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Posted: 8/14/2005 10:05:37 AM EDT
[#1]
2005 Toyota Rav4
 
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Posted: 8/14/2005 10:08:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Only one real Jeep in the list. Too bad that website doesnt compare and evaluate the data, looks to me like the Libby won a lot of the categories.
I normally keep them 2 years and then dump them, I have had this one three and see no trade in anytime soon, and I went and test drvoe a 150 during the big sale. 3 years and only one problem, the horns (dual) broke and I had a horn (solo). It was really my fault anyway, I was parking by the tracks at work with the alarm set. I wore it out. No other defects or flaws yet. If Daimler got out of Chrysler, I would go back to the dealer and buy a brand new one Quoted:     |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 10:21:18 AM EDT
[#3]
ex-GF had an Escape, serviceable enough but a little cramped for 6+ footers, Jeeps are fine, most of the bugs worked out of em, Mazda or Nissan is great if you think the deficit isn't high enough or like throwing money at the French.
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Posted: 8/14/2005 10:31:21 AM EDT
[#4]
Is that a diesel? |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 10:36:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Seeing as how I'll probably keep this until it falls apart, I'd like it to last at least 10 years without needing major reconstructive surgery. Ferrin vehicles tend to have longer lifespans than 'merican ones (with exceptions of course) |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 10:38:48 AM EDT
[#6]
No Sir. Its a 2002. The CVD wasnt offered until this year. iirc its either a Benz or Benz designed engine. I have the 3.7. I have a lead foot, lift and tires, I get around 13-14 mpg. Back when I first got it (no lift and stock tires) my gf got almost 20 in town. If I really cared I would get a lot better fuel mileage, I dont. It performs well off road, very strong, quick response, turns quick and stops quick. I have loaded it down inside and out, and she never lost one drop of energy, nor did the fuel mileage change. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 10:42:56 AM EDT
[#7]
My American vehicles have always lasted until I sold them (the Cadillac I sold last year was 14 years old, my Blazer is now 7) And that is smack in rust terroroty (salt on the roads from November through March) For all the bitching and crying you do about the rest of the country not giving a shit about illegals flooding into California, you certainly have no problem putting the screws to other states when the shoe is on the other foot. Perhaps it's about time the rest of the country said to hell with that West Coast "paradise" and all of it's Hollyweird, import-loving, American hating trash, and voted to let the Aztlaners have it. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:05:12 AM EDT
[#8]
WTF!??  How is looking for a good quality SUV "putting the screws to other states"!? If you want to look at it that way, then I guess when you buy American cars, you're supporting overpaid Union workers who block free-employment and right-to-work ideas by requiring union-affiliatition and who vote overwhelmingly for gun-grabbing leftists.  |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:17:03 AM EDT
[#9]
That Liberty gets only 14 MPG ???
Hell, my F250 Super Duty 5.4 crew cab 4X4 with 33" Muds gets that!! Why get a little POS like that and not a real truck with a real frame under it? I can also tow 10,000 lb with my rig. Twice what you can. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:20:18 AM EDT
[#10]
My 7 year old Blazer looks as good as the day it was new. My Eldorado looked as good as the day it was new when I sold it. I read the manual, I didn't beat on it and it lasted. My neighbors RAV4 & Amigo were wrecks (when they weren't in the shop) Both American & Imports make good cars and lemons. To generalize that all American cars are shit is something I would expect from Jane Fonda.
When you get your new ricer then drive it through all the towns that have been decimated by the decline of American industry. There are a hell of a lot more people than just Union workers (who I have no love for) who have watched their livelihoods and neighborhoods disintegrate as import snobs and their Dalai Lama Ralph Nader and his band of cohorts at Consumer Reports trash EVERYTHING that comes out of GM, and most everything that Ford or (pre-Daimler) Chrysler put out. I buy US vehicles because it supports the Engineers and Accountants and Purchasing workers and paint companies and glass manufacturers and everything else that makes it a fundamental cornerstone of our economy. When you send your $$$ overseas, THIS is what you get:  But seeing how the West Coast is home to the "It's all about MEEEEEEEEE" mindset, who cares about the deficit and the rest of the country withering on the vine? Who cares if the greatest industrial power ever known to man is ground into dust as long as we can all drive Tacomas and Jettas and Altimas! We'll just print more money to pay for it. Such a deal!!! |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:24:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Um, OK.
Anyway I have a 2005 Xterra. I wouldn't recommend a 2004 because you get 100 more h.p. with the 2005. The new V-6 has more torque as well. The vehicle is slightly larger and has some excellent features. I would recommend you test drive one. The only draw-back I would mention is the brakes feel rather wooden. It still stops well and handles well, jut the feel isn't up to the best in the business. G |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:29:54 AM EDT
[#12]
A picture is worth a thousand words.  We are indeed financing ou own demise, one shirt, computer and car at a time.  |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:32:35 AM EDT
[#13]
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but keep in mind that the Escape and Tribute are essentially the same vehicle.
And unless I'm mistaken they are front wheel drive when in 2WD mode. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:33:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Yes, God bless Nissan and their French owners. We're only in hock with them to the tune of about $10 Billion dollars a year
The French have done so much for us when it counted. 
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:37:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Keep in mind that I do not THINK that a Toyote, Honda, etc - BUILT IN THE U.S. counts as an "import" and affects the trade balance, since it is "domestically" produced. Where they corporate profits go is different, but I do not believe that is reflecting in "Trade Balance/Defecit" numbers. ETA: I rented a Ford Escape for about a week (I think a year or two ago) and remember not liking it very much, and it was pretty cramped inside. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:43:15 AM EDT
[#16]
Merrell - go start your own thread about the trade deficit and how sub-par, overpaid Union thugs and envirowhackos have caused it.   BACK ON TOPIC - PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH SPECIFIC SUV MODELS |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:44:02 AM EDT
[#17]
DK-Prof,
That reminds me, I rented an Escape in Kansas. It really doesn't have the same content as the Xterra. G |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:44:15 AM EDT
[#18]
I like the Nissan Xterra SE
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:48:21 AM EDT
[#19]
My domestic has 90% domestic parts count, can Honda say that?  I am sick to think if the $5K in profits Chrysler sent to Germany on it as it is. FWIW, All Hondas are not made in the USA, nor are all Toyotas, nor are all..........
So you are saying the trade defecit is actually higher than it seems? We add insult to injury? That 11 billion dollars in my sigline is not staying in America, nor is it imaginary. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:48:27 AM EDT
[#20]
I remember looking at a new Xterra a few years ago, (before buying my used Volvo stationwagon), and I definitely would have picked that over the Escape at the time. Not much personal experience owning one, though - just thinking about them (sorry Mac - and for participating in the threadjack). |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:55:01 AM EDT
[#21]
Fine, I have not the energy to carry on this noble fight, enjoy your new Phrancomobile, I'm sure you will enjoy decorating it with UN stickers and blasting "Alouette" on the hi-fi... c'est finis. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:57:26 AM EDT
[#22]
4 door SUV
 
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:57:27 AM EDT
[#23]
Personally, I'd be looking at the Escape Hybrid with the price spread you're looking at anyway. The FWD model should be around $26k, which would be less than the Xterra.
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Posted: 8/14/2005 12:04:30 PM EDT
[#24]
I have a 01 Nissan Frontier, which is the same platform as the xterra. I have had 55,000 trouble free miles, gets about 18-20 mpg. Mine was built is Ten. and I think the xterra is as well, so that kills the foreign argument. Of the vehicals listed I would get the xterra no competition, espcially with the new motor.
I also have a 01 Nissan Pathfinder which is an excellent vehical more power and better mpg, might want to check those out as well. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 12:56:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Performance suffers for mileage. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 1:03:36 PM EDT
[#26]
My girlfriend drives an '03 Chevy Blazer. I like it pretty well. Handles well, seems to have pretty good power, etc. Has 4-lo and 4-hi (all their vehicles do, she lives on a big ass hill with a gravel driveway). Had some fuel pump issues but any vehicle could run into problems.
I'd recommend it. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 1:06:56 PM EDT
[#27]
I talked to a guy Friday that had a Jeep Liberty and he loves it.....Whenhe bought it was betweena Jeep Wrangler and the Liberty......The Liberty won becaue of the extra room.......We have a Wrangler and a Grand Chero................We will be a Jeep Family from now on!
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Posted: 8/14/2005 1:29:50 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm still driving my 1995 GMC Jimmy 4.3L V6 with around 130k miles. I use it for daily driving and getting to the range on roads that are 4WD only, and have had zero problems with it. It still runs great and looks great. I can totally depend on it and I'm not ashamed to be seen driving it. And best of all it's paid for. 
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Posted: 8/14/2005 1:48:17 PM EDT
[#29]
The Escape and Tribute are the same vehicles. Fight4yourrights had one, you should IM him for an opinion.
The Xterra is cool but the 05's look like ass but they have a big V-6 in them. The Liberty? They tend to be very small when it comes to hauling cargo, but the 3.7 is based off of the larger Chrysler V-8's. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 1:54:31 PM EDT
[#30]
And out of the choies/comparison link he provided, guess which one has the largest "Interior Cargo Volume w/Seats Folded"? 2.1cubic feet more than #2.  |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 1:54:49 PM EDT
[#31]
I have done a lot wrenching on these vehicles, except for the Exterra for which I've only done minor work, they don't come in the shop very often.
Out of your list I would eliminate the the Ford Escape/Mazda right away, I don't recommend them and doubt they will go 5 years without major front end/suspension problems. They are in the shop way too often for me to recommend them. The Liberty is a nice choice, good power from the 3.7L motor, nice 4wd traction in winter. We have a number of customers who are very happy with them. They have proven to be reliable for the most part with one exception, but I would attribute that to abuse more than poor design. I really like these jeeps, and it would be a tough choice between this and the Exterra. The Exterra is another fine vehicle. It would probably be my choice. The few that I've worked on and driven were nicely set up. The power was very good and they had a nice feel on the road. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 2:20:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Not really. 133hp 4 cyl + 94hp electric = V6 performance. Escape V6 fuel economy = 16mpg Escape Hybrid fuel economy = 30mpg Hybrid > V6 |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 2:31:16 PM EDT
[#33]
The Escape/Tribute have had recalls up the wazoo, so that might be a factor.
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Posted: 8/14/2005 2:31:48 PM EDT
[#34]
My parents had a 2000. Great vehicle. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 2:36:02 PM EDT
[#35]
I know it's not in your list of choices, but have you considered a Wrangler Sport? Or an Unlimited -which is really a longer sport with alot more internal space. It's got a 4.0L V6 which some like and some don't, but in my experience they last for ever. Not the most luxurious vehicle, but they generally run good, are more or less easy to fix, parts are real plentiful, they have great off road capability, and can be customized ad nauseum. The new 6 speec manual is getting great reviews, and 5 speed wasn't that bad either. And they are still pretty compact and maneuverable.
Just food for thought. -K |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 3:30:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Have your girlfriend check back in about 7-8 years and see if it's still holding up - IF it's still holding up.
Escape Hybrid AWD 2.3L 4cyl tops out at 155hp. Xterra V6 tops at 265hp 155 << 265 Escape Hybrid AWD 2.3L 4cyl torque = 124 ft-lbs. Xterra V6 torque = 284 ft-lbs. 124 << 284
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Posted: 8/14/2005 3:41:47 PM EDT
[#37]
I work on a couple of these SUV's every day, and here's what I can offer:
Thinking of getting a newish (2004-05) compact SUV vehicle. Main purpose for daily use but also need good trailroads-ability. Gotta have a V-6, 4WD/AWD. My choices so far: Ford Escape XLT - Overall a pretty good vehicle, with no major issues. Only problems we see are: Front brakes go through rotors pretty quickly. Maybe could be turned twice, then replacement is warranted. The rotor material is way softer than the pads, so they wear quickly. Most of the ones we work have ~25-30K miles on 'em, and the rotors already have a pretty good lip built up on the outer edge. They go through tires, especially rears. The IRS design must not be 100%, because we see the rear tires cupping on the inside edge. The seat cushions seem to be coming apart on all the ones we get, with the two-tone covers. The darker stitching is coming out of the cover. Jeep Liberty N/A Nissan Xterra SE - No real problems with these vehicles. Well built, and built to last. Mazda Tribute s - See Ford Escape, same vehicle |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 3:50:07 PM EDT
[#38]
You're completely leaving out the additional horsepower and torque provided by the electrical system in the hybrid Escape, man. The 155hp listed above is for the engine alone, no electical assist. So is the torque. It should total peak around 200hp, and I think torque would be around the same. Sure, it's less than the Xterra, but it's also a bit less $$, and gets about 2x the fuel economy. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 3:55:23 PM EDT
[#39]
I'd shy away from the Ford badged Mazda vehicles. Never seen one that would last and they are very expensive to fix. Worst the Ranger auto transmissions. Oh yeah, the Probe.
 One that's not on you list that's worth considering is the Honda Pilot. The wife just got one a couple months back to replace her `02 Explorer and couldn't be happier. It's got a lot more power than the 4.0 Ford. Better mileage and more nimble too. She got her new EX with cloth interior for 28k. Consumer Reports also gave it a great review. It's hard to find used ones. There's a reason.
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Posted: 8/14/2005 3:57:46 PM EDT
[#40]
I have a 2000 Xterra XE that I bought in 2000 with 10k miles on it. I live in an area with some pretty harsh winter weather, tough back roads, road salt, etc. I've been offroading with it a fair amount, on easy stuff to class VI. I worked for a NY company for a number of years and drove back and forth often. It handles well on pavement at interstate speeds and climbs rough terrain like a billy goat.
My analysis? As long as they don't pussify it and make it into just another car-chassis based SUV, I'll get another one in a heartbeat when this one is worn out, though I might have to wait a while. It doesn't seem to be wearing out very quickly. The Xterra was designed in La Jolla, CA and, as someone else pointed out, each and every one is built at the Nissan plant in Smyrna, TN. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 3:58:37 PM EDT
[#41]
 And the Hybird Escape runs about $5K more than the V6 Xterra and about $8K more than the Jeep Liberty. And then there's repair costs... how are Hybrid's repair costs compared to traditional engines? |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 4:00:54 PM EDT
[#42]
If I remember correctly, Liberty was in the news a few years back for some defects (prone to flipping or something). Might want to check into that.
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Posted: 8/14/2005 4:15:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Yeah, it's how it works. They can work independantly, or together. So you can 'golf cart' on the electric motor only at slow speeds, or when you cruise on the highway, the gas engine does the work. But from a stop, or if you're cruising, if you stomp on it, both work together. Now that 155hp and 94hp might not directly add up to 249, as the electric motor gets most of it's power at 0 rpm, and the engine gets it's peak power at higher revs. It should perform about equal to a 200hp V6. It's not pin-you-to-your-seat power, but it will move the vehicle just fine. As for price, I thought I had read that a 2wd Escape Hybrid was about $26k, and the V6 Xterra was $28k. Was I mistaken? |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 4:18:05 PM EDT
[#44]
My sister's Liberty gets the same gas mileage as my 5500 lb. Avalanche.
That's just pathetic. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 4:26:42 PM EDT
[#45]
AWD Escape Hybrid MSRP is around $28K 4WD Xterra MSRP is around $23K Also, compare the "True Cost To Own" estimates from edwards.com - Escape Hybrid = $0.56/mile for five years at 15,000 mi/year Nissan Xterra = $0.52/mile for five years at 15,000 mi/year |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 4:30:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Do yourself a favor Mac and look at 4Runner.
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Posted: 8/14/2005 4:31:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Ahh... I'm at work, and I've bounced around reading a little... but I keep getting distracted by work! Personally, I dig technology, and I have no use for 4WD. I'd probably trade off the vehicle before the warranty was expired anyway, so I wouldn't have to worry about any extra costs as far as maintenance. It would just be fuel and lubrication, just like any other vehicle.
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Posted: 8/14/2005 4:33:52 PM EDT
[#48]
That's mainly my wife's vehicle. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:13:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Explorer maybe? |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 11:27:54 PM EDT
[#50]
I have 34000 miles on my '04 Escape. No problems or issues to speak of. The tire wear is good and I don't rotate as a general rule. The brake dust can be excessive, but the rotors and pads look good.
I couldn't be happier driving any other vehicle right now unless I had my F350 PS 4X4 back. 
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