How do you run into your own antennae?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How do you run into your own antennae?

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:17:52 PM EDT

Really. How did the Ruskie sub hit their own antennae? They must have known where it was.

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:19:15 PM EDT

[#1]

Hell, they can't keep track of their own nukes. What makes you think a measly antenna matters?

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:28:33 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Really. How did the Ruskie sub hit their own antennae? They must have known where it was.

What antennae? Didn't the reports say the sub got snagged on fishing nets?

The only type of antennae I can think of that could foul a sub is a sonar towed array (it's a long cable with special underwater microphones in it. It's pulled behind the sub to increase the sensitivity of the passive sonar. Surface ships can have them as well) or ELF (extremely low frequency radio) antennae, but the reports I've heard is that the sub is a small deep sea model with a crew of 7. Towed arrays are normal for combat subs but not small rescue/research subs.

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:32:50 PM EDT

[#3]

Lets make fun of them when they are breathing fresh air.

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:34:04 PM EDT

[#4]

I was wondering the same thing. They don't have a great submarine track record do they.

Sgat1r5

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:34:06 PM EDT

[#5]

Not a submariner, so all I know is what I've read.

Based on what I've read, its possible to turn tight enough to tangle or otherwise hit your own towed array.

Likewise, forgetting to reel it in and then having to back up might also cause them to tangle with their own towed array.

But I thought the research sub had tangled on a net, not its own towed array?

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:35:29 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Really. How did the Ruskie sub hit their own antennae? They must have known where it was.

Do a tight turn?

Reverse engines?

I would imagine it could be done.

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:35:47 PM EDT

[#7]

Cant they do an emergeny ascent? You know, the whole "Blow ballast" type thing?
How does getting your prop tangled prevent you from going up and down??

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:36:29 PM EDT

[#8]

I guess all that we needed during the Cold War were fishing boats when it came to submarine warfare.

Hopefully the Chinese subs are based on Russian design.

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:37:05 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Really. How did the Ruskie sub hit their own antennae? They must have known where it was.

What antennae? Didn't the reports say the sub got snagged on fishing nets?The only type of antennae I can think of that could foul a sub is a sonar towed array (it's a long cable with special underwater microphones in it. It's pulled behind the sub to increase the sensitivity of the passive sonar. Surface ships can have them as well) or ELF (extremely low frequency radio) antennae, but the reports I've heard is that the sub is a small deep sea model with a crew of 7. Towed arrays are normal for combat subs but not small rescue/research subs.

That's what the reports said but they are stuck on their own sub detection antennae.

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:50:13 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Really. How did the Ruskie sub hit their own antennae? They must have known where it was.

Do a tight turn?

Reverse engines?

I would imagine it could be done.

They did a Crazy Ivan. . . .

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:57:43 PM EDT

[#11]

How could that prevent them from surfacing unless they screwed up the dive planes? All subs sink and float using ballast of water, if their screws are tangled than then wouldnt be able to go anywhere but up and down.

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:58:35 PM EDT

[#12]

i think it some type of permant antenna that is used to track enemy vessels around russia.it is anchor to the bottom of the ocean with 60 ton concrete anchors.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:01:46 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I guess all that we needed during the Cold War were fishing boats when it came to submarine warfare.

Hopefully the Chinese subs are based on Russian design.

I think they bought a few from the French.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:13:08 PM EDT

[#14]

Are they getting those dudes out, or what? I haven't watched TV lately.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:13:11 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
i think it some type of permant antenna that is used to track enemy vessels around russia.it is anchor to the bottom of the ocean with 60 ton concrete anchors.

That's what yahoo news is saying..

ETA:subs up and all seven are alive

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:13:13 PM EDT

[#16]

It's on the surface now. Brit sub with US personel got it loose.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:15:48 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
It's on the surface now. Brit sub with US personel got it loose.

Thank God!

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:20:13 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
It's on the surface now. Brit ~~sub~~ owned, US designed and constructed ROV with US personel got it loose.

It is a United States Navy designed remotely operated vehicle. Even if it uses an Allstrom Schilling manipulator, it is still a USN designed ROV.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:20:21 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
It's on the surface now. Brit sub with US personel got it loose.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:24:50 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted: i think it some type of permant antenna that is used to track enemy vessels around russia.it is anchor to the bottom of the ocean with 60 ton concrete anchors.

Must be a pretty big antenna. I guess it must be net-like to catch that sub, right? I've glanced at the animations on TV, but I haven't seen a pic of the real thing.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:35:26 PM EDT

[#21]

Water doesn't carry RF well. Low freq is the key and this requires a long antenna.

Unlikely as this was a rescue sub. I bet they got tangled in sub nets or entangled in a subsea acoustical tracking array that they were working on...after Pollard et al let our subsea surveilence operational secrets out, Russia has been trying to prevent such a drop.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:37:38 PM EDT

[#22]

They did a Crazy Ivan. . . .

He must've done it at the top of the hour, that's why he got tangled.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:39:22 PM EDT

[#23]

Sounds like they got really luck after one hummer of a dumb manuver.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:40:11 PM EDT

[#24]

The Ruskies owe the USA and the UK a big debt of gratitude.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:47:27 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
It's on the surface now. Brit ~~sub~~ owned, US designed and constructed ROV with US personel got it loose.

That is my understanding too.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:49:44 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
The Ruskies owe the USA and the UK a big debt of gratitude.

Naw, just read this BBC report... apparently the US was not involved.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4128614.stm

Russian submarine and crew saved
The unmanned Scorpio craft helped free the vessel

A Russian mini-submarine stranded for three days beneath the Pacific Ocean has been brought to the surface after an international rescue effort.

The seven-man crew, who had faced low temperatures and dwindling oxygen, are all alive and were able to climb out of their submarine unaided.

The vessel, trapped 190m (620 ft) down, surfaced at 1626 (0326 GMT).

A British underwater robot helped rescue the craft, slicing through nets and debris entangling the submarine.

Russian military medics were on standby to treat the men, who had faced temperatures as low as 6C (43F) and a faltering oxygen supply.

Pinned to seabed

Senior navy official Vladimir Pepelayayev said all the men were in a satisfactory condition, according to the news agency Interfax.

The British Scorpio craft had been working for several hours to cut the vessel free of the debris pinning it to the seabed off the Kamchatka peninsula.

Initial reports said the vessel was trapped in vast fishing nets but later it emerged that the sub may have also been snagged by an underwater antenna, said to be part of a coastal monitoring system.

The sub's very heavy anchors also hampered rescue efforts.

The Russian Priz submersible - itself a rescue vehicle - was on a training exercise when it became trapped underwater on Thursday.

Earlier Russian efforts to rescue the sub's crew, which included looping a cable onto the vessel to drag it to higher waters, had failed.

The BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Moscow says the rescue is something few in Russia had dared hope for.

For many this episode revived memories of the sinking of the Kursk submarine almost exactly five years ago, when all 118 men on board died.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How do you run into your own antennae?

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