Sad but true, I have to admit. I see alot of Internet blowhards say otherwise, but I haven't seen any actions that would make even the teeniest difference, lately.
I have an addition to this discussion; found it years ago, pasted here:
will there be a rebellion?
by zog
Much talk about Constitutional rights,civil rights, gun rights, tax rights, land-use rights, etc. This mythical line in the sand, but beyond some letters to the editor and donating money to gun rights orgs and some voting action, no real "action" ever, and will there be? This is the actual bottom line question. Let's examine it in a little more real-life depth.
In a civil war/ rebellion such as this, there are no "front lines", none evident.
. The front lines might be your nosy neighbor, it might be that census worker you whizzed off after they whizzed you off, might be the local deppity who's related to your neighbor next door, you know him as a human being, but one who participates in "no knock" raids, and who has put people in jail for "illegal firearms ownership" maybe, or who "mans a roadblock". That's one of the people you'd have to shoot. It might be the local teevee talking head who daily spouts lies, and then fails to spout any truth about the scandals, or keeps insisting to you that the football scores are always more important than anything else, that's another one might have to be shot. It might be your own preacher, who is always spouting that "render unto caesar" crap. He might need to be shot. It might be a relative of yours, who works as a data clerk in charge of "that file" that the fat boy's institute has courtesy of carnivore and echelon. Maybe it's your own "boss" at work, who gives huge amounts of "campaign" bribe money to these politicians, he might need to be shot. Maybe that grandma you know, lives across the street, works in that little office downtown, processing "paper work" for various dubious "permits" for this or that that violate your "born with" rights, but she's just "doing her job", and she's a grandma, but she might need to be shot, too.
This is why no shooting has happened yet, and isn't likely, not on any scale, and not anytime soon, because THOSE and more are the folks who would "need to be shot", because they are all part of "the system" in general that is the system of oppression. Pretty easy to talk about it when it's say-iraq or china or the old boogieman russia, but not when it's "here". those "boogiemen" were and are all made up of various "humans" who did this or that to help along "the system" whether directly or indirectly. There is no such thin as a "government" as something you can drag off to the side and point at, this is a big lie. There's "human beings".
It's not only the public darth vader JBT's of the pictures, the elian grabbers, or the ones who raised the batf flag over the waco "compound" while it was still burning and the people inside where still cooking to death. Those latter are just the most obvious ones, easiest to spot, or the very public goon anti freedom politicians on teevee, again, the easiest to spot, but it's "the others" that need it even more, if you really want to get down and dirty about it.
Who knows, I suspect all of the above. I most definetly hold some members of the media partly "responsible". their first amendment "rights" to free speech on the monopolised airwaves have been abused against the people when they FAIL to shout FIRE when it needs to be shouted, and they have really failed on this one, big time.
If there are clearcut flames spreading, one does not waste time on idle hollywood gossip talk, or to on-purposely ignore the actions of "the arsonists" who have set that fire in favor of carefully analysing "the big game". but they do, because that's what "the people" really want the most.
There may be technically 80 million "gun owners" in this country, but I doubt if there are even one million GUN OWNERS, I doubt a hundred thousand, maybe even only ten thousand, tops. There's a very clear and distinct difference.
I still like the "window glass war" concept as a first step, but it may be just too late for even that, especially if the clinton/gore regime remains in power.
With "the bushes", you have this "openly a friend of the gun owner and self defense", but then the continuation and full implmentation of the thousands of "gun laws" out there, including the most heinous ones of new york city, washington dc, and of los angeles and california. Bush wants even those laws "enforced", and the federal "project exile", he openly stated this in the debates.
Yes, he "signed into law" a concealed carry in Texas, and "so what" I say, when he could have "signed into law" just a re-affirmation of the vermont style gun law, which is basically no gun laws except the second amendment, unless you screw up aggressively with ownership or "bearing" of arms, which is as it should be. But even vermont is one step short, because they "signed on to" the federal laws starting in 34. Too bad, that was the real good time to fight it, but it didn't happen back then, not my generation's fault on that one, the generation that fought overseas, the "doughboys" to "liberate" this or that country sorta forgot to "liberate" their own country when they got back, they caved in. And it continues to this day. Grandpa's generation,then dad's generation dropped the ball on that one, they, like my generation of "boomers", and the gen x's, had making money, insuring security at home economically, professional sports, music tickets and concerts, and having as shiny new car as "more important", even though it's the same Constitution now as then, the same words then as now. Those generations complain about this new "younger" generation "not knowing" the Constitution, well, let's just back up a little on that one, shall we? We got three full generations of chest beaters now, beating chest and then they keep walking backwards, and are gradually lowering their gaze as the king walks by. We are at the "curtsey and kneeling" stage now, but we got there after those previous generations allowed some pretty strange 'domestic" laws to be "passed and enforced". Ya, fought bravely OVERSEAS, well and good, but not "at home" it appears, not at home. I don't think this is disputable either, not really, if you think on it some.
I guess we shall see who does what. I expect some fairly strange edicts and executive orders spewed no matter who "wins" this election, because I DON'T see the uS patriot "winning" in the "polls", nor are either of the two front running gents in that class of people known as "patriots" near as I can see. I see two rich guys who have around the clock machine gun armed bodyguards, who have private jets, mansions, prestige, power,free money willingly given to them for political favors, who have ties to foreign governments and massive transnational money as their first loyalties. If you can't see that, sorry, but you are technically "blind" then.
They each spout some words to appeal to one side or the other of the middle, the middle that could care less about "freedom" except the freedom to go to the store and buy cheap stuff, and to have 24 hour a day "entertainment". It doesn't matter if that person espouses this or that, or if their taste in music is "techno", or "rap" or "rock" or "gospel" or "country and western", not really, not down where it counts, and it sure isn't being counted, either. That's about it. The vast "middle" in this country is just as clueless about the Constitution as any normal tv talking head, they honestly do not know, nor do they care much even if they do, nor will they do anything about it that is going to make much oif a difference in the long run, or even the short run now. They want cheap gas, cheap beer, cheap stuff at walmart, professional sports to an obsessive level, cheap and free addictive drugs from the transnational pharmco conglomerates, and a lot of credit to keep funding their "lifestyle" that is their only birthright they think they are apparently "born with".
The average middle "guy" if such a creature exists, or even someone more to one end or the other of the political spectrum, is way more interested in whether or not his "team" wins on the weekend, or monday night, or how his "stock" is doing, or whether he can talk the spouse into going into debt for a new shiny SUV, whether he "owns a gun" or not. Anyone can clearly see that this is "true",it just "is".
I imagine a few hundred thousand in this country would possibly "fight" if more and more gun laws are "passed". If that many. None of them-ok, a very few in number tiny exceptions- have "fought" yet so far in california or new jersey or new york city or washington dc or los angeles. There has been no shooting of federal bureaucrats or armed agents enforcing the land grabs out west, or making off limits to "normal human" use of the federal lands. Some protests, yes, of course, but no shootings. Signs waved, even a "shovel brigade", but all those shovelers own guns I bet. the kings taxmen continue their daily tribute-taking, un opposed. the "people" still slow down for the roadblocks. On and on. As long as right down where the rubber meets the road, where bureaucrat and bureaucrat's armed agent go and "enforce" this or that weird law, and they don't get shot, all of "this" will continue. As long as any judge can actually put someone in jail merely for possession of some firearm, then it will continue. As long as roadblocks for seatbelts or dui continue un challenged by arms. As long as no-knock raids kill people and nothing happens to those perps except "paid administrative leave pending an investigation". As long as the taxmen can threaten and intimidate. As long as the military keeps going off and fighting in foreign wars against some "dictator" over there, but sorta forgets about the ones we have here, and keep insisting on this "I'm a hero" concept for that in-action here. That's a hard one to swallow, but it's true, too. As long as the cheers in the stadium are louder than the voices raised over the illegalities, then it will continue.
The chip away plan has been working, not as fast as the chipper - awayers would like it to work, but it HAS worked remarkably well for "them".
Now IF "they" make some really weird boneheaded move that turns up the heat on the boiling frog a little too fast, then maybe "it" will happen, but not if "they" keep doing what they are doing, and a really large part of "the plan" is to keep increasing the numbers of who this "they" is and are. At best we'll get the australian example, massive turn in's, a lot of guys bury theirs, but no one shot. "They" won't even have to do a house to house, what a lot of guys are waiting for it appears, that's "their" bottom line drawn on the sand.
Well, the goons know this, so they won't do it, they'll just scare you into waiting to that point, then they win by default, and it's worked so far, hasn't it? If I'm wrong, where's the fighting going on then? I seem to have missed the reports.
I'm not desparing of this, just looking at human nature. We already have all these "laws", they are enforced, and there's only been a little gun burying. Oh ya, we can send money to someone, and "vote'., uh huh.
Here's another one, a bit of reality, in a lot of families, there's a split on this issue, one spouse supports full "gun rights", the other wants a lot of gun laws. Now, anyone gonna shoot their spouse? Or how about if your patriotic neighbor knows full well your spouse is a gun grabbing goon, anyone gonna be mad if they shoot your spouse then, or maybe your kid? This is why this is so hard to contemplate, and why it hasn't happend yet, why in australia it didn't happen, because you have to look really hard at who might need to be shot, once it gets beyond theory.
Say you got a daughter in college, no matter what you've ever said, she still supports a "ban" on this or that, maybe your semi you got in the closet full background databases, even a national registration of "you", and elimination of all guns except for single shot shotguns, which must be kept locked up at home, or locked up over at the police station until you "go hunting". Well, she's a "goon" then, sorry, most obviously, and in this "theoretical armed rebellion" she "needs to be shot". Uhh, how's that gonna make "anyone-you" feel then?
I believe I have presented just a smidgen of reality into this question here. And it's another reason I will constantly keep hammering home the "no neutrals" concept, because it's "true" and "real" fact.
In the first secession from "royal" semi-never great-britain, there was a fairly clear "us versus them".
The next one, the war of the right of secession and state's rights, there were still some gross geographical borders evident, and still a pretty good "us versus them". Now, there are none. "Them" is "us".
The "enemy" has you surrounded Mr and Mrs Patriot, even in your own family perhaps. Mr Goon knows this. This is a "good deal" for Mr Goon. He only has to very occassionaly make an example of someone, and he's won. There's no easy way around the realities of an armed rebellion to seize back freedoms and rights stolen, not when the vast majority of freedom lovers have to actually squeeze that trigger on a neighbor or relative, or stand by and "take it" when a relative or neighbor gets their "just desserts" for goonish behavior.
Kinda spooky, isn't it? Who's going to go first? Who's going to "stick to principle" when it's their neighbor or spouse or son or daughter or daddy who "needs to be shot" in this theoretical scenario? Who has that kind of guts? Who has this courage, when it's hard to even "put down" the family pet when "it needs to be done"?
This is exactly why it didn't happen in australia, the example used here to point out how "wimpy" the australian patriots where when they stood down, caved in and "took it". Faced with the reality of the situation, they chose not to shoot their neighbor, spouse, daughter or grandma across the street, when they were and most definetly are "part of the problem". It's not just some vague anti gun politicians, or the JBT's, it's real humans, most of them gradually turned into goons, but they still look and act "human" most of the time, but no one has the guts to confront them, nor do they have their own personal guts to admit that they are in fact "part of the problem". We have no "enemy" because it's all of us or none of us, so far it appears it's "none of us" is the non-enemy, because everyone wants to be or have "the exception to the rule". There won't be a civil war unless there is "an enemy" to fight. We have no enemy, no way to differentiate who is who anymore, do we?
I suggest maybe a massive deployment of mirrors as the only "solution" that "might work", because what's going on now surely isn't.