ANOTHER REASON I DON"T FLY!!!!!

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ANOTHER REASON I DON"T FLY!!!!!

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:11:57 AM EDT

Scary as hell!

ANdy

Greek plane crash firm grounds all planes
08:06am 15th August 2005
What is RSS?

Crash: Black boxes have been located
The budget airline which is popular with Brits has grounded all of its planes in the wake of the crash of one of its Boeing 737 aircraft on Sunday, which killed of all 121 passengers and crew on board.
Many of the bodies recovered from the Greece plane crash were 'frozen solid' after a catastrophic drop in cabin pressure at 35,000ft.

The report reinforces expert opinion that the 121 passengers froze to death at minus 50c after a catastrophic drop in cabin pressure at 35,000ft.

Investigators will today examine the black boxes of the ill-fated flight ZU 522, in a bid to find out exactly what happened on the Helios Airways flight - an airline which carries thousands of Britons on budget trips to Cyprus.

In particular they will want to know why a back-up oxygen supply system for the cockpit crew in the Helios Airways flight apparently failed to work.

The investigators may also draw on the case of the October 1999 Lear Jet crash in American in which top golfer Payne Stewart died.

"The crew could have been overcome very, very quickly if all the systems failed. It may have taken less than 20 seconds," said David Kaminski-Morrow, deputy news editor of internet news service Air Transport Intelligence.

He went on: "The pilots should have had access to a back-up oxygen supply. Planes do sometimes lose cabin pressure and it is a well-practised routine for the crew and passengers to don oxygen masks and for the pilots to take the plane down to an altitude where oxygen levels are all right."

All 121 people on board the flight, including 48 children, are believed to have been killed after the Boeing 737 ploughed into a hill in a mountainous region north of Athens yesterday morning.

The only piece of the plane that remained intact was the tail, with bodies, clothing, and luggage scattered around the wreckage, itself strewn over the hill and into a ravine. Fire chief Christos Smetis said there were no survivors among the 115 passengers and six crew on board the plane.

The devastated families were being given confirmation of the deaths of their loved ones last night at Larnaca airport, a spokesman for the airline said.

The British Foreign Office said it was unable to confirm any passenger details, and the airline spokesman could not say whether any Britons had been on the flight. A colleague said most of the passengers were Greek Cypriots.

In a statement, he said: "Unfortunately, our flight 522 from Larnaca to Athens and Prague carrying 115 passengers and six crew members crashed north of Athens at approximately 12.20pm (10.20am UK time).

He added: "Our thoughts are with the families of those on board at this very difficult time, and we are doing absolutely everything we can within our power to keep people informed about this accident."

Causes unclear

The cause of the crash was unclear, but first indications were that it was apparently due to some type of technical problem - possibly decompression.

The head of the Greek airline safety committee, Akrivos Tsolakis, described it as the "worst accident we've ever had", and speculated that there may have been a problem with the cabin pressure.

After losing touch with the Athens control tower, the Greek air force scrambled two F-16 fighter jets, reports said - standard procedure after an aircraft entering the country's airspace does not respond to radio calls.

Greece's Alpha television channel said Greek air force officials reported that the fighter pilots that intercepted the plane over the Aegean Sea saw one of the pilots slumped unconscious over the controls. They also reported that there was no movement in the cabin.

Sotiris Voutas, a cousin of one of the passengers on the plane, told Alpha that he received a text message from the cousin on his mobile phone minutes before the crash. "He told me the pilots were unconscious ... he said, 'Farewell, cousin, here we're frozen'."

Greek state television quoted Cyprus transport minister Haris Thrasou as saying the plane had problems with decompression in the past. UK- and Cyprus-registered tour operator Libra Holidays Group bought Helios last year.

The low-cost carrier was established as the first independent privately-owned airline in Cyprus in 1999, and operated its first chartered flight to Gatwick in May 2000.

Just a year later, in summer 2001, it fended off competition from more established services when it was deemed to have the best punctuality record of a charter airline which conducted at least 100 flights on ten routes from nine UK airports.

According to the Air Transport Users Council report, between April and October 2001, just 5.6% of Helios flights were more than one hour late and average delays were 13.6 minutes.

Its mission statement pledges: "To operate a profitable low budget airline that will provide to its passengers the highest possible safety, competitive fares and superior level of service."

Steady expansion in routes now mean its small fleet of Boeing B737s operates scheduled flights from Larnaca and Paphos to a range of airports, the majority of which are in the UK, and include Luton, Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, Newcastle, Nottingham, Belfast and Dublin.

Charter service bases are more limited, operating from Humberside, Teeside and Newcastle, as well as other European cities.

An emergency number - 00 357 22 446146 - has been issued for families worried their relatives were on board.

In a statement, plane maker Boeing said: "Boeing offers heartfelt condolences to the families, friends and colleagues of those who were lost on board the Helios Airways 737, which crashed August 14 near Athens, Greece.

"Boeing is sending a team to provide technical assistance to the investigating authorities."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=359274&in_page_id=1770&ito=1490

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:21:50 AM EDT

[#1]

Blew a tire on the plane this morning. Crappy timing since my next stop was home.

So, they have to fly up another wheel assembly, I had to get a rental car and drive an hour to get home vs. an 8 minute flight in the plane to get home...........

driving sucks.

vmax84

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:25:08 AM EDT

[#2]

Well, I will start flying again..I get to take my ninja stars, razor blades, ice picks and corkscrews again juat to get me through the gates .10% faster, shoes will not come off unless I set off the detector..wwhich is cool, the C4 is filled with metal.

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:27:08 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Well, I will start flying again..I get to take my ninja stars, razor blades, ice picks and corkscrews again juat to get me through the gates .10% faster, shoes will not come off unless I set off the detector..wwhich is cool, the C4 is filled with metal.

Isn't that absolutely incredible? The talking heads (even on fox) we're defending this. Absolutely effing incredible. Knifes up to 5".

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:30:42 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, I will start flying again..I get to take my ninja stars, razor blades, ice picks and corkscrews again juat to get me through the gates .10% faster, shoes will not come off unless I set off the detector..wwhich is cool, the C4 is filled with metal.

Isn't that absolutely incredible? The talking heads (even on fox) we're defending this. Absolutely effing incredible. Knifes up to 5".

So you'd rather be defenseless if some Islamist group decides to take the plane over?

Don't be a sheeple. I expect talk like that elsewhere - not here.

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:31:16 AM EDT

[#5]

I'll be doing lots of flying soon:

Shanghai - Beijing - Tokyo - San Francisco - Seattle - Bellingham - Seattle - Juneau - Sitka

All in a 48 hour period.

It's gonna rock.

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:36:17 AM EDT

[#6]

Statistically flying is the safest form of transport…

…but when it goes wrong it tends to be 100% fatal.

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:39:43 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, I will start flying again..I get to take my ninja stars, razor blades, ice picks and corkscrews again juat to get me through the gates .10% faster, shoes will not come off unless I set off the detector..wwhich is cool, the C4 is filled with metal.

Isn't that absolutely incredible? The talking heads (even on fox) we're defending this. Absolutely effing incredible. Knifes up to 5".

So you'd rather be defenseless if some Islamist group decides to take the plane over?

Don't be a sheeple. I expect talk like that elsewhere - not here.

That's an odd take on it. So you'd rather a plane with everyone armed. You know most won't. Then you'll be in an unfair fight.

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:42:10 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Statistically flying is the safest form of transport…

…but when it goes wrong it tends to be 100% fatal.

Much truth here..........hitting the ground at 250 knots + is hard to survive. I don't care how well you time the impact and jump at the last second to cushion the impact............it will still kick your ass.

vmax84

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:46:08 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, I will start flying again..I get to take my ninja stars, razor blades, ice picks and corkscrews again juat to get me through the gates .10% faster, shoes will not come off unless I set off the detector..wwhich is cool, the C4 is filled with metal.

Isn't that absolutely incredible? The talking heads (even on fox) we're defending this. Absolutely effing incredible. Knifes up to 5".

How many people do they realy check? 1 in 4? So the terrorist has a 75% chance of getting on the plane anyway and I have a 25% chance of being raped by some guy with a wand cause he wants to see my feet.

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:46:35 AM EDT

[#10]

That's an odd take on it. So you'd rather a plane with everyone armed. You know most won't. Then you'll be in an unfair fight.

Unfair to who? The chumps who choose to let someone else try to save their ass, or unfair to you cuz the 8 ROP'ers will be the only ones with a weapon?
Matthew

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:49:26 AM EDT

[#11]

More info & pics:

www.airdisaster.com/photos/5b-dby/photo.shtml

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:52:27 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
That's an odd take on it. So you'd rather a plane with everyone armed. You know most won't. Then you'll be in an unfair fight.

Unfair to who? The chumps who choose to let someone else try to save their ass, or unfair to you cuz the 8 ROP'ers will be the only ones with a weapon?
Matthew

unfair to all of us...from another thread quoting the ap news story on this...here is you answer:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/08/13/national/w234140D88.DTL

The Aug. 5 memo recommends reducing patdowns by giving screeners the discretion not to search those wearing tight-fitting clothes. It also suggests exempting several categories of passengers from screening, including federal judges, members of Congress, Cabinet members, state governors, high-ranking military officers and those with high-level security clearances.

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:56:50 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, I will start flying again..I get to take my ninja stars, razor blades, ice picks and corkscrews again juat to get me through the gates .10% faster, shoes will not come off unless I set off the detector..wwhich is cool, the C4 is filled with metal.

Isn't that absolutely incredible? The talking heads (even on fox) we're defending this. Absolutely effing incredible. Knifes up to 5".

So you'd rather be defenseless if some Islamist group decides to take the plane over?

Don't be a sheeple. I expect talk like that elsewhere - not here.

That's an odd take on it. So you'd rather a plane with everyone armed. You know most won't. Then you'll be in an unfair fight.

A "fair fight" is a concept for people who aren't committing mass murder. That has nothing at all to do with this discussion. No matter how much people want to blame inanimate objects like knives, 9/11 happened for one simple reason - the crew was trained to fully comply with hijackers. Look at the news these days - if one person starts getting belligerent and gets out of their seat, a half dozen passengers will attack and restrain that person. The public is now aware that the policies that we used to have were flawed and understands that their safety is something they must take an active role in.

Taking random objects from people and telling them they have to either give them up or miss their flight has added no extra security and created widespread contempt for the security people. How do you feel about them selling all of that property on ebay or sticking it in their pockets? It's hard to focus on security when you have a bunch of people looking for excuses to steal stuff from others.

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:59:43 AM EDT

[#14]

It is pretty scary but if I had to die in plane crash, I would pick that way. Those passengers were lucky - they lost consiciousness and never saw the end... contrast that with that which the 9/11 passengers dealt with

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:01:18 AM EDT

[#15]

Well, I guess if I have to fly with a bunch of whackos, I'll get a big bad Bowie knife.

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:02:06 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
It is pretty scary but if I had to die in plane crash, I would pick that way. Those passengers were lucky - they lost consiciousness and never saw the end... contrast that with that which the 9/11 passengers dealt with

Some of the news stories quoted relatives who recd text messages from them saying goodbye.

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:06:45 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
It is pretty scary but if I had to die in plane crash, I would pick that way. Those passengers were lucky - they lost consiciousness and never saw the end... contrast that with that which the 9/11 passengers dealt with

Some of the news stories quoted relatives who recd text messages from them saying goodbye.

And I want to go out fully conscious and screaming.
The end result is the same, so why deny yourself a once-in-a-lifetime experience?

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:07:17 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

That's an odd take on it. So you'd rather a plane with everyone armed. You know most won't. Then you'll be in an unfair fight.

I'd rather be the only guy armed on a flight where something bad (terror related) than just another unarmed guy.

BTW fair fight? What century are you living in?

Like taking over an airliner and flying it into a target is a fair fight... I'll take the most lopsided (in my favor) fight anyday.

Sorry 'bout the threadjack, Vito.

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:14:40 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:

That's an odd take on it. So you'd rather a plane with everyone armed. You know most won't. Then you'll be in an unfair fight.

I'd rather be the only guy armed on a flight where something bad (terror related) than just another unarmed guy.

BTW fair fight? What century are you living in? Like taking over an airliner and flying it into a target is a fair fight... I'll take the most lopsided (in my favor) fight anyday.

Sorry 'bout the threadjack, Vito.

You misunderstood me. Someone commented thay'd rather be armed than a sheeple. I said besides the terrorists you'll most likely be the only one armed. Assuming everyone else in the plane is a sheeple. Also, asuuming there are several terrorists, you'll get your knife up ur ass. The rest of the sheeple will cower. Repeat 9-11.

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:17:28 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

You misunderstood me. Someone commented thay'd rather be armed than a sheeple. I said besides the terrorists you'll most likely be the only one armed. Assuming everyone else in the plane is a sheeple. Also, asuuming there are several terrorists, you'll get your knife up ur ass. The rest of the sheeple will cower. Repeat 9-11.

No way. There are no more sheeple when the security of the aircraft is at question. A repeat of a 9-11 style hijacking would result in a few terrorists being beaten to death by your so called "sheeple".

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:18:42 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
No way. There are no more sheeple when the security of the aircraft is at question. A repeat of a 9-11 style hijacking would result in a few terrorists being beaten to death by your so called "sheeple".

Not my so called sheeple my friend. I believe it's a term used here all day long.

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:21:52 AM EDT

[#22]

Something doesn't sound right. The pilots on my jet have qucik-don masks right next to them in case cabin pressure is lost. The reason Payne Stewart's plane crashed is because the pilot's didn't recognize a slow decompression, therefore they failed to take action to correct the problem. Again my jet has the cabin pressure displayed in two places and annunciators to also let you know if the pressure drops, I'm going to have to believe that if the Air Force has it, the airlines have had the same system for years.

Posted: 8/15/2005 7:47:34 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
No way. There are no more sheeple when the security of the aircraft is at question. A repeat of a 9-11 style hijacking would result in a few terrorists being beaten to death by your so called "sheeple".

Not my so called sheeple my friend. I believe it's a term used here all day long.

To clarify: the world is filled with sheeple in many places, but I don't believe that sheeple will exist on an airliner hijacked by box cutting wielded terrorists, much as they didn't exist on Flight 93 once word on the terrorists plans reached the heroic passengers on that doomed plane.

Posted: 8/15/2005 7:49:38 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Greek plane crash firm grounds all planes
08:06am 15th August 2005
What is RSS?

Crash: Black boxes have been located
The budget airline ...

That's all I needed to read.

RIP all those passengers.

Posted: 8/15/2005 7:50:40 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:

You misunderstood me. Someone commented thay'd rather be armed than a sheeple. I said besides the terrorists you'll most likely be the only one armed. Assuming everyone else in the plane is a sheeple. Also, asuuming there are several terrorists, you'll get your knife up ur ass. The rest of the sheeple will cower. Repeat 9-11.

No way. There are no more sheeple when the security of the aircraft is at question. A repeat of a 9-11 style hijacking would result in a few terrorists being beaten to death by your so called "sheeple".

agree.

Any hijack in the US will now be assumed to be a suicide mission rather than a "traditional" hijacking with demands of safe passage, etc.

Posted: 8/15/2005 7:59:42 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Scary as hell!

ANdy

Greek plane crash firm grounds all planes
08:06am 15th August 2005
What is RSS?

.............................. which killed of all 121 passengers and crew on board.
Many of the bodies recovered from the Greece plane crash were 'frozen solid' after a catastrophic drop in cabin pressure at 35,000ft.

The report reinforces expert opinion that the 121 passengers froze to death at minus 50c after a catastrophic drop in cabin pressure at 35,000ft...............................

Oh great. Since TSA swung into action I have been co-operating by showing up in a tank top, speedo and flip flops to speed things along. So now I have to arrive dressed like an Inuit. But they're saying I can now carry my harpoon. Cool.

Posted: 8/15/2005 8:01:07 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:

You misunderstood me. Someone commented thay'd rather be armed than a sheeple. I said besides the terrorists you'll most likely be the only one armed. Assuming everyone else in the plane is a sheeple. Also, asuuming there are several terrorists, you'll get your knife up ur ass. The rest of the sheeple will cower. Repeat 9-11.

No way. There are no more sheeple when the security of the aircraft is at question. A repeat of a 9-11 style hijacking would result in a few terrorists being beaten to death by your so called "sheeple".

I would hope you are correct but I have a feeling that there would only be a small chance of someone on any given flight actually doing something about it.

BigDozer66

Posted: 8/15/2005 8:24:21 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Something doesn't sound right. The pilots on my jet have qucik-don masks right next to them in case cabin pressure is lost. The reason Payne Stewart's plane crashed is because the pilot's didn't recognize a slow decompression, therefore they failed to take action to correct the problem. Again my jet has the cabin pressure displayed in two places and annunciators to also let you know if the pressure drops, I'm going to have to believe that if the Air Force has it, the airlines have had the same system for years.

That's what I'm thinking! Sounds like that airline has some serious operational procedure problems!

Posted: 8/15/2005 10:27:12 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Something doesn't sound right. The pilots on my jet have qucik-don masks right next to them in case cabin pressure is lost. The reason Payne Stewart's plane crashed is because the pilot's didn't recognize a slow decompression, therefore they failed to take action to correct the problem. Again my jet has the cabin pressure displayed in two places and annunciators to also let you know if the pressure drops, I'm going to have to believe that if the Air Force has it, the airlines have had the same system for years.
That's what I'm thinking! Sounds like that airline has some serious operational procedure problems!

"Budget Airline"

Posted: 8/15/2005 10:29:50 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

You misunderstood me. Someone commented thay'd rather be armed than a sheeple. I said besides the terrorists you'll most likely be the only one armed. Assuming everyone else in the plane is a sheeple. Also, asuuming there are several terrorists, you'll get your knife up ur ass. The rest of the sheeple will cower. Repeat 9-11.

No way. There are no more sheeple when the security of the aircraft is at question. A repeat of a 9-11 style hijacking would result in a few terrorists being beaten to death by your so called "sheeple".

I would hope you are correct but I have a feeling that there would only be a small chance of someone on any given flight actually doing something about it.

BigDozer66

No so... since 9/11 there have been a LOT of instances where passengers "took down" someone who was being unruly. The ones that come off the top of my head include the infamous "Shoe bomber", the lady who tried to open the emergency door, a drunkard who was going nuts, and many others like that.

The mentality of almost EVERYONE who flies after 9/11 has changed and I don't see any more hijackings of the 9/11 type occurring without passenger uprising. When you are faced with certain death in a hijacking, a knife or boxcutter becomes irrelevant.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ANOTHER REASON I DON"T FLY!!!!!

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