I'd really like to join either the Navy or AF within the next 3 months (to get out of home, meet new people, save up cash, travel) but I have read quite a few bad things on the Anthrax vaccine and don't want to get it.  (I talked to an Army Ranger who lost his testicles).

What do you guys know about this?  Is it possible to join without getting the Anthrax Vaccine?

They're going to stick you full of needles throughout your career, should you join.

The vaccines are all harmless, and if they're not, who cares.

Suck it up, be a warrior.

Just think how scary bullets and schrapnel are.

Check this out first for yourself..and remember anyone can claim to be anything on these boards and anyone...its your butt on the line not theirs..and no few here are pogues masquerading as "warriors"...check out gulf war vets
[url]http://www.gulfwarvets.com/anthrax.htm[/url]

schrapnel must be the german version of shrapnel? :)

I have gotten the whole series one and a half times (If you miss your boosters you start all over from scratch).  I have gotten about ever pre-overseas shot there is and I still am around with no long term adverse effects.  Like most shots you have some minor side effects for a few days afterwards.  But they go away.  The biggest problem is that they are giving a "agricultural strain" of anthrax vaccine.  The bio warfare strains are different and the shots given may not give protection.
I am no expert but many of the problems that are attributed to the vaccines also happen out in society at close to the same rates, but don't seem to raise as much attention.

I've had it.
I personally know hundreds of Marines who've had the Anthrax Vaccine, as well as many other "experimental vaccines" i.e.: Japanese Encephelitis, etc..
Never a problem.
Ever.
From ANY of them.

Yes Doc, that's the German spelling.
I'll spell it how I please! [:I]

And Doc, mind your tongue if your questioning my integrity.  It's uncalled for.

Thanks for the link doc.

It looks like the vaccine isn't for airborne vaccine spores.

An absolutely worthless vaccine if you ask me.  I can't believe this is mandatory.

No shit?
Learn something everyday.

Shrapnel was designed by Lt. (later Gen.) Henry Shrapnel of the Royal artillery around 1784. It was first accepted into service in 1803 (he was promoted from Lt. to LtCol for its development) and used in 1804 at Surinam, Batavia. It is hollow round that contained shot (originally lead) and explosives to open the shell. Ejecting the shot as the fuze functioned. It has a similar effect to "grape" or "canister" shot except the fuze controlled when the shot was disturbed and was not limited to muzzle action. The term wrongly has been adapted to mean the fragments produced by any explosions. We try to break the junior artillery officers calling frag, shrapnel because it is the wrong term since we no longer use "Shrapnel."   It went out of use in WW 1 .  Since it was found very few causalities were caused by it and the frag produced by HE was much more effective.  In the 60s the Beehive (APERS) round was introduced that was similar to shrapnel, but that also was shown to be less effective than items like "killer junior."

STLRN, you continue to amaze me.

You people have your FOIL hats on too tight.
I have had all 6 shots with no side affects.
the stories you hear about are nothing but proaganda and scare tactics.

The vaccine is a cell-free filtrate, produced from a strain of anthrax that does not cause disease. The vaccine contains no whole bacteria, dead or alive.
The vaccine was developed in the United States during the 1950s and 1960s for humans and was licensed by the FDA in 1970.
Since 1970, it has been safely and routinely administered to at-risk wool mill workers, veterinarians, laboratory workers, livestock handlers and Service Members in the United States.


In general, safety of the vaccine is not a major concern, especially considering its very limited distribution and the benefit-to-risk aspects of occupational exposure in those individuals for whom it is indicated. Local reactions are typically mild, with erythema and slight local tenderness for 24 to 48 hours. Some individuals may have more severe local reactions, with edema, erythema greater than 5 x 5 cm, induration, local warmth, tenderness, and pruritus. Only a few systemic reactions with marked chills and fever have been recorded. All reactions reported have been self-limited.

The vaccine helps your immune system to prevent the anthrax bacteria from growing and producing toxins that lead to disease and death.
Possible side effects (% of people vaccinated):
Mild local reactions, about 30% of men and 60% of women (less than 1" of redness, swelling, tenderness at the site of injection -- not unlike other vaccine shots)
Moderate local reaction (1" to 5"), 1% to 5% (redness, minor swelling, tenderness at the site of injection)
Large local reactions, about 1% (redness greater than 5", swelling at the site of injection and forearm)
Beyond the injection site, from 5% up to 35% of people will notice muscle aches, joint aches, headaches, rash, chills, fever, nausea, loss of appetite, malaise, or related symptoms. Again, these symptoms usually go away after a few days. Over-the-counter medications before or after the anthrax vaccine may help reduce bothersome symptoms.
Serious events, such as those requiring hospitalization, are rare. They happen about once per 200,000 doses. Severe allergic reactions can occur after any vaccination, less than once per 100,000 doses.
There have been no patterns of long-term side effects from the vaccine, neither persistent side effects, nor delayed side effects.

It won't hurt you to take the vaccine, it will hurt if your exposed without having taken it.

You shouldn't join the military if your worried about vaccines. I was in the Army and can't remember how many times we received a vaccine or whatever. When you enlist your body belongs to Uncle Sam, your a GI (goverment Issue), do as your told and don't complain too much or you will become popular quick!

Forget about being an individual and learn to be part of the team and you will go far.

...Yeah like all those Desert Storm veterans that were lied to repeatedly until they died of "unexplainable" causes.

...Or we could talk about how harmless Agent Orange was to Vietnam vets and their children.

I'm been serving for 13 years now and have still managed to dodge the Anthrax vaccine. Right now the AF isn't giving the shots out. They've been suspended for all but personal serving in the Persian gulf for more than 30 continuous days.

Its thought that the sickness is do to being EXPOSED to a chem or bio agent in the gulf(weapons?).
This is EXACTLY why you need these vaccines.

Gentlemen,

Let's just not let our paranoid fantasies about
Antrax vaccines and DNA samples prevent any of
the youngsters out there from joining the
service(s).
ALL vaccines contain some of the agent/virus.
There's no need to scare recruits.
It's simple science.

Let them make their own decisions.
If one of these guys refuses, after they've
sworn the oath, it will put a major crimp on
their futures

I had the Japanese Encephelitis shot in 89 when it was classifed as expermental.
We all got sick. It was like the worst case of the flu and hangover I have ever had.
Don't try and tell me that something that makes you that sick isn't harmful.
Oh....don't tell me the SecDef got a real shot on film. "More distilled water, Sir?"

I had a serious reaction to my 1st Antrax shot, than another serious reaction to my 2nd. In my medical records I can not recieve any more anthrax shots.

I have a friend who after his 5th shot started having heart problems. When he returned from Saudi he ended up going to a heart specialst. This Doc asked him if he had recieved the entire anthrax series. Turns out this Doc has seen a abnormally large segement of 20-25 year old people who have heart problms, and they all have had the anthrax shots. My friend at 23 had to have a pacemaker due to the anthrax vaccine.

Long term side effects, how does anybody know???????

This shot has only been given to the military since Clinton forced it upon us. Seems his old pal CJCS Crow (not sure of name) owns some/all of the only company that produces the vaccine.

Do some research into the subject instead of spouting the party line.

...and running in boots gives you shin-splints and stress fractures  -WAHHH!

Welcome to the military.

If you don't like it, once you're in, I suppose you could start wetting your bed or pretend you're gay.

If you go to Japan, and get Encephelitis, you'll wish you had the shots.

If you go someplace nasty, where the enemy is throwing Anthrax around, you'll wish you had the shots.

You know, the RKBA crowd is full of wannabes and "tinfoil-hatters" who will pump you full of massive amounts of disinformation.

Some are covering for their own failure, as in "I didn't serve because I didn't want to be under U.N. command" or "I was discharged because  I wouldn't take the anthrax vaccine."

Translation:  "I'd rather sit at home and watch the Discovery Channel" or "I was kicked out for smoking dope and now blame it on anthrax."

Get a grip, fer cryin' out loud.  I'll wager you that all of the real veterans on this board have had hundreds of shots in their career with no ill effects.  Who are you going to believe?  Professional Soldiers or Joe Shit the Donut Addicted Local Militia Commander?

The bottom line is if you aren't willing to take the shots don't join.  You will get more shots that just anthrax.  All those shots are the reason that recruit depots and training bases are no longer areas of mass contagion as they where prior to all the inoculations.

Do they make some people sick.  Yes, they do, but that is life it aint fair.  Some people live healthy lives yet still die at 50 of a heart attack while others smoke, eat everything fried in lard and die at 90 of automobile accidents.  Your genes are one the biggest factors in what will become of you, learn to live with it.

Why not just say he has seen an abnormal amount of car accidents and they all had the anthrax vaccine. Must be the vaccine.


its been given to 10`s of thousands of people.
some of them are bound to have something in common.

I have researched it.
It has been given to many thousands of people for 30 years. I would call that LONG TERM!!


Serious events, such as those requiring hospitalization,[b] are rare[/b]. They happen about[b] once per 200,000 doses.[/b] Severe allergic reactions can occur after any vaccination, less than once per 100,000 doses.
There have been no patterns of long-term side effects from the vaccine, neither persistent side effects, nor delayed side effects.

Hummmm when we went to Camp Butler/Foster to run the O course we (USAF/SF) were the only ones running in BDU's and boots. Everybody else had on USMC PT gear, wonder why?????????

Since you know everything I'm sure you know the anthrax vaccine only protects you agains ONE (1) strain of anthrax. Not to mention that Iran has 12 seperate strains that the shot does NOT protect you from.

I've had the Encephelitis shot and lots more. Without a doubt getting shots can and does help. Just not in the case of anthrax.

Right..........and agent orange was safe in long term studies also.

Did you know that the anthrax vaccine was orignally develouped for veterinarian's and that it was NOT FDA approved. I'm from a rural area with a major vet school. When I was talking to the teachers/staff not ONE had taken the shot due to feeling it was not safe.

Shrike
Well that is because it is a requirement to run the O course in boots and utes.  Normal PT is not done in boots because of they do damage the lower legs, around 96-97 the 3rd MarDivs CG would not allow anyone to do any long distance running in boots because of that. He is gone and boots and utes are runs are still authorized in the 3 active duty Marine Divisions.  I would hazard to say that you go to any Marine base on any day of the week and you will see someone running his company or battery in boots and utes, you cannot say the same for the other services.

Anthrax may have a higher risk than other vaccines.  But its still is not as instantly debilitating to everyone as some have insinuated or almost the entire military would be done and out by now.

Sure is strange when the base hospital sends all kinds of young fit troopers to a heart speciallist. Not to mention that the only thing they have in common is heart problems.

But hey who am I since you know everything and have all the answers.

Now go drink a glass of agent orange.....We were told it was safe.......Who told the truth??

I was on Okinawa from 89-92 and the vast majority of time we never saw anybody running in boots. Hell you should have heard the shit we got for running the O course in BDU's and boots.

Hell you will be hard pressed to find ANYBODY on a AF instlation running in BDU's and boots.

No the anthrax shots are not instantly debilitating but who really knows what the long term effects are. Are we all blind sheep that blindly trust in our leadership never questioning????????

Do you know anybody from DS/DS with Gulf war syndrom???? I've got 14 friends that have develouped symtoms over the years. Only 3 have the full blown illness, only time will tell about everybody else.

Nothing's wrong with getting the shot, it's wrong when you are not told about the possible side effects and long term results.

Yes, I do.  And I none I know, to include myself, have Gulf War Syndrome.  From what I remember many of the symptoms are the same as most people get when the get older.

When I went to OCS about ever run we did other than the PFT was done in Boots and Utes.  I have seen people get in trouble for not having a Corpsmen present, not having checked out the course, not getting an orientation to course if they where from a different service, but I have never seen anyone get in trouble for doing the O course in Boots and Utes, since it is required by Marine Corps order.

I would have loved to have had you in my company, and refuse your shots.
Sending whiners to jail is just "thinning the herd" as far as I'm concerned.
You join up, you do what you have to do.
Period.
You want to whine, complain, worry about shots, etc., then, when the time comes I'm guessing you won't take that hill, either.

No need for you.

Glad to see you do not know how to read......Look at my earlier post. I DID take the shot and NEVER looked back. It was the REACTION that damn near put me in the hospital (was put on tylenol 4 and qtrs) then I went to take the 2nd shot only this time I had a soft ball sized lump, bright read streaks running threw it and could not move it for 3 days. Had a couple 4 IV's and some other meds. Now it's in my records that I can't take the series.

Go ahead a guess all you want, all that does is make you look like a fool.

PS....at least I can think on my own instead of wating for somebody to do my thinking for me.

Actually, (and you should know this) your job as a service member was three-fold;  think for yourself, think for those in your charge, and allow those in charge of YOU to occaisionally think for YOU.
That's how it works.
The military is not easy.  It shouldn't be.
There are risks (even in the air force, I suppose).

Stop complaining.
Stop whining.
It's embarrassing.
We should be encouraging this young man to enlist, not demonstrating weakness.

LOL[:E]

That Anthrax vaccination is nothing man.  I started my cycle back in '98.  Our entire base had to get it and I only heard of one guy that had adverse affects to it.  Still then all they did was stop giving it to him and take him off mobility.

You might not even get the shot.  The only people that were getting it when I got out in April were people that were getting deployed to AEF.  

Like Major Murphy said
"Suck it up and be a warrior."

I'm an F/E for a local ANG C-130 unit here in GA, & the current rule is that you only have to undergo the series if you're going to be "in theatre" for 30 days or more.  So even if I go back to Saudi/Yemen/UAE/wherever, & I'm only going fo 3 weeks, I don't have to take the shot.  
We've had a couple guys have strange 'headaches' & other unexplainable 'bodyaches' that took the shot, so draw your own conclusions from that.
A large percentage of our part time pilots fly full time for a major airline, & about a year ago when the shots were in the limelight, a few of the major airlines went as far as to threaten these guys w/ suspending their insurance if they went through w/ the series.  Eventually, Congress stepped in & basically said "Oh hell no you won't!" & that seemed to be the end of that.  Recently our wing commander brought in some local cellular expert who explained the whole vaccination/immunization theory to us, & also stated several times during his "unbiased" tirade that the shots were perfectly safe.
At the end of his speech, one of our Navigators simply asked him if he would voluntarily take the shot if he didn't have to, to which this "expert" promptly replied "hell, no."  Again, draw your own conclusions.  
As mentioned before, they're going to stick you w/ more needles your first week than you thought possible, but by all means don't allow an unwillingness to get vaccinated/immunized be the sole basis to which you decide whether or not to serve your country.  It's worth it.

Major Murphy says and i quote:
"You join up, you do what you have to do.
Period."

And these are the folks in the military some are counting on not to obey orders to disarm American citizens?

Regardless of these government paid stooges, there are literally TONS of data out there that show that vaccines are in fact unhealthy in the extreme. Vaccines are constantly used as carriers to disseminate new bio-warfare agents to the masses be they military or "civilian". WHat better way to have the largest possible pool to test on than to give free "flu shots", REQUIRED vaccines, and the like--all laced with the new toxin/biological warfare agent you're testing.

The proverbial bear shitting in the woods needs not your validation to know that it just in fact DID shit, and neither does the truth about vaccines and their detriment to normal human biological function. Funny how the rise in new and biologically debilitating diseases have risen in direct proportion to vaccine prevalence/requirements.

Make your decision after having personally researched the facts.

Gus really summed it up.
There are moments where morality or conscience may cause you to say "no" to an order or command (like disarm the populace).  That's fine.
If you choose, however, to make the vaccines, or the UN one of those moments, or a reason NOT to enlist...

See Gus's above post.

DJ
Have you ever heard of small pox, the black death, typhoid, yellow fever, the list goes on and one.  Just as there have been paranoids since humans have existed there have been many deadly diseases prior to the advent of inoculations.

Dude, are you an immunologist or are you just repeating the latest urban myth?

I get the impression that you and a lot of other people who have never served see the military as a malevolent conspiricy acting outside of the law.  

The truth is that the worst you can accuse the military of, as an institution, is indifference.  What I mean is that the military will never screw you over on purpose.  You may get screwed over, but this is only because some records clerk somewhere in the pentagon has a big weekend planned and never gets around to solving your administrative problem.

It's hard for people to accept because they'd rather believe that the military is obssessed with their personal problems.  This is just not the case.

The anthrax vaccine has been debated for some time, but it is not resolved properly. It is important that any GI use his head and his heart to make good decisions about what is right and wrong for himself, his men and those that he serves. I did my time as a Marine and got my share of shots...actually I felt like a pincushion in boot camp! I don't trust our government to always do the right thing. This anthrax controversy is ongoing and needs a better resolution before more troops take a shot that has only limited benefits. As I understand it has never been actually tested on humans for weapons grade anthrax. The approval test was something like 12 reeses monkeys were vacinated and exposed and 10 survived...that is not a very good basis for sticking this vaccine in every GIs arm. My $.02

Another "Urban Myth" in the making?