User Panel
Posted: 10/30/2004 3:19:15 PM EDT
November 01, 2004
Army relieves leader of unit that refused to run convoy Relatives claim ‘mutiny’ troops were unprotected, had unsafe equipment By Jane McHugh Times staff writer The company commander of the Army Reserve unit that refused to run a convoy in Iraq was relieved of duty and is being reassigned as the Army wrestles with an incident that has grabbed worldwide attention. On the home front, meanwhile, the soldiers’ family members have continued to speak out against what they view as unfair treatment for taking a stand against being saddled with dangerously unsafe equipment and inadequately protected against attack. The decision to relieve the commander of the 343rd Quartermaster Company, who was not identified, came at her request and was effective immediately, said Lt. Col. Steve Boylan, an Army spokesman in Baghdad. He said that the commander, whom the Army would not identify, was not suspected of wrongdoing and the reassignment had nothing to do with anyone’s guilt or innocence. Soldiers under investigation Meanwhile, an unspecified number of the 18 soldiers of the 343rd Quartermaster Company, based in Rock Hill, S.C., are under investigation for refusing on Oct. 13 to drive a fuel convoy from Tallil air base near Nasiriyah to Taji, north of Baghdad. The Army suspects that five of the 18 may have been the leaders behind the incident. Five soldiers, who were not identified, were reassigned within the command. Separately, Boylan said, a few are under criminal investigation to see if they violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The convoy was carried out later that day by other soldiers from the unit, the Army said. The soldiers have told their families that they balked at the mission because the vehicles were unarmored and in poor condition. They said complaints to their commander about concerns went unheeded. Brig. Gen. Jim Chambers, commander of the 13th Corps Support Command, said at an Oct. 17 press conference in Baghdad that an investigation is underway, but he maintained that it is “too early” to determine whether any of the soldiers will undergo disciplinary action. All 18 soldiers have returned to duty, Boylan said. Chambers ordered the 343rd to hold a two-week safety maintenance stand-down, during which it will conduct no further missions as the unit’s vehicles are inspected. He noted that there are some 250 convoys on the road manned by 5,000 to 7,000 soldiers every day and said that danger come with the territory in those missions. “These are very courageous soldiers, warriors, who along with our contractor partners climb into the cabs of their trucks every single day knowing it’s not a question of if but when they will be attacked,” he said. Meanwhile, relatives of the 343rd soldiers fielded calls from reporters around the world. The family members relayed what their loved ones told them about unit leadership and unit missions. The fuel tankers the 343rd was to drive on the convoy couldn’t go any faster than 40 mph and the soldiers were worried they were not getting proper armed escort, said Teresa Hill of Dothan, Ala., mother of Spc. Amber McClenny, 21. The relatives’ accounts of the incident prompted at least one 343rd soldier to speak out to correct misinformation. Spc. Major Coates told The Charlotte Observer that despite statements by his father, the soldiers were wearing body armor. Coates, a water treatment specialist, also said he was properly trained to deploy to Iraq, but acknowledged that when he arrived, officials “did not tell us we were infantry now,” as his father had said. “We are not cowards,” Coates said. “The way that things come out, it makes us look like that ... Our soldiers have run missions all over Iraq; we’re never scared to go on a mission.” And Coates said his father was wrong when he said soldiers banded together in refusing the order. “We did not form a group on the decision we made,” Coates said. “Everyone made their own individual decision to do what we thought best.” Coates declined to comment about whether he was mistreated by military authorities, as some relatives have alleged. “I’m serving my time to my country because I love America,” he said. “If the leaders do their part, I do my part.” Lawyers interviewed by Navy Times said the most likely criminal charge the Army would file, if any, is failure to obey an order, which carries a maximum penalty of two years confinement, a dishonorable discharge and forfeiture of pay and allowances. http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=0-NAVYPAPER-466597.php |
|
Why did I suspect this? |
|
|
explains it all. |
||
|
This news is about 1 or 2 months old. We will never know the real reason for the transfer, but it sure looks kind of funny.
|
|
I believe that they shoot people for mutiny in time of war. I hope these guys have their ducks in a tight row. From the sounds of the noise coming from both sides there is a good case for these guys walking. Someone will have to "pay" - either the senior NCO's for leading a mutiny, or the senior NCO's for letting things get that bad with their equipment or the officer's for planning a mission without armed escorts.
|
|
+1 |
||
|
WHAT THE FUCK!!!!! Hey! pay attention Coates… 'Officers' are supposed to give the orders! not let everybody wonder off and decide what they each 'individually' want to do! I'll rephrase my original post… WOMAN ARE INCAPABLE OF EXERCISING PROPER COMMAND AND HAVE NO PLACE IN ANY MILITARY UNIT THAT REQUIRES THEM TO EXERCISE 'COMMAND'… Jesus H fucking Christ! Command by individual choice… Andy |
|
|
How can this news be 1 or 2 months old when THE REFUSAL HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 16th 2004??
What fucking planet are you on, the one were a day is measured in 12 arns?
|
|
|
I agree, but there are also a lot of Chicken-Shit males in our world. I wouldn't dare judge the soldiers that made that decision because I wasn't there. However, one must be cognizant that when you sign up for the military you are signing your death warrant, if you can't handle that you shouldn't join. |
||
|
Well you should. Soldiers don't get to "vote" on whether they want to obey orders or not. War is dangerous. It is more dangerous when troops "vote" on obeying orders. |
|
|
Oh that's screwed up. At least they didn't form a commitee to decide whether or not to disobey orders. It was a group of individual decisions. I think this is cause for a group of individual courtmartials. |
||
|
I guess when the groundpounders decide" on their own " that they can't go to battle cause they might get shot at, the enemy will wait for others to do the job.
Cowardes in wartime should be shot. Those on the front may not be able to wait for the late crew to deliver fuel. |
|
Correct me if I'm wrong here, this is a failure of their BASIC TRAINING ! I have heard basic has been pussified & the changes made have led us here. Fucking ass wipes ! There was no toleration for shit like this at Harmony Church when I went through. The Army better wake up !
|
|
Excellent. It was a 'Failure of Command' at both the Officer and Senior NCO levels. Heads should roll.
EDIT - the gender issue is a non-starter. Known plenty of hard-assed military women. The folks whinging about women in the military can just stifle. This was indeed a failure in training, and a failure in leadership. The individual enlisteds involved in this (in)action need some serious re-training and a reduction in rank to Private. The NCOs involved also need a reduction in rank. And the OIC needs to resign. Absolutely unfucking sat in a combat zone, or ANYWHERE within the US Mil. |
|
So, you are willing to dictate your actions in the same situation? No one can make the call without being there. We all want to think that we would do the right thing, but no one can be 100% certain. It's like saying, "I wouldn't be one of they guys that bought the bullet on Omaha"... it's preposterous I'm calling some serious However, they should be responsible for leaving their fellow soldiers SOL when they were derelict in their duties. |
||
|
EternallyIndebted, please clarify your point - you seem to be saying we cannot criticize the actions of the mutineers, because we were not there / in their boots. ?
|
|
If the officer in charge suggested to the troops under his/her/it's command that they shouldn't follow the orders the officer received, that officer goes in front of the JAG corps, period.
If the individual troops did their own thing without the officer's knowledge...that officer should go in front of the JAG corps for not providing safe equipment...not to mention all the troops who disobeyed an order. Responsibility ALWAYS lies on the person in charge, period. However, if it's a full unit action and NOT the cause of the officer, the unit needs to get spanked as well. Frankly if the equipment was in that bad a shape...not only would the officer get ganked, but so would the maintaince personel. My dad's in the reserves; he's seen quite a bit of shady stuff when it comes to maintaince. It usually all came to a head during AT when shit broke. Money's tight these days...*shrug* |
|
You do what your told when your told, there are alot of other soldiers that are depending on the actions of others, just 'cause you don't know what your c.o. knows, you refuse ??????????????
Unacceptable, judge them ? Fuckin' A ! Refusing a direct order in a combat zone ? Lucky to be alive ! |
|
The whole truth will never get out. This one will be shuffled away.
|
|
When you join up you surrender your right to 'opt out' of the shitty stuff. Don't know about the US Mils 'Sign Up' papers, but at the bottom of mine for the British Mil, it has typed in big bold capitals letters on the line above where you signed… "I understand by signing this document that I may be called upon to lay down my life for my country. etc, etc,………" Andy |
|||
|
I am not saying that I am positive that these guys whould swing from a tree, but I have read that other troops from the same unit used the same "inoperable, unsafe" equipment to complete the mission, if that is the truth then they are and should be fuxored so hard theier grandkids will be born with loose assholes.
They may have had valid points, the commander may have been a world class shit bird, and from the sound of things she was, but that does not give a soldier the right to start choosing which orders he is going to follow and wich are too dangerous. The commander should probably be on charges for allowing such an event to take place without placing everyone of the mutineers under arrest, and confined to the nearest Stockade, until the unit redeploys and they can be court martialed. Those that refused a lawful order in the face of the enemy, because of certain danger, should be hanged from the neck until dead, if they are convicted at a fair court martial. There have been too many men and women killed in this war because they followed orders that but them in danger for these weasels to get away with it. |
|
No, they should be judged in accordance with the military code. However, I'm not going to Keyboard Kommando my way into saying that "I would have executed the mission come Hell or high water... now let's go take off our flak jackets and kill some Raggies with our knives.. YEEHAA". I'm not going to say, with perfect certainty, what I would've done. About the "moneys tight" comment. I wouldn't say money is tight, but malapportioned. |
|
|
[ I'm not going to say, with perfect certainty, what I would've done.
I can & would have. 11BC2 4/17 Light Inf. |
|
As far as I know the military code only allows for refusing unlawful orders, not ones you think are too scary. What kind of idiot thinks you have a choice to opt out-"What? Advance on the enemy position, yer nutz!"
|
|
I didn't realize they were based at Tallil. That's south of Nasiriya and supposed to be the garden spot of Iraq. I hear they even have an officer's club on the base that serves beer. If they can't keep their trucks repaired there, they have some problems.
GunLvr |
|
Everyone should keep this in mind when they go to the polls on Tuesday. |
|
|
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.