Well, I'm leaving for vacation on Friday and just found out that my airline, USA3000, doesn't allow firearms of any kind through your checked luggage.  So, I'm pissed to say the least. Anyway, my question is, what is UPS's policy or procedure for shipping a pistol and ammo?  Is it even legal or not?  Thanks for the responses.  

Shit, I tried to ship out the internals to my 1919 out to get machined and the freakin UPS store wouldn't let me ship them out because they were "gun related". Said it's their policy. Assholes

Long guns, you can ship both UPS and USPS, handguns have to go UPS (or other carrier like FedEx).  I believe that UPS requires that firearms go through their main offices, and not just any UPS location - so it's up to you whether you tell them or not.  (If you don't tell them, it's not like you're violating a law or anything, just irritating company policy - and that way you can just drop it at a local UPS store).  

You can ship it addressed to yourself, care-of wherever you are staying (no FFL is necessary).


Good luck.

Quoted: Shit, I tried to ship out the internals to my 1919 out to get machined and the freakin UPS store wouldn't let me ship them out because they were "gun related". Said it's their policy. Assholes

USPS your parts. No problems even encountered there.

Quoted: Long guns, you can ship both UPS and USPS, handguns have to go UPS (or other carrier like FedEx).  I believe that UPS requires that firearms go through their main offices, and not just any UPS location - so it's up to you whether you tell them or not.  (If you don't tell them, it's not like you're violating a law or anything, just irritating company policy - and that way you can just drop it at a local UPS store).   You can ship it addressed to yourself, care-of wherever you are staying (no FFL is necessary). Good luck.

Thanks very much, I can ship it right from work then.  But what about the ammo. Should I put that right in the same box as the pistol?  Who will know right.

Quoted: Quoted: Long guns, you can ship both UPS and USPS, handguns have to go UPS (or other carrier like FedEx).  I believe that UPS requires that firearms go through their main offices, and not just any UPS location - so it's up to you whether you tell them or not.  (If you don't tell them, it's not like you're violating a law or anything, just irritating company policy - and that way you can just drop it at a local UPS store).   You can ship it addressed to yourself, care-of wherever you are staying (no FFL is necessary). Good luck. thanks very much.  How about the ammo?  Should I put that in the same box as the pistol?  Who will know right.

Just buy some ammo when you get there. The extra cost to ship ammo (haz mat fees} aren't worth it.

Have been using FEd Ex lately. UPS is not worth the hassle if its a firearm.

If you ship a firearm via a common carrier (UPS, FedEX etc) to a non-licensee you are required to inform the shipper that the package contains a firearm. You are also required to send it "adult signature required."  You cannot ship ammunition in the same package with the firearm. If you are shipping it to a FFL then no notice is required.

If you are shipping ammunition via a ground common carrier there are no haz-mat fees. The shipping container must be labeled "ORM-D - Cartridges, Small Arms."  You cannot ship ammunition via the USPS.

UPS "stores" are not UPS and are prohibited from accepting firearms or ammunition for shipment. You must use a UPS counter or a daily pickup account at a gun store etc. The specific regulations are on the UPS website.

how does UPS or anyone else know what is inside of each box?  

I have a UPS daily pick-up account at my store.  In simple terms, can I ship out a handgun and ammo(separate boxes if necessary) to myself in PA?

Quoted: how does UPS or anyone else know what is inside of each box?

They don't.

However, if it gets lost, and we all know it happens, you will be SOL if it wasn't insured. In order to insure it, you have to claim what is in the box and it will be inspected.

Quoted: Quoted: how does UPS or anyone else know what is inside of each box?   They don't. However, if it gets lost, and we all know it happens, you will be SOL if it wasn't insured. In order to insure it, you have to claim what is in the box and it will be inspected.

Of course, I just want to make sure that they don't know what's in each box.  I am so pissed right now, I don't know how the hell I'm going to get my pistol up to PA for my vaca next week.  Has anyone ever heard of an airline not accepting firearms in their checked luggage?  I've flown Delta and USAirways, and not one problem.

Quoted: I have a UPS daily pick-up account at my store.  In simple terms, can I ship out a handgun and ammo(separate boxes if necessary) to myself in PA?

Legally - yes if you inform the shipper that it is a firearm and the ammunition is properly marked. UPS (by UPS policy) requires next day air service for handguns. The "informing/marking" requirements are Federal law and not UPS policy. The UPS driver might not accept the packages though.

Yes there are a number of airlines who refuse to allow firearms in checked baggage.

It is legal to mail (longguns only) or ship your firearms to yourself in another state.

This is addressed in the FAQ on BATF website.

Suppose I took the frame and slide off and send out two different packages.  That would be just fine, right?  I could also include a box of ammo in one of the boxes, since they don't contain a firearm technically.

The frame is the firearm. The slide is just parts.

Quoted: Well, I'm leaving for vacation on Friday and just found out that my airline, USA3000, doesn't allow firearms of any kind through your checked luggage.

What the FUCK?  I've never heard of an airline that wouldn't allow you to check firearms!  Of course, I've never heard of USA3000 either...

FedEx told me that I could not send it to myself in another state...hmmm
UPS told me it was ok.

I called them and told them I had tickets with them, but after finding out about their firearms policy (which I confirmed with the guy on the phone) I would be getting a refund and never using them again.  (Yes, I lied...I had never even heard of them.)  

Quoted: Quoted: Well, I'm leaving for vacation on Friday and just found out that my airline, USA3000, doesn't allow firearms of any kind through your checked luggage.   What the FUCK?  I've never heard of an airline that wouldn't allow you to check firearms!  Of course, I've never heard of USA3000 either...

Tell me about it.  Im madder than a wet hornet.  But anyway, I'll be breaking the gun into two parts, slide in one box, frame in another.  I'll be including a box of ammo in the box with the slide.  Yea, I know that the frame still constitutes a firearm, but I don't care. I'm sending it out from my UPS daily pick-up account at my store next day air.  I'll do the same thing for sending it back.  Fuck them all.  Who the hell is going to know anyway.

Quoted: Quoted: I have a UPS daily pick-up account at my store.  In simple terms, can I ship out a handgun and ammo(separate boxes if necessary) to myself in PA? Legally - yes if you inform the shipper that it is a firearm and the ammunition is properly marked. UPS (by UPS policy) requires next day air service for handguns. The "informing/marking" requirements are Federal law and not UPS policy. The UPS driver might not accept the packages though.

Can you point to the federal law that specifically requires informing the carrier ??

I know that a dealer who ships regularly (at least through USPS) is required to have paperwork on file, and my interpretation of the postal regulations make me think that you are required to inform USPS(and I know some people on arfcom disagree with me on that one) - but I don't know of any federal law that states that a private citizen is required to inform the shipper when sending a firearm UPS or FedEx.  


I was actually pretty sure of that - so I really want to KNOW if I am wrong. Thanks.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have a UPS daily pick-up account at my store.  In simple terms, can I ship out a handgun and ammo(separate boxes if necessary) to myself in PA? Legally - yes if you inform the shipper that it is a firearm and the ammunition is properly marked. UPS (by UPS policy) requires next day air service for handguns. The "informing/marking" requirements are Federal law and not UPS policy. The UPS driver might not accept the packages though. Can you point to the federal law that specifically requires informing the carrier ?? I know that a dealer who ships regularly (at least through USPS) is required to have paperwork on file, and my interpretation of the postal regulations make me think that you are required to inform USPS(and I know some people on arfcom disagree with me on that one) - but I don't know of any federal law that states that a private citizen is required to inform the shipper when sending a firearm UPS or FedEx.   I was actually pretty sure of that - so I really want to KNOW if I am wrong. Thanks.

I don't have a link to it, but I've read it.  It says if you use a common carrier (which UPS and FedEX are) you have to notify them.  (And BTW you're still wrong about the post office thing.    )

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have a UPS daily pick-up account at my store.  In simple terms, can I ship out a handgun and ammo(separate boxes if necessary) to myself in PA? Legally - yes if you inform the shipper that it is a firearm and the ammunition is properly marked. UPS (by UPS policy) requires next day air service for handguns. The "informing/marking" requirements are Federal law and not UPS policy. The UPS driver might not accept the packages though. Can you point to the federal law that specifically requires informing the carrier ?? I know that a dealer who ships regularly (at least through USPS) is required to have paperwork on file, and my interpretation of the postal regulations make me think that you are required to inform USPS(and I know some people on arfcom disagree with me on that one) - but I don't know of any federal law that states that a private citizen is required to inform the shipper when sending a firearm UPS or FedEx.   I was actually pretty sure of that - so I really want to KNOW if I am wrong. Thanks. I don't have a link to it, but I've read it.  It says if you use a common carrier (which UPS and FedEX are) you have to notify them.  (And BTW you're still wrong about the post office thing.    )

I'll take your word for it !  


So I guess this means that dropping handguns in the FedEx drop box is a bad idea?  It made what I interpreted to be an apporoving sound when the lid shut!

A gun/hunting writer I knew(just passed away) told me, when shipping a firearm to yourself or someone else install a metal shipping band around the container. That way you know the container will not come open and you will also know if someone has messed with it.

I know another friend that hunts up north(colorado to canada), he ships ups/fedex to himself care of the guide or friend he stays with. He has no problems and he seals his gun case with a steel band.

USA3000's anti-gun stance was covered in 2004 by the NRA.
nraila.com/NEWS/read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=3556

It's also been in the news....


Airline refuses to transport trap shooter's gun

By Craig Smith
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, March 22, 2004

James Mautino concedes that the idea of carrying a shotgun onto an airplane might sound a little crazy in the midst of a war on terrorism.

But that's how trap shooters get from tournament to tournament. And it's allowed by many air carriers serving the United States and some foreign countries.

Mautino, of North Huntingdon Township, planned to compete in a national trap shooting contest last week at the largest gun club in Odessa, Fla. He didn't expect any problem, because he'd flown with his $12,000 Perazzi combo shotgun to the Sunshine State two weeks before.

Mautino had planned to drive to Florida, but Old Man Winter reared his ugly head and the 61-year-old didn't like the idea of getting stranded in the snow. So he found an ad for Pittsburgh's newest discount airline and shelled out $232 for a round-trip ticket to Tampa.  

"It was a last-minute deal, the answer to a problem," he said.

Mautino got up at 4 a.m. Tuesday, drove to Pittsburgh International Airport and made his way to the check-in counter at USA 3000 Airlines. "I told them who I was and that I had to check a firearm," he said.

He was told that the airline doesn't carry firearms.

"I said, 'Whoa, we've got a problem,'" Mautino said.

USA 3000 Airlines, owned and operated by Apple Vacations, will not transport shotguns or ammunition. The policy is not widely broadcast, but it is stated on the company's Web site.

The airline, based in Newtown Square, Delaware County, decided not to carry firearms as it focused on its primary business of transporting leisure travelers to sunny destinations, Spokesman Trevor Sadler said. The company, started more than two years ago with two planes, now has a fleet of 10.

"We made a conscious decision to not do that at this time," Sadler said, adding that the policy is under review. He couldn't say if or when it might change.

Eventually, a customer service representative at the company's headquarters promised Mautino a refund.

"I can't even imagine this policy for an airline that's trying to build something in Pennsylvania -- the sportsman state of the nation," he said.

The Amateur Trap shooting Association, or ATA, says Pennsylvania leads all other states when it comes to trap shooting. Some 7 million targets are shot in the Keystone State each year.

And the number of gun enthusiasts in Pennsylvania is growing. More than 100,000 are expected to attend the National Rifle Association's annual convention in Pittsburgh next month.

Mautino could have switched to another airline but the fare would have been nearly $1,200, he said, because he didn't book his flight in advance.

Other airlines do allow travelers to check sporting firearms. Gun owners who fly Continental Airlines, for instance, can check as "one" piece of baggage a rifle case with as many as two rifles, with or without scopes; 11 pounds of ammunition; and a shooting mat, noise suppressors and small weapon tools.

Midwest Airlines does not require any additional requirements beyond the federal government's guidelines for checking firearms, which include a signed declaration that the firearm in unloaded and stored in a hard-sided container.

"Here I sit; the competition is going on," Mautino said, adding that successful trap shooters can win $4,000 to $5,000 per event. As he spoke, the Perazzi sat, disassembled, in its hard-sided case nearby.

Officials at the ATA, based in Vandalia, Ohio, said they have not heard any complaints about USA 3000 Airlines and know of no other airline that bans firearms altogether.

A National Rifle Association spokesman said USA 3000's policy was brought to the NRA's attention by one other gun owner who was affected by it.

"Our position is, basically, as a private company they have the right to throw away business," said John Frazer, a federal lobbyist who follows the issue of gun transportation for the NRA.

The government revised the gun transport policy after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, but there was little impact on sporting weapons, he said.

Mautino came to trap shooting after stints in the movie and carmaking businesses. He worked at MGM in Culver City, Calif., from 1961 to 1970 as an optical technician doing special effects. He returned to Pennsylvania and worked for Volkswagen at its former plant near New Stanton.

He then launched Tri-State Trap & Skeet Co. in North Huntingdon, one of the largest trap shooting stores in the state, and ran it for 25 years before retiring.

"It's been a great life. I love it," Mautino said.

Trap shooting requires a high degree of precision, he explained. The $1,100 triggers on his guns are not "pulled." Instead, they are set before shooting and "let go."

"Letting go uses three muscles as opposed to 67," he said.

Because of stories like Mautino's, competitive trap shooter George Bush III, of Derry Township, stays away from discount airlines, said his mother, Cindy Bush. He hasn't had any problems transporting his gun on full-fare airlines, she said.

George Bush, 18, is attending Lindenwood University in Missouri on a shooting scholarship and flies to competitions throughout the United States from there. In one month's time, he's been to Louisiana, Texas, Florida and back to Texas.

"We know guys who have been stranded at airports," Cindy Bush said.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, I'm leaving for vacation on Friday and just found out that my airline, USA3000, doesn't allow firearms of any kind through your checked luggage.   What the FUCK?  I've never heard of an airline that wouldn't allow you to check firearms!  Of course, I've never heard of USA3000 either... Tell me about it.  Im madder than a wet hornet.  But anyway, I'll be breaking the gun into two parts, slide in one box, frame in another.  I'll be including a box of ammo in the box with the slide.  Yea, I know that the frame still constitutes a firearm, but I don't care. I'm sending it out from my UPS daily pick-up account at my store next day air.  I'll do the same thing for sending it back.  Fuck them all.  Who the hell is going to know anyway.

CUSTOMER SERVICE Had a good flight or an experience you wish to share with us, please send e-mail to [email protected], or a letter to the address below Attn: Customer Services.

Quoted: Shit, I tried to ship out the internals to my 1919 out to get machined and the freakin UPS store wouldn't let me ship them out because they were "gun related". Said it's their policy. Assholes

I think they lied to you.  I've shipped with the UPS store around the corner many times, shipping both firearms and firearm parts.  I've always listed the contents accurately too, and never had a problem.

Quoted: Suppose I took the frame and slide off and send out two different packages.  That would be just fine, right?  I could also include a box of ammo in one of the boxes, since they don't contain a firearm technically.

The frame is still considered a firearm under the eyes of the law.

Remember... they aren't after your duck or trap gun, they just don't like those evil assault weapons.

USA3000?  WTF.  Why didn't you just go with a more upscale, established airline like ValueJet- Oops, sorry,  I mean Airtran.  

Seriously, next time stick with an established airline.  Even if you need to save every buck, you should shop around more.  Do a little research.  You have tons of discounters in your market.  

Quoted: my airline, USA3000, doesn't allow firearms of any kind through your checked luggage.

Never heard of this airline, and I fly 50 - 75K miles per year.  You should stick to real airlines, like America West, Southwest, American, Delta, United, US Air, Northwest, etc., etc.. all of which have estabilished policies for firearms in checked luggage.

Quoted: Can you point to the federal law that specifically requires informing the carrier ?? I know that a dealer who ships regularly (at least through USPS) is required to have paperwork on file, and my interpretation of the postal regulations make me think that you are required to inform USPS(and I know some people on arfcom disagree with me on that one) - but I don't know of any federal law that states that a private citizen is required to inform the shipper when sending a firearm UPS or FedEx.   I was actually pretty sure of that - so I really want to KNOW if I am wrong. Thanks.

This regulation applies to a common/contract carrier and not the USPS. You are required to notify UPS, FedEx etc. when shipping a firearm to yourself or any unlicensed person. If you are shipping a firearm to a FFL you are not required to inform the common carrier.


[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 27, Volume 2]
[Revised as of April 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 27CFR478.31]

[Page 115-116]

           TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS

  CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
                         DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

        Subpart C--Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions

Sec. 478.31  Delivery by common or contract carrier.

   (a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger
who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported
aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate
or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the
custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or
contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any
provision of this part.
   (b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label,
tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or
other container contains a firearm.
   (c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge
or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or
receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part:
Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply
in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond
shipment under Customs laws and regulations.
   (d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written
acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other
container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph
shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger
who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the
trip.

[33 FR 18555, Dec. 14, 1968. Redesignated at 40 FR 16385, Apr. 15, 1975,
and amended by T.D. ATF-354, 59 FR 7112, Feb. 14, 1994; T.D. ATF-361, 60
FR 10786, Feb. 27, 1995]

Sec. 478.31  Delivery by common or contract carrier

Quoted: Quoted: Can you point to the federal law that specifically requires informing the carrier ?? I know that a dealer who ships regularly (at least through USPS) is required to have paperwork on file, and my interpretation of the postal regulations make me think that you are required to inform USPS(and I know some people on arfcom disagree with me on that one) - but I don't know of any federal law that states that a private citizen is required to inform the shipper when sending a firearm UPS or FedEx.   I was actually pretty sure of that - so I really want to KNOW if I am wrong. Thanks. This regulation applies to a common/contract carrier and not the USPS. You are required to notify UPS, FedEx etc. when shipping a firearm to yourself or any unlicensed person. If you are shipping a firearm to a FFL you are not required to inform the common carrier. [Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 27, Volume 2] [Revised as of April 1, 2003] From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 27CFR478.31] [Page 115-116]            TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS   CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,                          DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE PART 478--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents         Subpart C--Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions Sec. 478.31  Delivery by common or contract carrier.    (a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.    (b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.    (c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part: Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond shipment under Customs laws and regulations.    (d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the trip. [33 FR 18555, Dec. 14, 1968. Redesignated at 40 FR 16385, Apr. 15, 1975, and amended by T.D. ATF-354, 59 FR 7112, Feb. 14, 1994; T.D. ATF-361, 60 FR 10786, Feb. 27, 1995] Sec. 478.31  Delivery by common or contract carrier

Duh - I was looking at that very paragraph, but had forgotten that we were talking about shipping to oneself.  

Thanks!

Quoted: Duh - I was looking at that very paragraph, but had forgotten that we were talking about shipping to oneself.   Thanks!

We need one with a wooden shoe just for you.