Toyota Announces Largest Safety Recall

May 17, 2005 4:35 p.m. EST

C. Ficara, All Headline News Reporter

WASHINGTON, D.C. (AHN) - Toyota Motor Corp., in one of its largest safety recalls ever, announced Tuesday it is recalling more than 750,000 pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles because of problems with the front suspension that could hinder steering.According to company, the recall covers 774,856 vehicles in the United States, including the 2001-2004 model years of the Tacoma, the 2001-2002 versions of the 4Runner and the 2002-2004 model years of the Tundra and Sequoia.Toyota said the surface of a ball joint which connects to the front suspension may have been scratched when it was manufactured, which could lead to wear and tear over time.Any excessive wear or looseness in the joint could force drivers to exert more effort when steering, allow the vehicle to drift and increase the amount of noise from the suspension.A Toyota spokesman reported the company's confirmation of six cases in which the condition existed in the suspension - no injuries were associated with the problems.Toyota plans to conduct a similar recall of the affected vehicles in Canada, Japan, Australia and other countries.Owners will be notified of the recall beginning in July and will be able to have the problem fixed at no cost.

This is the largest recall in Toyota's history.

Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this?

tag

Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this?

Yes

Btw, my 95 Taco was recalled for a steering issue too.   Wonder if was the same thing....

Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this?

Toyo fucks up so you shit on American manufacturers?

Quoted: Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? Toyo fucks up so you shit on American manufacturers?

No shit, talk about how liberals spin shit, these fucking import sucking trade defecit propagating asshats know no shame.

(Sorry NoVa, nothing personal )

Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this?

My Durango had a ball joint recall just last month....Problem was I kept telling them something was wrong about 9 months ago. Had them do it then and I paid for it. Then I get a letter about the recall and make a bitch about it.
They tell me even if I had it done and paid that it needs to be redone. REASON you ask. Because they might have used defective parts. I then get a call and told that I will get $100.00 for the ball joint's I did. Turns out they had the recall a year ago but I never got a letter.
Now I am really pissed and tell them take your $100.00 and shove it up your ass. I am taking you to small clames court. It cost me nearly $600.00 and you want to give me $100.00 back.

Waiting for the court date to come up.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? Toyo fucks up so you shit on American manufacturers? No shit, talk about how liberals spin shit, these fucking import sucking trade defecit propagating asshats know no shame. (Sorry NoVa, nothing personal )

No doubt, minus the cussing.....

Quoted: Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? Toyo fucks up so you shit on American manufacturers?

Yes. 'Cause it's so damn easy.

All you have to do is stop waving the flag and look a the number of recalls the various manufactures have, and (as importantly) what they're actually for.

Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this?

Not likely.

Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this?

Chrysler did it with their Dakotas a while back.

Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? My Durango had a ball joint recall just last month....Problem was I kept telling them something was wrong about 9 months ago. Had them do it then and I paid for it. Then I get a letter about the recall and make a bitch about it. They tell me even if I had it done and paid that it needs to be redone. REASON you ask. Because they might have used defective parts. I then get a call and told that I will get $100.00 for the ball joint's I did. Turns out they had the recall a year ago but I never got a letter. Now I am really pissed and tell them take your $100.00 and shove it up your ass. I am taking you to small clames court. It cost me nearly $600.00 and you want to give me $100.00 back. Waiting for the court date to come up.

I think this pretty much clarifies the issue.

I had a similar problem with a Chevy wagon about sixteen years ago when the trans detonated.  GM's actions and lousy customer service lost them a customer for life.

On it's worst day Toyota is better built than ANY domestic truck. Do a search if you don't believe it.

Quoted: On it's worst day Toyota is better built than ANY domestic truck.

Ahem.

I think not.

Fords are better built.

Toyotas may have fewer minor quality control issues, but a Ford is a stronger truck.

Quoted: Quoted: On it's worst day Toyota is better built than ANY domestic truck. Ahem. I think not. Fords are better built. Toyotas may have fewer minor quality control issues, but a Ford is a stronger truck.

....and Dodge is better because they look like a "big rig".

This would be the first and only recall for my Tacoma.  My '99 Silverado had 6 different recalls in during the 3 year period that I had it.

ooopsie dupesie

Quoted: Quoted: On it's worst day Toyota is better built than ANY domestic truck. Do a search if you don't believe it. Good for you,  When you buy one, bring it over and I will take it for a ride in the back of my Dodge.

Quoted: ....and Dodge is better because they look like a "big rig".

No.

Fords are better because they are built stronger. They have larger frame rails. Stronger critical suspension components. They have a heavier tow weight....because they are built stronger.

Dodges have good frame structure and suspension design too.

I am speaking of the strength of the product they build. Not the way they look. And I dare say I have more Ford truck experience than most.

You guys can keep driving those tinfoil toy trucks, I'll keep my F350.  I've hauled loads that would crush a Taco or Tundra.   For a REAL truck you have to buy AMERICAN.... or a Unimog.  

Quoted: You guys can keep driving those tinfoil toy trucks, I'll keep my F350.  I've hauled loads that would crush a Taco or Tundra.   For a REAL truck you have to buy AMERICAN.... or a Unimog.

The Unimog doesn't count, either. It's a tractor with a cargo bed.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? Toyo fucks up so you shit on American manufacturers? No shit, talk about how liberals spin shit, these fucking import sucking trade defecit propagating asshats know no shame. (Sorry NoVa, nothing personal )

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? Toyo fucks up so you shit on American manufacturers? Yes. 'Cause it's so damn easy. All you have to do is stop waving the flag and look a the number of recalls the various manufactures have, and (as importantly) what they're actually for.

I took you up on your offer. I downloaded ALL the vehicle recalls from the NHTSA database. I added up all the recalls for 2000 to 2005, and looked at them by manufacturer. The results:

Domestic manufacturers had 2.4 times as many recalls during this period. However, by sales volume, the domestic auto manufaturers outsold the Japanese by  about 2.5 to one. So, the actuall recall RATE is slightly lower for the domestics, although the difference is not statistically significant (Using a Chi Squared test: P-value = 0.262 with 1 DF).

Conclusion: By recall rates there is no siginifcant difference in vehicle quality between domestic and Japanese manufacturers. Sorry, but facts can be stubborn things.  

Quoted: I took you up on your offer. I downloaded ALL the vehicle recalls from the NHTSA database. I added up all the recalls for 2000 to 2005, and looked at them by manufacturer. The results: Domestic manufacturers had 2.4 times as many recalls during this period.

Is that number of vehicles recalled, or just total recalls issued?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? Toyo fucks up so you shit on American manufacturers? Yes. 'Cause it's so damn easy. All you have to do is stop waving the flag and look a the number of recalls the various manufactures have, and (as importantly) what they're actually for. I took you up on your offer. I downloaded ALL the vehicle recalls from the NHTSA database. I added up all the recalls for 2000 to 2005, and looked at them by manufacturer. The results: Domestic manufacturers had 2.4 times as many recalls during this period. However, by sales volume, the domestic auto manufaturers outsold the Japanese by  about 2.5 to one. So, the actuall recall RATE is slightly lower for the domestics, although the difference is not statistically significant (Using a Chi Squared test: P-value = 0.262 with 1 DF). Conclusion: By recall rates there is no siginifcant difference in vehicle quality between domestic and Japanese manufacturers. Sorry, but facts can be stubborn things.

nice post

Quoted: Quoted: ....and Dodge is better because they look like a "big rig". No. Fords are better because they are built stronger. They have larger frame rails. Stronger critical suspension components. They have a heavier tow weight....because they are built stronger. Dodges have good frame structure and suspension design too. I am speaking of the strength of the product they build. Not the way they look. And I dare say I have more Ford truck experience than most.

I don't pull my 19 ft. Glastron to work every day.

Quoted: I took you up on your offer. I downloaded ALL the vehicle recalls from the NHTSA database. I added up all the recalls for 2000 to 2005, and looked at them by manufacturer. The results: Domestic manufacturers had 2.4 times as many recalls during this period. However, by sales volume, the domestic auto manufaturers outsold the Japanese by  about 2.5 to one. So, the actuall recall RATE is slightly lower for the domestics, although the difference is not statistically significant (Using a Chi Squared test: P-value = 0.262 with 1 DF). Conclusion: By recall rates there is no siginifcant difference in vehicle quality between domestic and Japanese manufacturers. Sorry, but facts can be stubborn things.

2000-2005, but nice work nonetheless.

Quoted: I don't pull my 19 ft. Glastron to work every day.

Good thing, because if you did try to do it with a Toyota truck, odds are that it would die.

Now I do know of Ford F-150s that have towed cattle trailers at least twice a week for at least 30 miles per trip.

150K of that and still running strong.

Quoted: Quoted: I took you up on your offer. I downloaded ALL the vehicle recalls from the NHTSA database. I added up all the recalls for 2000 to 2005, and looked at them by manufacturer. The results: Domestic manufacturers had 2.4 times as many recalls during this period. However, by sales volume, the domestic auto manufaturers outsold the Japanese by  about 2.5 to one. So, the actuall recall RATE is slightly lower for the domestics, although the difference is not statistically significant (Using a Chi Squared test: P-value = 0.262 with 1 DF). Conclusion: By recall rates there is no siginifcant difference in vehicle quality between domestic and Japanese manufacturers. Sorry, but facts can be stubborn things.   2000-2005, but nice work nonetheless.

I have all the data going back to 1947. It was too much work to go back that far, especially since I also would have had to get vehiclesales figures from about 50 years instead of 5. But you are more than welcome to go back further. All the data is available on the NTHSA website. Warning: There are over 53,000 separate recalls in the database.

  Hey, quit pissing in my thread

 This isn't an us vs them thread, since the ball joint problem has already crossed that point.

 Put the freaking grease fittings back in them for christs sake.

Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this?

Would happen after about 200 lawsuits and 30 fatalities before they did.

Quoted: I took you up on your offer. I downloaded ALL the vehicle recalls from the NHTSA database. I added up all the recalls for 2000 to 2005, and looked at them by manufacturer. The results: Domestic manufacturers had 2.4 times as many recalls during this period. However, by sales volume, the domestic auto manufaturers outsold the Japanese by  about 2.5 to one. So, the actuall recall RATE is slightly lower for the domestics, although the difference is not statistically significant (Using a Chi Squared test: P-value = 0.262 with 1 DF). Conclusion: By recall rates there is no siginifcant difference in vehicle quality between domestic and Japanese manufacturers. Sorry, but facts can be stubborn things.

Ouch. So what you are saying is what I said in the other thread. if it moves it breaks. Period.

Everything else is fluff. Well that is almost everything else. The trade deficit is real.

Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this?

Uh, yes.  My '89 GMC was recalled for........ball joints.  

That's a big recall, however I'm not surprised to see a ball joint recall. I've sent a number of customers back to the dealer for replacement under warranty, although many chose to have us do it and pay for it out of pocket.

I don't know what's going on with the quality of ball joints these days, not just from Toyotas, but from various manufacturers.

At our independent repair shop I have been getting a large number of front end noise complaints that end up being diagnosed as bad ball joints.

Seems to be more than average lately, with one manufacturer in particular having a disproportionate amount of bad ball joints.
I'm not going to name the Mfg because I don't want to start a brand 'x' bashing, and I plan on notifying the company about this issue as it's been so common at our shop that I have been waiting for them to initiate a safety recall on at least five different models for premature ball joint failure.

I can't imagine thier technicians and supervisors not being aware of this, but I feel they are keeping it hush especially after recovering from a fairly recent issue that had serious consequences.
No such recall has been implemented to my knowledge.

It's a standing joke at our shop, every time we get one of those vehicles in we automatically check the ball joints and find many of them to be worn to the point where they won't pass a safety inspection.

That's only half of the issue. After replacement, the new ball joints didn't fair any better than the originals, and we only use OEM or better parts. They have a similar failure rate, and had to be replaced more than once with excessive wear at considerably low milage.

This leads me to believe that there are two possible reasons for this problem to exist.
First possible cause is that the ball joint was under-engineered by the suspension designers, and should have been made a little stronger for these applications.
Second could be a defect in manufacturing of the ball joints by the company who actually builds them, be it in house or more likely supplied by one of the major suspension component manufacturers.

Either way, this problem is not limited to this particular company. I'm seeing it on many others as well, just not as frequent.



Didn't mean to hijack, my apologies to Waldo.

Quoted: Quoted: I took you up on your offer. I downloaded ALL the vehicle recalls from the NHTSA database. I added up all the recalls for 2000 to 2005, and looked at them by manufacturer. The results: Domestic manufacturers had 2.4 times as many recalls during this period. However, by sales volume, the domestic auto manufaturers outsold the Japanese by  about 2.5 to one. So, the actuall recall RATE is slightly lower for the domestics, although the difference is not statistically significant (Using a Chi Squared test: P-value = 0.262 with 1 DF). Conclusion: By recall rates there is no siginifcant difference in vehicle quality between domestic and Japanese manufacturers. Sorry, but facts can be stubborn things.   2000-2005, but nice work nonetheless.

So how far back should we have to go to get the results that you want?

Quoted: Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? Chrysler did it with their Dakotas a while back.

Chrysler had to do it because the wheels would fall-off.  The daughter of an employee here had her front left wheel fall off hers while she was driving.  This isn't nearly as serious of a problem, but Toyota is still doing the right thing.

As an example, GM has refused for years to fix a serious problem with the Corvette.  Since 1997, the lock in the steering column can lock-up while driving.  GM has not issued a recall to fix it yet.  Imagine driving a new Corvette then suddenly not being able to steer.  GM claims it would be too expensive to replace the lock since federal law requires a lock as an anti-theft device, so they haven't.  More than a dozen times I've had to go pick-up either my great-nephews or my boss's son because they ended-up stranded somewhere due to the safety problem GM has refused to fix.  From what I've seen from Toyota, they would have fixed it the first year rather than continuing to refuse to fix it for more than eight years.z

Quoted: Quoted: 2000-2005, but nice work nonetheless. So how far back should we have to go to get the results that you want?

Back through to when Americans only bought American autos and the Japanese only made transistor radios and knicknacks should do.

Then the numbers will skew and tell the true lies of the left, like every other left wing hate America kommie loving conspiracy.

Quoted: I'm not going to name the Mfg..

So you're not concerned about warning any fellow ARFcomers who may be driving these vehicles?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? Chrysler did it with their Dakotas a while back. Chrysler had to do it because the wheels would fall-off.  The daughter of an employee here had her front left wheel fall off hers while she was driving.  This isn't nearly as serious of a problem, but Toyota is still doing the right thing.

How are bad ball joints on a Toyota any better than bad ball joints on a Dodge?

As an example, GM has refused for years to fix a serious problem with the Corvette.  Since 1997, the lock in the steering column can lock-up while driving.  GM has not issued a recall to fix it yet.  Imagine driving a new Corvette then suddenly not being able to steer.  GM claims it would be too expensive to replace the lock since federal law requires a lock as an anti-theft device, so they haven't.  More than a dozen times I've had to go pick-up either my great-nephews or my boss's son because they ended-up stranded somewhere due to the safety problem GM has refused to fix.  From what I've seen from Toyota, they would have fixed it the first year rather than continuing to refuse to fix it for more than eight years.z

So how big of a problem with Corvettes has this actually been?

And why did Toyota wait for 5 years and until they built 775,000 vehicles with bad ball joints before recalling them?

So how big of a problem with Corvettes has this actually been?

The general quote on corvetteforum.com is that every Corvette owner eventually starts having their steering column lock-up.  From what I've seen and from talking to about two dozen different C5 owners, every single one of them has had trouble with it.  There's several companies that sell bypasses for the locks that keeps them from engaging so it makes the problem much less likely to happen.  Removing the lock is very difficult so there isn't a good solution other than to get AAA and hope you don't get killed while driving it.

How are bad ball joints on a Toyota any better than bad ball joints on a Dodge?

The local Dodge dealer said the problem was caused by too weak of a part.  The ball joints were bad when new.  The Toyota problem only shows-up after time and wear.

And why did Toyota wait for 5 years and until they built 775,000 vehicles with bad ball joints before recalling them?

There have been only six cases of it happening according to a Toyota to NHTSA, and those only showed-up over time.  They didn't wait 5 years after learning about the problem.  That's the difference between Toyota and the US makers.  The US makers wait until people die or until NHTSA orders them to issue a recall.z

Quoted: Quoted: I'm not going to name the Mfg.. So you're not concerned about warning any fellow ARFcomers who may be driving these vehicles?

You are right Boomer, I didn't think about it that way, but I am a little concerned about it and I apologize for not being forthcoming in my original post, I was just trying to add my personal experience with ball joints that I consider to be problematic without starting a hijack.

However, before I go any further I want it to be clear that I can't speak for the entire run of these vehicles, only the ones that I service at our shop, which equates to somewhere between 75 -100 vehicles(A relatively small number compared to what's produced). About half of them are fleet owned, but nonetheless this shouldn't be anywhere near as common as it has been. I don't want my information to be taken out of context, I'm just a mechanic, I didn't start a data collection page on this issue or anything else, I'm way too busy to do that, I am just speaking from my personal experience and from that of the other mechanics at the shop. We all agree that this is a big problem.

I will do my best to keep you guys informed, the following list is certainly not as complete as I would like to present to you guys, but it's what I can recall offhand as far as the model and years of affected vehicles are concerned.

Ford E-250, E-350 vans '97-'03: Definitely the most common at our shop.
Ford F-250, F350, F450 trucks 2x4 and 4x4, we get mixed years, I would range them from '98-'04
Lincoln Navigator 4X4, '98-up, Also noticed tie rod ends wearing prematurely on these.
Ford Excursion 2x4 and 4X4, '01-'03

Bottom line, if you have one of these vehicles and you hear a knock or thump when going over bumps you should have the front end checked out by a mechanic. In many cases where I found this problem, the customer didn't even notice anything was wrong and didn't hear any unusual noise. Symptoms may vary but are usually an audible knock from the front wheel area, most noticeable when pulling over a slightly raised edge on a driveway or bumps at slower speeds(25-30mph).

Bear in mind that it takes less than 1mm(actually .08mm or 1/32") of lateral play for most of these ball joints to fail a safety inspection and require replacement. That's not a lot of movement, but it is easily detected during ball joint inspection. Most of the vehicles that I have checked were way beyond that limit by the time they came in to the shop.

Quoted: Ford E-250, E-350 vans '97-'03: Definitely the most common at our shop.

That would explain why the E-350 we have as a crew hauler where I work has had the ball joints replaced several times. To be fair, though, a large percentage of it's use is driving up and down rough gravel roads around the rail yard.

Quoted: Quoted: Ford E-250, E-350 vans '97-'03: Definitely the most common at our shop. That would explain why the E-350 we have as a crew hauler where I work has had the ball joints replaced several times. To be fair, though, a large percentage of it's use is driving up and down rough gravel roads around the rail yard.

No doubt, unfortunately it's not going to get any better unless someone comes up with a beefier ball joint for these applications. Again, I can't imagine that the dealer technicians are not aware of this as I'm sure they are seeing a good number of work orders for the same thing.

Quoted: Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? Toyo fucks up so you shit on American manufacturers?

Toyota is an American manufacturer. Those tacoma's were built in California. Unlike many Mexican built fords and Chevys.

Quoted: Quoted: On it's worst day Toyota is better built than ANY domestic truck. Ahem. I think not. Fords are better built. Toyotas may have fewer minor quality control issues, but a Ford is a stronger truck.

Ford what? Ranger? Because you realize your comparing a compact to a fullsize.

I had a '99 Ranger. Well built??? Don't make me laugh...Stronger truck???MWAHAHAHA

Toyo is coming out with a 3/4 ton in '06 or '07...supposedly equipped with a diesel powerplant.

Then, there will actually be some real comparisons, instead of, "my F350 StupidDuty can haul 10k pounds of cattle...can your Tacoma do that??? That's what I thought, traitor!!! Like a Rock!!!"

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Could you imagine a US automaker willingly recalling a vehicle for something like this? Toyo fucks up so you shit on American manufacturers? No shit, talk about how liberals spin shit, these fucking import sucking trade defecit propagating asshats know no shame. (Sorry NoVa, nothing personal )

I think he was just pointing out the truth.

BTW, I used to work as a tech at a Chrysler-Jeep dealer...the amount of recalls on those vehicles was staggering, and that's no exaggeration.

How's that Daimler Liberty treatin ya, CavVet?

Quoted: Toyo is coming out with a 3/4 ton in '06 or '07...supposedly equipped with a diesel powerplant. Then, there will actually be some real comparisons, instead of, "my F350 StupidDuty can haul 10k pounds of cattle...can your Tacoma do that??? That's what I thought, traitor!!! Like a Rock!!!"

That's what I was thinking.  Apples and oranges otherwise.