a very wide collection of just about everything including antique firearms, C&R, and modern weapons.  They carry a full line of Surefire stuff, a huge collection of knives, scopes, and accessories.  They have all the latest handguns, shotguns, and rifles.  Of course, we're just a bit limited in not having AW's and high cap mags...

It's great to be able to see things in person that I read about online.  The only downside is their prices are higher than online, but I try and buy there whenever I can justify it, so they will *stay* in business.  They have zero bubbas behind the counter.  Everybody knows what they're doing, I think.

Now, the other gunstore across the street just went out of business, but they focused on motly used/consignment guns, militaria, and hobby supplies.  A fun place to browse, and occasionally they had what I needed.  Sad to see them go.

Just weird.

I'm starting a gun store in Holden, Missouri at the end of the month, as a nights and weekends project.  Its called Missouri Custom Armament and we're an 07 manufacturer.  I'm honestly hoping that most of our business is online, but foot traffic is welcome too.  Alot of how I want to run my gunstore is based on good and bad experiences with various shops and FFLs including working for a couple of brick-and-mortar places, and the firm belief that I can do better.

But here's the point--this is a nights and weekends thing on top of a 40-hour work week.  I'll be low volume, good customer service, and good prices because I don't have to feed myself or make my mortgage payment off of gun sales.  The pawn shop down the road wants $600 for a Glock 17 because they have to pay enough employee payroll to keep their employee's kids fed, and keep the doors open and lights on from 9 to 5:30 every day.  We are going to kick their ass and I almost feel sorry for them, but we will only be open limited hours one night a week and weekends.

I think the internet is a fantastic asset for a brick-and-mortar gunshop that is savvy to it and has good customer service.  My friends at CMMG in Fayette have made their name through the virtual marketplace.  What the internet is really killing is the gunshow.  Its so sad to see the same guys dragging the same dusty overpriced crap from show to show, hoping against hope that someone will still pay $1500 for a "pre-ban" Colt because they don't realize the AWB sunsetted over a year ago.  Pathetic.

an FFL friend of mine stocks and sells only class 3 stuff and makes a killing, think stock broker rich, he'll do normal "semi" transfers for me, but when I walk into his house and see full auto M-60's and MG 42's  and suppressed AR's laying arround I get all giddy like a school girl, to him there about as common as house plants.

look nowing about guns is  very important
but not as important as just being a decent person.
when i check out my compitition i listen
to the sales people and you all know you
can hear some reall bs. sorry off track.
pricing is what it is if you feel it is to high
lets talk, cash always works. hunting rifles/ shotguns
sellbetter then most other guns that is why store stock
those type of firearms hanguns do well but the internet
does hurt my sales ever been to topglock glocks
9/40/357 wholesale around 440.00 i sell them at
500.00 check the price. optics i sell kahles, swarovski,
pentax, leupold, eotech i still lose sales to
the internet. sorry so many reasons i am a one man operation and will do
do my best

    I have three really good gunshops within about 35 miles driving distance.  Used prices are good & fair. I don't buy very many NEW guns so I guess I can't comment. I never hear the goofy gun store commando comments from them. Customers are treated fairly and with respect. These are all in the shadow of big box stores like Cabelas, Bass Pro and Gander Mountain. The are always busy, They are fun places to browse and trade.

Johnson's Sporting Goods, Adrian MI (Big dealer for the Elmer Fudd & farmer crowd as well as Mil-Surp bargains)
Shooter's Service, Livonia MI (more service oriented , gunsmithing etc. )
Guns Galore, Fenton MI ( probably the largest stocking dealer in a small store.)

I hope this isn't a COC/EE violation to mention these stores by name.

 

I thought they already had, most of the gun shops I see now days are parked in alleys with the trunk lid up.

Quoted: Amazing at it sounds, there are gun stores and FFLs making money.  I know two off the top of my head that recently expanded their stores.  Not the sign of a store going under.

I'm thinking those stores are ones where the owner's buddies aren't hanging over the counter for hours on end smoking cigarettes and shooting the breeze with him and when a customer asks for service the customer feels like he is interrupting a private conversation.

In my area of NY the gun stores are :

1. Overpriced
2. have little in stock
3. offer very poor customer service
4. charge the 8.25% NY tax

I can usualy get a firearm online , pay shipping and tranfer fee and still save around 20-25% off retail.

Accesories are even worse , most gunstores sell 6P's for $85-$90 around here !

 I think for a gunstore to thrive today they have to strike a balance between traditional walk in sales, internet sales, and niche gun sales. One of our stores is like that. He sells stuff face to face and will take your quality trades, he also lists guns on the net, and has a niche of high end shotguns and antiques good stuff. He will do transfers if the gun you want is out of production. If it is a production item he won't do it.
His way of doing things seems to be working for him and he takes in some nice stuff on trades. Guys with older stuff know he will deal with them. His prices are a little higher than the other good shop in town, but the other guy has all current stuff, gives you 50 cents on the dollar on trades, and won't deal on antiques unless they are Winchesters or old Colts.

I wouldn't expect them to disappear but I do expect transfer fees to keep getting higher and higher as internet sales increase and cut into their action.

Quoted: I wouldn't expect them to disappear but I do expect transfer fees to keep getting higher and higher as internet sales increase and cut into their action.

+1

I go to a shop just for transfers because he is very cheap. He can do the transfers for almost nothing because he has a lot of clueless people come in and pay top dollar for junk. I was in there once and a guy came in and paid 500 big ones for a WASR. Another time someone bought a Polish Mak for 275. If his sales take a dump, I am sure he will start charging more for transfers. But as long as there are clueless people buying guns at those prices he will always be in buisness. He would rather sell one gun a day and make 200 bucks profit than sell 10 guns and make 30-40 profit each

colt:   shop's don't  "charge" sales tax.

They COLLECT sales tax at ZERO profit for themselves. they are guilty untill proven inocent by the state board of equellization.

if they GIVE something away the state expects the store to pay the retail value of the tax ie if they give you a free mag with the purchase of a ar the state will expect the retailer to pay 8.25 on
$29.99 mag....even if the mag only cost the dealer $18.79

the best sign that I ever saw at a shop said "we don't charge sales tax---but we collect it for the state."

Where I am from there is one central distributer that stocks all the guns, the gun stores order from this central distributor. I think that in some areas we are going to start seeing this kind of setup.

Advantage: You can get what you want.
                   Faster order times.

Disadvantage: Manufacturer+Distributor+Store owner/Gunshop = Higher prices!

I will have to check in on it! To my knowledge though all the Gunstores in my area have to order through the distributor. They are not allowed to order directely from a manufacturer. I do not know if it is local, a state thing or, just a coop type thing.

Pretty much a lot of places going under.

What a lot of people are failing to remember is when they are all gone there will be NOBODY to receive that gun from that awesome online site.

Quoted: I'm starting a gun store in Holden, Missouri at the end of the month, as a nights and weekends project.  Its called Missouri Custom Armament and we're an 07 manufacturer.  I'm honestly hoping that most of our business is online, but foot traffic is welcome too.  Alot of how I want to run my gunstore is based on good and bad experiences with various shops and FFLs including working for a couple of brick-and-mortar places, and the firm belief that I can do better.

Good for you and good luck.

I plan on getting a C&R license and eventually an FFL so I can do business with friends and family. Most business will be by word of mouth, maybe an ad in the paper or something.

Basically I'll start just ordering a specific gun for a specific person and work my way up from there. Eventually I hope to retire from whatever job I have (history teacher, most likely) and take up space behind the counter of my own gun store making sure people get guns without bullshit attached.

Largely due to Arfcom and similar sites, gun owners knowledge base has improved to the point where people are willing to do their own work. A rich source of easy money went away for good. Who knows how many kits were purchased, assembled on kitchen tables and sold as factory guns in small gunshops around the country.

Quoted: I plan on getting a C&R license and eventually an FFL so I can do business with friends and family. Most business will be by word of mouth, maybe an ad in the paper or something. Basically I'll start just ordering a specific gun for a specific person and work my way up from there. Eventually I hope to retire from whatever job I have (history teacher, most likely) and take up space behind the counter of my own gun store making sure people get guns without bullshit attached.

And that is grounds for denial of your application by ATF.

Acquantence and Hobby FFLs are specifically not permitted.

The key words are "in business for profit."

Quoted: Quoted: I plan on getting a C&R license and eventually an FFL so I can do business with friends and family. Most business will be by word of mouth, maybe an ad in the paper or something. Basically I'll start just ordering a specific gun for a specific person and work my way up from there. Eventually I hope to retire from whatever job I have (history teacher, most likely) and take up space behind the counter of my own gun store making sure people get guns without bullshit attached. And that is grounds for denial of your application by ATF. Acquantence and Hobby FFLs are specifically not permitted. The key words are "in business for profit."

I am in business for profit. I'll start by taking money from people I know and go from there. Like I said, I plan on advertising through word of mouth from my customers.

For chains, Sportsmans Warehouse is expanding, I can't wait for the one to open up here.  Not your local mom and pop, but a broad inventory and 1000% less annonying or overpriced than general sporting-goods chains like Dicks or Gart.  Acceptable prices on guns, ammo that is actually in stock, a good complement to what may be obtained online from the vendors here.  Academy is big in TX and OK, don't know if they are moving into other markets.   Cabelas is just too damn big, and only in select locations.  Bass Pro is big too, and also only in select locations.  I can't imagine buying a firearm from the latter two.

Other than that I can name one shop in CO (haven't been to all of course) that I really liked.  Not a large store, not a huge inventory, but  the people behind the counter were helpful and friendly.  Its a good thing they are a long drive away, or I would be even more poor.  (they are registered here as a vendor, Jensen Arms).

me: how much for a stripped lower
gunstore: *flipping through bushmaster catalog*  Uh... $350

me:  I'll think about that...

I try to spend the majority of my gun budget at local stores that have ranges.  Sure, I might save a few bucks on a gun buying it online, but I prefer to support businesses that provide a place to shoot.

Quoted: Price is not my primary selection criteria for selecting someone to do business with.

+1 I dont mind spending and extra 20-50 if I know the shop is a good one and the rep knows his stuff. Its good to haev a solid reputable shop around and well worth the extra $$.

Quoted: What the internet is really killing is the gunshow.  Its so sad to see the same guys dragging the same dusty overpriced crap from show to show, hoping against hope that someone will still pay $1500 for a "pre-ban" Colt because they don't realize the AWB sunsetted over a year ago.  Pathetic.

Amen to that!  I can't even go to gun shows around MO anymore.  There will be like 2 AR's and an SKS there, way the heck overpriced.  Everything else is "dad's huntin' rifle" stuff that no one wants to see anyway.  

It looks like a tough business to me. A gun store will be selling in two distinct markets: firearms and firearm accessories.

A small store has some protection on firearms sales, since all new sales have to go through an FFL. Without that the manufacturers could sell over the internet directly to consumers or through big chains. ("Disintermediation" in the B-school lingo.) Even then the margin on firearms is pretty thin.

Firearms accessories are a different matter. You can buy those anywhere on the internet and don't have to go through a licensed dealer. I don't think any shop can compete on price with that. What's more a lot of the items have a small market in any given area. There are probably only a few people looking for accessories for any given firearm on a weekend, and dealers can stock only those that serve the very biggest markets. This also implies that the dealers have to carry a lot of inventory with low turnover. Compare that to a big site like lightfighter.com and the economics just don't work out. No dealer is going to pay $500 for a scope or reloading equipment and keep it in inventory for two years before a sale.

I think traditionally the brick-and-mortar shops were kept alive by high-margin accessory sales, and the internet is pretty completely killing that off. So dealers have to try to make it on gun sales alone, and that's very hard to do; there's a lot of price information on the internet, and a lot of kitchen table dealers who will do transfers for $50.

Quoted: me: how much for a stripped lower gunstore: *flipping through bushmaster catalog*  Uh... $350 me:  I'll think about that...

Nice to see a person that likes nature and sex. Took a fucking hike, didn't you?

Quoted: Quoted: me: how much for a stripped lower gunstore: *flipping through bushmaster catalog*  Uh... $350 me:  I'll think about that... Nice to see a person that likes nature and sex. Took a fucking hike, didn't you?

Truly LOL'ed at that one.

I went to the local shop yesterday looking for a complete RRA lower, REALLY wanted to give the guy my business too. He's a nice guy, very helpful, and there's always black rifles around, it's not a store trapped in time like most around here.

I ended up walking as well, he wanted $350 for the only one he had in stock. I'll probably just end up buying a Stag.

None of you guys have ever been to Denny's have you?  They have TONS of stuff, and the prices aren't stupid high on most of it.  And they are 10 minutes from my house

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I plan on getting a C&R license and eventually an FFL so I can do business with friends and family. Most business will be by word of mouth, maybe an ad in the paper or something. Basically I'll start just ordering a specific gun for a specific person and work my way up from there. Eventually I hope to retire from whatever job I have (history teacher, most likely) and take up space behind the counter of my own gun store making sure people get guns without bullshit attached. And that is grounds for denial of your application by ATF. Acquantence and Hobby FFLs are specifically not permitted. The key words are "in business for profit." I am in business for profit. I'll start by taking money from people I know and go from there. Like I said, I plan on advertising through word of mouth from my customers.

I'm just trying to help.

If you explain to ATF that you want to do acquantance sales you won't get your FFL.

There are specific questions on the application regarding what you stated you want to do.

Quoted: Quoted: me: how much for a stripped lower gunstore: *flipping through bushmaster catalog*  Uh... $350 me:  I'll think about that... Nice to see a person that likes nature and sex. Took a fucking hike, didn't you?

First time I heard that one, heh!

The guy is a nice guy, so I tried to explain you can buy factory new stripped lowers off the 'net for like $85 a pop, but he said he didn't trust the 'no namers' but that I could transfer some in for the standard $40 ffl fee.  Thats what I ended up doing.

No the internet is not killing the store-front gun shops. Federal and state regulation is, starting with the FFL requirements which restrict competition. Without competition and with overregulation, store-front gun shops don't adapt to customer needs as rapidly as necessary. Regulation slowly kills the heath of industries it attempts to improve... never happens.

Quoted: Price is not my primary selection criteria for selecting someone to do business with.

Unless you are infinitely rich and thus, financial planning and budgeting means nothing to you, I call this




Of course, if you are not rich, financial planning and budgeting may still mean nothing as you get over your head in debt and head towards bankruptcy.

Well, the shop my brother runs (which I and his wife work in) does pretty good.
Pricing and good customer service is what makes sales. Even if it is something we don't have on the shelf. All 3 of us spend a good deal of time reading and research new firearms so that we can give good info to potential customers.
First half of the year he sold every glock he could get his hands on in his stocking dealer package and then some. Why? because instead of a 30-35% profit margin we usually make about 15 - 20%.
On just about everything. For him the internet hasn't hurt him as much as some place because where his shop is located is a pretty rural area (not everyone has the internet).The majority of his sales are hunting firearms and pistols. I could probably count on two hands the number of AR's and "military" style weapons he has sold. (most of which were bought by me). On occasion we get some higher end sales. But for the prices he offers most people don't mind the wait.
We've expanded in to offering monthly concealed carry classes. Are completing a range for our customers with handgun and rifle target areas.
We do repairs, refinishing and some minor amorer services.

From working with some of the other dealers in our area we help each other.
We/he specializes in hunting ammo/firearms, some of the other guys are more into the ak's/ar's fal's.
When someone wants one of those we check prices for them, and let them know what we can do. If they have money in hand and want something today we'll send them to the other guy. and Vice versa.
We use the internet for our customers to help them reasearch firearms, and help then make the best purchase for their $$$$ we can provide.

It's all about making the best of your situation and market. You have to pay attention to new ideas, and firearms as they come out.And most importantly what your customers are asking for. When you constantly have repeat customers and continue to bring in new ones whether from advertising or simply word of mouth you're doing what you need to do.

If Finances allow in the future we do plan on expanding into the AR area if the market is there.

Quoted: Quoted: Price is not my primary selection criteria for selecting someone to do business with. Unless you are infinitely rich and thus, financial planning and budgeting means nothing to you, I call this Of course, if you are not rich, financial planning and budgeting may still mean nothing as you get over your head in debt and head towards bankruptcy.

Price is a factor but I will quickly spend a little more with a business I like and want to support rather than giving my money to some asshole. If there aren't any real gun shops in the future who will receive our transfers ? Ah wait, it is all starting to make sense now, their plan is coming together

Quoted: Quoted: I see lack of customer service, prices and selection killing stores yup.

Bingo

People can surf for product and price now, and in a matter of a day or 2, have whatever they want.

Including complete firearms.

Count me among the net customers