Man shoots Akita in So Cal

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Man shoots Akita in So Cal (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:01:59 PM EDT

I havent found a news story yet, but this happened not to far from where i live.

A man was walking his 10 month old Akita on a leash when two stray dogs approached. the man corrected his dog by pulling on the leash. The Akita turned and bit him on the forearm, severly. His wife pulled the dog off at which point the dog bit his other arm, severly. the mans son heard the struggle and responded with his .45 he shot the dog in the head, wounding but not killing it and the police were called.

Animal control took the still alive akita to a vet where it was put down. The Akita owner went to the local trauma center for surgery to repair nerve and tendon damge to both arms. He will likely suffer permanant disability in both limbs.

The incident struck me as intertesting in several points. The owner obviously bought a breed of dog he could not control, and had not established himself as the "alpha" male in the "pack". a .45ACP to the head disabled, but did not kill, the medium size pup. The dog owners son responded correctly, and did not get into trouble with the law as so many like to speculate. even though the shooting took place on a city street in So Cal. Of course the cops in this city pretty regularly shoot mountain lions, and it used to be a horse community, so the sheeple may be used to gunfire at this point.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:04:53 PM EDT

[#1]

he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:08:58 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

It was attacking his father.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:12:39 PM EDT

[#3]

I have owned a number of Akita's...even at 10 months they are big and they are stubborn as all hell. Mine will keep pushing me to a point he knows I won't snap and "correct" him back to #2....he has pushed me to do that a few times and he fully understands if it were him and I in a fight he will lose. Akita's can get to be well over 100 pounds (mine is 120)....I love Akitas but if it started to attack his own owner he needed to die.

Most people confuse the Akita with a Chow....here is an Akita.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:12:46 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

It was attacking his father.

it's a puppy for christ sake. i have been bitten by my dog, but i don't get the urge to whip out the USP and start putting lead in its brain. that's retarded.

i hope he gets charged with a felony.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:14:16 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

I have actually owned an Akita. Have you? This "puppy" gave this guy permanent disability in both arms.

Btw our dog was very good with our family when I was a kid. My sister could stick pencils up the dog's nose, dress it up in rediculous outfits, etc. But if any other animal entered our yard it was as good as dead.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:15:27 PM EDT

[#6]

Although in the situation he was in he should have taken his boot to the strays and let his Akita's leash go limp so the Akita wasn't hindered in an upcoming dog fight....still shouldn't of attacked his owner though.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:17:33 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

I have actually owned an Akita. Have you? This "puppy" gave this guy permanent disability in both arms.

Btw our dog was very good with our family when I was a kid. My sister could stick pencils up the dog's nose, dress it up in rediculous outfits, etc. But if any other animal entered our yard it was as good as dead.

you get between two dogs fighting and you are bound to get bit. there are other ways to break up a dog fight than stupidly putting your hands in the middle. don't feel bad for the guy at all.

even if the dog was biting, a good swift kick would have knocked it off. pulling a .45 is ridiculous.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:17:56 PM EDT

[#8]

Can you read? The dog did severe damage to the man. It wasnt a nip. He has NERVE and muscle damage. So if a dog is biting a loved one enough you to send them to the hospital, youre going to just stand there with your head and thumbs up your ass? From your response it seems so.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:18:24 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

It was attacking his father.

it's a puppy for christ sake. i have been bitten by my dog, but i don't get the urge to whip out the USP and start putting lead in its brain. that's retarded.

i hope he gets charged with a felony.

Maybe you like being subservient to your dog. Most people consider themselves the Alpha male. I would not tollerate my dog biting me twice.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:18:45 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

It was attacking his father.

it's a puppy for christ sake. i have been bitten by my dog, but i don't get the urge to whip out the USP and start putting lead in its brain.

This man will likely never be able to manipulate a firearm again. Dont confused being nipped Vs a bite A good solid bite crushes muscles and tears tendons and nerves. You never fully recover from a solid bite.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:19:44 PM EDT

[#11]

So what kind of a brain-blister does it take to make a person say "Well, Akitas/Chows/Canaria Presos/Whatever have a record of ungovernability and inexpicable violence, but I will buy one anyway?" I have never understood that crap.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:19:54 PM EDT

[#12]

Here is something a LOT of people are missing.

"A man was walking his 10 month old Akita on a leash when two stray dogs approached."

I think this is why the owner got bit. The Akita probably felt himself engaged and that is a dangerous time to try and break it up or control it. I think the owner tried to do the right thing but still a dicey thing to do.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:19:55 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
The dog owners son responded correctly, and did not get into trouble with the law as so many like to speculate.

So what, did they offer the boy a job?

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:20:31 PM EDT

[#14]

Considering the amount of damage (and bloodletting) that my 8lb bengal cat did to me, a 100lb akita probably turned that guy's arms into ground beef.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:20:51 PM EDT

[#15]

A 10 month old Akita is very strong and could kill some adults...I think the word "puppy" for an Akita ends at about 5 months.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:22:36 PM EDT

[#16]

the man was stupid for letting himself get bit. you do not stick your hand in between two dogs fighting. common sense, people.

this is like those stupid assholes who go fuck with the wildlife here, get hurt, and then the animal gets put down. umm...sorry, don't fuck with wild animals and don't get hurt.

the son sounds like one stupid fucker, who probably got his rocks off by blowing a puppy's brains out.

'shit! paw must'er done pissed dat damn dawg off uh-gin, where's mah gun?! hee-hee yaw-hoo!'

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:24:31 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
So what kind of a brain-blister does it take to make a person say "Well, Akitas/Chows/Canaria Presos/Whatever have a record of ungovernability and inexpicable violence, but I will buy one anyway?" I have never understood that crap.

I wouldn't lump Akita's in with Pits and Rotts....many own Akitas because they are great outdoor dogs...they can hike anywhere, handle the freezing cold months on end and are just great dogs to do stuff with in general for someone who is active. I'd be willing to say the Akita might be the best dog for all around toughness and outdoor survival.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:24:36 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

It was attacking his father.

it's a puppy for christ sake. i have been bitten by my dog, but i don't get the urge to whip out the USP and start putting lead in its brain. that's retarded.

i hope he gets charged with a felony.

Have you ever seen a ten month-old akita? They are very big and have very powerful jaws. That's probably why they were Japanese imperial guard dogs. This dog was attacking his father, who was already severely injured. And you want him charged with a felony?

Here's your sign.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:27:43 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

It was attacking his father.

it's a puppy for christ sake. i have been bitten by my dog, but i don't get the urge to whip out the USP and start putting lead in its brain. that's retarded.

i hope he gets charged with a felony.

Have you ever seen a ten month-old akita? They are very big and have very powerful jaws. That's probably why they were Japanese imperial guard dogs. This dog was attacking his father, who was already severely injured. And you want him charged with a felony?

Here's your sign.

users.binary.net/thomcat/Picts/sign.gif

don't buy a dog you cant handle.
don't bring a dog out who is not trained.
don't walk an untrained dog near other dogs.
don't stick your hands in between brawling dogs.

who's the stupid one? not me.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:28:21 PM EDT

[#20]

I have a 100+ pound Rott and have no problem man handling him any time he gets out of line. I have got between him and other dogs, got bit quite hard by one of the others, took 1 second to get the dog off my arm by grabbing his lower jaw. I still managed to throw my Rott over the fence and out of the fight. I then kicked the shit out of the other dogs; and yes I had my Glock 27 on me. Granted I was lucky they were dogs from around my block and I knew they had thier shots or it could have been worse for me in that respect.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:30:48 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

I have actually owned an Akita. Have you? This "puppy" gave this guy permanent disability in both arms.

Btw our dog was very good with our family when I was a kid. My sister could stick pencils up the dog's nose, dress it up in rediculous outfits, etc. But if any other animal entered our yard it was as good as dead.

you get between two dogs fighting and you are bound to get bit. there are other ways to break up a dog fight than stupidly putting your hands in the middle. don't feel bad for the guy at all.

even if the dog was biting, a good swift kick would have knocked it off. pulling a .45 is ridiculous.

Think you might want to read the post again more carefully.....

1. NOT a puppy.. 10 months old..... damn near to full grown... big dog
2. Dogs NOT fighting... owner 'corrected' him by pulling back on leash
3. Owner did not "pull a .45" his SON did, AFTER seeing the dog mauling his father AND mother trying to pull the dog off

A 'good swift kick' wasn't going to fix shit, methinks....... Akitas are strong stubborn dogs

If this animal decided it was ok to attack his owner AND the wife couldn't pull it off, doing serious damage to the man, merely for having it's leash yanked back, the dog needs to be put down.......

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:31:44 PM EDT

[#22]

My GF was walking her Lab and a shepard ran after her and tried to bite her dog. She took her reel for her leash and bashed the sucker. Drove his head into the ground! The dog ran and the kids that owned the dog ran too.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:33:23 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
don't buy a dog you cant handle.
don't bring a dog out who is not trained.
don't walk an untrained dog near other dogs.
don't stick your hands in between brawling dogs.

who's the stupid one? not me.

None of those people you mentioned describe the son. Regardless of how the father got into that situation, the son was acting to save his father from a dog who had already severely injured him. How else did you expect him to do this? You yourself said not to stick your hands between brawling dogs. Are you now saying it's okay to stick your hands in when a dog is attacking a person? As I said, here's your sign.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:35:52 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Considering the amount of damage (and bloodletting) that my 8lb bengal cat did to me, a 100lb akita probably turned that guy's arms into ground beef.

Cats are a whole other story. Raised right, the dog will KNOW you're the boss. Cats always think they're the boss. I think I'd rather deal with a pissed off 8lb cat than a 100+ lb dog anyday though.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:36:32 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
don't buy a dog you cant handle.
don't bring a dog out who is not trained.
don't walk an untrained dog near other dogs.
don't stick your hands in between brawling dogs.

who's the stupid one? not me.

None of those people you mentioned describe the son. Regardless of how the father got into that situation, the son was acting to save his father froma dog who had already severely injured him. How else did you expect him to do this? You yourself said not to stick your hands between brawling dogs. Are you now saying it's okay to stick you hands in when a dog is attacking a person? As I said, here's your sign.

users.binary.net/thomcat/Picts/sign.gif

the father is the stupid asshole who got himself in that situation. if his father wasnt such a moron, he would have never been put in that situation to begin with.

there are a million ways to stop dogs fighting without sticking your hand between the two or pulling a gun.

lethal force is not always the answer for everything.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:39:15 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Considering the amount of damage (and bloodletting) that my 8lb bengal cat did to me, a 100lb akita probably turned that guy's arms into ground beef.

Cats are a whole other story. Raised right, the dog will KNOW you're the boss. Cats always think they're the boss. I think I'd rather deal with a pissed off 8lb cat than a 100+ lb dog anyday though.

Yeah, I was talking from a pure damage standpoint. My cat normally responds to me when we 'fight', normally he'll back off if I yell "No!" but in this case he lost it. I agree, I'll take on the cat rather than the dog. If I wasn't so interested in keeping my cat alive and unharmed, I would not have been injured nearly so much.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:40:25 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
don't buy a dog you cant handle.
don't bring a dog out who is not trained.
don't walk an untrained dog near other dogs.
don't stick your hands in between brawling dogs.

who's the stupid one? not me.

None of those people you mentioned describe the son. Regardless of how the father got into that situation, the son was acting to save his father froma dog who had already severely injured him. How else did you expect him to do this? You yourself said not to stick your hands between brawling dogs. Are you now saying it's okay to stick you hands in when a dog is attacking a person? As I said, here's your sign.

users.binary.net/thomcat/Picts/sign.gif

the father is the stupid asshole who got himself in that situation. if his father wasnt such a moron, he would have never been put in that situation to begin with.

there are a million ways to stop dogs fighting without sticking your hand between the two or pulling a gun.

lethal force is not always the answer for everything.

NOWHERE does it say the dogs were fighting....... READ the damn post, before you jump to conclusions.......

Is that too much to ask ?

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:40:33 PM EDT

[#28]

don't do stupid shit, and you won't get hurt.

this story pisses me off, because i always hear stories about some redneck yahoo's going and fucking with the wildlife...like trying to pet bear cubs, get 10 feet from a bear to get a photo, etc. the assclowns then get hurt, and then the game wardens have to come in and put the wild animal down. that's bullshit.

if little johnny or suzie are stupid enough to go fuck with wild animals, they should be prepared to face whatever consequences may happen. everyone feels bad for the genetically-impaired children, but not for the poor animal that was just minding it's own business.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:41:09 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
don't buy a dog you cant handle.
don't bring a dog out who is not trained.
don't walk an untrained dog near other dogs.
don't stick your hands in between brawling dogs.

who's the stupid one? not me.

None of those people you mentioned describe the son. Regardless of how the father got into that situation, the son was acting to save his father from a dog who had already severely injured him. How else did you expect him to do this? You yourself said not to stick your hands between brawling dogs. Are you now saying it's okay to stick your hands in when a dog is attacking a person? As I said, here's your sign.

users.binary.net/thomcat/Picts/sign.gif

+1

And Poink, don't worry. If I see your dog doing the same thing to you, I'll save you.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:42:20 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
don't buy a dog you cant handle.
don't bring a dog out who is not trained.
don't walk an untrained dog near other dogs.
don't stick your hands in between brawling dogs.

who's the stupid one? not me.

None of those people you mentioned describe the son. Regardless of how the father got into that situation, the son was acting to save his father from a dog who had already severely injured him. How else did you expect him to do this? You yourself said not to stick your hands between brawling dogs. Are you now saying it's okay to stick your hands in when a dog is attacking a person? As I said, here's your sign.

users.binary.net/thomcat/Picts/sign.gif

+1

And Poink, don't worry. If I see your dog doing the same thing to you, I'll save you.

That makes one of us.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:43:37 PM EDT

[#31]

Wow some people are just stupid.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:53:26 PM EDT

[#32]

I would put even money of a fight between an Akita and a black bear. They are fierce animals.

Posted: 9/26/2004 8:56:55 PM EDT

[#33]

The son did what he felt was right by protecting the physical well being of his father. Maybe some would have approached the situation differently. There is no need to waste tax dollars charging him with anything!

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:01:37 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45? Yes he did.
it's a puppy for christ sake. i have been bitten by my dog, but i don't get the urge to whip out the USP and start putting lead in its brain. that's retarded. You are an idiot if you think an animal that attacks and seriously injures it owners does not need to be killed

i hope he gets charged with a felony.

I want to say "I hope you get bit by your dog." but that would not be nice.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:03:01 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Can you read? The dog did severe damage to the man. It wasnt a nip. He has NERVE and muscle damage. So if a dog is biting a loved one enough you to send them to the hospital, youre going to just stand there with your head and thumbs up your ass? From your response it seems so.

He is from that fucked up Liberal state of Colorado, what do you expect?

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:07:11 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
He is from that fucked up Liberal state of Colorado, what do you expect?

Damn looks like you do not have a lot of room to talk judging by your west coast address!

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:09:51 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
He is from that fucked up Liberal state of Colorado, what do you expect?

Damn looks like you do not have a lot of room to talk judging by your west coast address!

Colorado makes California look very normal and Conservative.
They have a bunch of absolute nut jobs there.
OK I'll admit many of them moved there from California.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:09:57 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Can you read? The dog did severe damage to the man. It wasnt a nip. He has NERVE and muscle damage. So if a dog is biting a loved one enough you to send them to the hospital, youre going to just stand there with your head and thumbs up your ass? From your response it seems so.

He is from that fucked up Liberal state of Colorado, what do you expect?

the liberal state of colorado? that's a first.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:12:21 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
OK I'll admit many of them moved there from California.

LOL, hey now I escaped from California in 96

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:14:51 PM EDT

[#40]

Lay off colorado ass hole

Most of the liberal crack pots in my town came from......
CALYFORNYIA!

And Texas...

But thats a whole nother story.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:17:03 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
He is from that fucked up Liberal state of Colorado, what do you expect?

Damn looks like you do not have a lot of room to talk judging by your west coast address!

Colorado makes California look very normal and Conservative.
They have a bunch of absolute nut jobs there.
OK I'll admit many of them moved there from California.

are you on crack? give me some examples.

your state is like nero playing the fiddle as rome burned. the pressing issues that get passed there are: the banning of foie gras (duck liver patte), banning picking weeds by hand, banning toy guns, banning firearms that were never used in a crime before, attempting to give illegals driver's licenses, etc, etc, etc, etc.

you have no idea what you are talking about.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:24:29 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
He is from that fucked up Liberal state of Colorado, what do you expect?

Damn looks like you do not have a lot of room to talk judging by your west coast address!

Colorado makes California look very normal and Conservative.
They have a bunch of absolute nut jobs there.
OK I'll admit many of them moved there from California.

are you on crack? give me some examples. You Mr. or MRS. Poink are the only example I need to give. If you are an example of what Colorado is producing the gene pool needs some chlorine quickly.

your state is like nero playing the fiddle as rome burned. the pressing issues that get passed there are: the banning of foie gras (duck liver patte), banning picking weeds by hand, banning toy guns, banning firearms that were never used in a crime before, attempting to give illegals driver's licenses, etc, etc, etc, etc.

you have no idea what you are talking about.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:26:29 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
He is from that fucked up Liberal state of Colorado, what do you expect?

Damn looks like you do not have a lot of room to talk judging by your west coast address!

Colorado makes California look very normal and Conservative.
They have a bunch of absolute nut jobs there.
OK I'll admit many of them moved there from California.

are you on crack? give me some examples. You Mr. or MRS. Poink are the only example I need to give. If you are an example of what Colorado is producing the gene pool needs some chlorine quickly.

your state is like nero playing the fiddle as rome burned. the pressing issues that get passed there are: the banning of foie gras (duck liver patte), banning picking weeds by hand, banning toy guns, banning firearms that were never used in a crime before, attempting to give illegals driver's licenses, etc, etc, etc, etc.

you have no idea what you are talking about.

logic and reason were never your strong points, huh? product of a public school education, i assume.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:30:09 PM EDT

[#44]

Anybody who advocates this boy be charged with a felony for shooting a FUCKING DOG after it twice bit his father and caused him great physical harm is an unmitigated idiot.

Obviously some people have no clue how big, aggressive, and dangerous some "puppies" can be and that animals never truly lose their animal instinct no matter how well trained or "domesticated" they are.

I reiterate, anyone who thinks this boy committed any sort of crime is an idiot, especially if they want tax money to be used to put him on trial.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:30:23 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

the father is the stupid asshole who got himself in that situation. if his father wasnt such a moron, he would have never been put in that situation to begin with.

there are a million ways to stop dogs fighting without sticking your hand between the two or pulling a gun.

Guessing you missed this part...

"the man corrected his dog by pulling on the leash. The Akita turned and bit him on the forearm, severly."

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:35:06 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
he responded correctly by shooting a puppy in the head with a .45?

It was attacking his father.

it's a puppy for christ sake. i have been bitten by my dog, but i don't get the urge to whip out the USP and start putting lead in its brain. that's retarded.

i hope he gets charged with a felony.

THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST STUPID STATEMENTS I'VE EVER HEARD IT'S A FUCKING DOG ATTACKING IT'S OWNER. HIS SON WAS RIGHT TO SHOOT IT.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:40:29 PM EDT

[#47]

logic and reason were never your strong points, huh? product of a public school education, i assume.

Misinterpreting the information, jumping to conclusions, passing judgement on people and making insulting remarks to the rest of the board don't pass for logic and reason around here, poink, get a clue.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:43:58 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
logic and reason were never your strong points, huh? product of a public school education, i assume.

Misinterpreting the information, jumping to conclusions, passing judgement on people and making insulting remarks to the rest of the board don't pass for logic and reason around here, poink, get a clue.

who is jumping to conclusions? this is off a story, told second-hand, that has yet to even be verified. i have owned MANY dogs, and i have yet to have one bite my arm for tugging on it's leash - probably because my arm is nowhere near it's mouth. maybe the father was an oompa-loompa.

passing judgement on people? so you can't give your opinions on the actions of others and make remarks about them? uh - ok.

insulting remarks to the rest of the board? where do you get that?

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:50:24 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So what kind of a brain-blister does it take to make a person say "Well, Akitas/Chows/Canaria Presos/Whatever have a record of ungovernability and inexpicable violence, but I will buy one anyway?" I have never understood that crap.

I wouldn't lump Akita's in with Pits and Rotts....many own Akitas because they are great outdoor dogs...they can hike anywhere, handle the freezing cold months on end and are just great dogs to do stuff with in general for someone who is active. I'd be willing to say the Akita might be the best dog for all around toughness and outdoor survival.

I own a Harlequin Aikita with the same coloration as yours.

At three he weighed a little over 130 (bit off his peak now at 115). He's a big, smart, sweet, loyal, dog that I would trust with my life. He's very much a member of my family and I love him.

That being said; if he ever attacked another member of my family, I would put him down in a heartbeat. He's quite capable of killing a full grown man... Even at less than a year old, he was a force to be reckoned with.

Posted: 9/26/2004 9:52:05 PM EDT

[#50]

Why are you guys even argueing with this idiot troll?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Man shoots Akita in So Cal (Page 1 of 2)

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